Anand Karaj At 3 Pm ?

[Balait_da_Sher]

I would probably say that i dont consider my self to belong to any community but sikhi. Yes i am a bhatra by caste but i moved to uk from india and it is a different way of living there. In india you would not be able to tell bhatras apart from other castes because there is no such thing over there like segregation at wedding parties, meat in the gurdwara.

My post reflects me just writing a reply while at work where i do not tend to spend too much time thinking every choice of words.

[KEERPA]

The Lavan are written in Raag Sohee, which should ideally be sung between the hours of 9am - 12pm.

We also seem to do Asa di Vaar at 6am to 8-9am etc? Why does that slide by but Sohee Raag for Anand Karaaj not workout?

*edited*

[singh763173]

As someone from bhatra community i can provide you with facts rather than hearsay. Firstly, in practically every wedding that i have gone in my community women have made up more than half of the barat. There is no such thing as bhatra women arent allowed to do this etc. The only thing i have seen is that women tend to party separate from men. So at the reception the hall is usually divided into two portions, one for men and other for women (would you want your family member dancing with other drunken baratis?). This is the only segregation at wedding. At gurdwara there is the usual divide, women on the left, men on the right.

I just dont know how you can conclude from a hindu sounding name that sikhi in bhatra community is a male thing.

So a typical Bhatra wedding is no different than any other caste in punjabi culture. Usually there are atleast 4 - 5 coaches. 3 ish for women and 2 for men. Bhatra barats (janj not jang) are ALWAYS late. so even though the card says the anand karaj will be at 3pm. You can easily expect it to be between 5pm - 6pm. There is NO superstition behind this. Its just that barats are always late in my community.

Finally about the english breakfast, serving meat in the gurdwara langar hall. This was done in the past and may still be carried out at some Bhatra gurdwaras but as far as i know, there has been a major reform in my community regarding this and all the gurdwares i know about have stopped serving meat. I would suggest that everyone who gets invited to weddings where they serve meat in the gurdwara raise the alarm and name and shame such gurdwaras.

I was just about to write pretty much the same thing as Balait Veer Ji.

Theres been alot been said about Bhatre recently but not enough being said on how we can all get together and deal with the core issues of the Panth.

Once the core issues are dealt with everything else will follow suit.

[S1ngh]

Anand Karaj having that late is getting very common in all sikh based weddings. Go to India and attend any wedding and you will see how late the janj/barat turns out.. They are doing milney @ 2ish pm dude..

[West London Singh]

I pretty much disagree with everything thats been said by balait da sher and the poster above.

It might be common for weddings to be performed late afternoon and evenings among the bhatra community in India but it certainly isn't something that would ever be tolerated by the jatt sikh community both in India and abroad. Remember, we're not talking about the reception and other side meaningless ceremonies ; We are talking about the actual anand karaj. Never in my life heard the term 'janj' before yesterday, but even in other sikh communities the bharat is nearly always late.....but no other community deliberately sets out to have the anand karaj as late as possible and is so proud of it even advertises the fact on the wedding invitation card.

Secondly, I fail to see why bhatra such as balait da sher think its perfectly normal in sikhi for men and women to be totally seperated and segregated.Leaving aside the fact that it certainly should not occur in social gathering settings, even from the point of the gurdwara my wife, myself and my child always make a point of sitting together. In every village gurdwara in Punjab as well as Harmindar Sahib itself there is NO segregation.

And that segregation is the main thought I came away with at the weekend. Fropm what I saw, in that community, sikhi is seen as purely a male thing, and even then the only requirement is for the male to wear a pagh.

The women, if I'm totally honest, made me feel like I had wandered into a gypsy convention by mistake. I had never seen so much tacky jewellery. As a sikh, I have been to muslim Punjabi and Hindu Punjabi weddings and felt more at home. These bhatras are sikhs......But not as we know it Jim.

[Amrit]

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Ki fateh!

Is this post really about the issue of an anand karaj at 3pm or is it about bhatre VS Jatt?

Vaheguru Jee Ka Khalsa Vaheguru Jee Ki fateh!

[singh763173]

You talk about segregation of women and men in the Bhatra community - but you are clearly segerating "Bhatre Sikhs" and "Jatt Sikhs" in your above post? Whats the difference between a "Jatt Sikh" and a "Bhatra Sikh"? or maybe even a "Tharkan Sikh" etc? Only one has the ability and the temperament to be a GurSikh? I think not. This is the biggest flaw in our Panth - Caste bashing. I was born a Sikh and i will leave this earth Sikh.

If you thought the situation was so distressing, why did you not consult a leading commitee member of the GuruGhar in question? Or maybe even a member of the "Community" in question? But instead you come online and tell everyone else about your distress? Its more proactive to deal with these issues head on and not wait X amount of days after the situation you've been placed in has finished.

Petty issues such as where men and women choose where and how to sit are what are destroying the Panth. If we carry on as we are right now - how long do you think Sikhi will survive? A huge number of our youth already have little or no knowledge about Sikh History.

Its up to us afterall to better the Panth afterall, no? To better educate OURSELVES and THEN OTHERS isnt a key aspect within Sikhi, no?

My family have never had Anand Karaj after noon but because a select few does then the whole Bhatra community are to be blamed?

Get up and help the Panth rather than posting your bad experiences online. Make a difference. If You and I dont do it who will? Nobody.

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa

Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Papi]

It might be common for weddings to be performed late afternoon and evenings among the bhatra community in India but it certainly isn't something that would ever be tolerated by the jatt sikh community both in India and abroad

That pretty much sums up your level of thinking :rolleyes:

Never in my life heard the term 'janj' before yesterday

You need to get out more son!

[Balait_da_Sher]

Never in my life heard the term 'janj' before yesterday, but even in other sikh communities the bharat is nearly always late.....but no other community deliberately sets out to have the anand karaj as late as possible and is so proud of it even advertises the fact on the wedding invitation card.

Secondly, I fail to see why bhatra such as balait da sher think its perfectly normal in sikhi for men and women to be totally seperated and segregated.

Fropm what I saw, in that community, sikhi is seen as purely a male thing, and even then the only requirement is for the male to wear a pagh.

These bhatras are sikhs......But not as we know it Jim.

These bhatres, that bhatra no wonder people confine themselves to their own caste and the panth is in the situation it is in.

Janj is the correct way of saying barat. Barat is actually hindi.

What makes you think bhatra community deliberatly sets out to have anand karaj late? How is mention of the time on the card an advertisement which the sender is proud off?

Look i tried to answer your questions honestly so that you can get a better understanding of Bhatre customs. In my wedding, both men and women danced together. Most gurdwaras in the west have women and men separate at the gurdwara. Only in india you have family members sit together. My family and everyone i know follows this way when in uk and when in india. In india families sit together in Gurdwaras.

"These bhatras are sikhs".... just like every other sikh. We have many flaws but who doesnt?

[Amrit]

Sounds like your on a crusade. and the fact that you seem to prefer muslim Punjabi and Hindu Punjabi sums you up perfectly.