Thaali In Aarti?

[gurmzz]

is having a thaali in aarti allowed in sikhism? im just confusedd cuz i saw a vid of hazoor sahib and they were holding a thaali(mind u its 2006) so it cud have changed..thx

WJKK WJKFF

[jassa]

you mean like this

Its puratan mareyada and it will never change till sikhi remains on this earth ...

HATERZ gona HATE

[aman100]

you mean like this

Its puratan mareyada and it will never change till sikhi remains on this earth ...

HATERZ gona HATE

I am really sorry for u if u feel like these.

we r not haters, we don't symbolize this.

it will be better if u see and understand the meaning of aarti.

it tells abt how the stars,the clouds, the moon, the flowers perhaps the whole universe is doing aarti of god.

So why take a thaali and do the unrealistic aarti.

Sikhism in itself a great path towards God. It does not need to inculcate meaningless rituals from toher relegions.

you mean like this

Its puratan mareyada and it will never change till sikhi remains on this earth ...

HATERZ gona HATE

I am really sorry for u if u feel like these.

we r not haters, we don't symbolize this.

it will be better if u see and understand the meaning of aarti.

it tells abt how the stars,the clouds, the moon, the flowers perhaps the whole universe is doing aarti of god.

So why take a thaali and do the unrealistic aarti.

Sikhism in itself a great path towards God. It does not need to inculcate meaningless rituals from other relegions.

you mean like this

Its puratan mareyada and it will never change till sikhi remains on this earth ...

HATERZ gona HATE

I am really sorry for u if u feel like these.

we r not haters, we don't symbolize this.

it will be better if u see and understand the meaning of aarti.

it tells abt how the stars,the clouds, the moon, the flowers perhaps the whole universe is doing aarti of god.

So why take a thaali and do the unrealistic aarti.

Sikhism in itself a great path towards God. It does not need to inculcate meaningless rituals from other relegions.

[vikramjitsingh]

Fateh parwaan karro jiyo,

I look at it this way..... without a doubt Guru Nanak Sahib's Aarti Sahib 'gagan' is the thaal. Hazur Sahib comes in Maharashtra and some Hindu customs have remained.

In Hazur Sahib they say they follow the real Maryada. In Punjab they say the Maryada followed in Hazur Sahib is Brahminical. If the Aarti Sahib conducted in Punjab and Hazur Sahib are put to the test of Guru Nanak Sahib's Aarti then the Aarti Sahib in which the Ragi Jatha just recites the Aarti Sahib stands up to the test.

I recall in Bangla Sahub during the Arti when Ragi Jahta recited 'phoolan ki barkha karaawe', the Gyani ji sitting in the Taaba used to shower petals on Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji. This practice was discontinued.

Guru Nanak Sahib Ji's Aarti Sahib clearly states that nature itself has been and will continue doing Waheguru ji's Arti.

Bandaa bhulanhaar hai teh Daata bakshanhaar

[SaRpAnCh]

Its is not part of Sikhism as Gurus rejected this kind of aarti sznd said the whole universe ie stars do aarti of akaal,this is manmat not gurmat if some of you want to call it 'puratan maryada' you can but that does not change the fact that it is contrary to gurmat otherwise

Sri Akal Thakt Sahib would also do this Bipran Ki Reet type diva lighting thing.

[jassa]

There is concept of nirgun and sargun saroop of akal purkh ... nirgun sroop of akal purkh is akalpurkh himself ... guru nanak sahib said ek ong kar ( nirgun ) yet he placed his jyot in guru angad sahib ( sargun sroop ) ... why do you go and do matha teek in front of guru sahib why not in the opposite direction ... isnt guru granth sahib present every where ... the person who is very much clear about nirgun and sargun sroops of akal purkh understands the concept of aarti ... people always tend to quote only 1 shabad from whole aarti which contains many more shabads from sri guru granth sahib and dasam granth sahib ... and has the aarti of bhot sroops of akalpurkh ...

aarti starts with aarti of akalpurkh nirgun sroop which is every where and then it talks about aarti of satguru sri guru granth sahib ... and it clearly says i do your aarti by playing sankhs and there will be rain of flowers which is clearly written ... yet if some one follows it its brhamnwad ... we are reading it but performing it is brhmanwad ... cool ...

Hazur Sahib comes in Maharashtra and some Hindu customs have remained.

Infact this mareyada was follwed at all takth sahibs before the creation of sgpc ... Once takth kesgarh sahib was famous for its aarti when it came under hindu influence ??? very big thaals of guru gobind singh jis time were used to do the aarti as per taught by guru sahib themself ... its still followed in nihang singh seva panthis and nirmale sampardavas ... i dont know how and when hindu customs penetrated them ... but i do know when christen forces penetrated sikhi and declared everything followed as brhamnvad and that year was 1920 ...

Beej taan reh janda chahe ek sampardach hi reh jaye ... beej nahi kadde khatam hunda ...

[Only five]

There is concept of nirgun and sargun saroop of akal purkh ... nirgun sroop of akal purkh is akalpurkh himself ... guru nanak sahib said ek ong kar ( nirgun ) yet he placed his jyot in guru angad sahib ( sargun sroop ) ... why do you go and do matha teek in front of guru sahib why not in the opposite direction ... isnt guru granth sahib present every where ... the person who is very much clear about nirgun and sargun sroops of akal purkh understands the concept of aarti ... people always tend to quote only 1 shabad from whole aarti which contains many more shabads from sri guru granth sahib and dasam granth sahib ... and has the aarti of bhot sroops of akalpurkh ...

aarti starts with aarti of akalpurkh nirgun sroop which is every where and then it talks about aarti of satguru sri guru granth sahib ... and it clearly says i do your aarti by playing sankhs and there will be rain of flowers which is clearly written ... yet if some one follows it its brhamnwad ... we are reading it but performing it is brhmanwad ... cool ...

Very true, Aarti is no ritual, when done with devotion. Guru Sahib did say Aarti of stone idols is a ritual. Stone are dead, they can't offer no spiritual wisdom. You can do Aarti for this stone idol with devotion and still it won't be anything. There is a shabad, know I forget exactly which ang sung, but it says, what is the difference between your stone idol to any other stone.

Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is one of a kind. The wisdom attained from Guru Sahib is alive. Gurbani wakes up the everyday stone humans by just listen to Guru Sahib once. Showing your respect and love to Guru Sahib is no show, it's no ritual. If you call Guru Sahib just a book and dead, then think about exactly what state you are in yourself. Just because you can walk around and see you think you are alive.

How many here celebrate their birthdays. How many love it when others praise them. Are these rituals. Your dead and yet you want to be praised and celebrated. You want others to light candles on your birthday cake and celebrate your stone image. Who is really doing Aarti of dead stones and is just a ritual?

[vikramjitsingh]

Fateh parwaan karro jiyo,

01. Waheguruji is everywhere yet we take off our shoes when we go into Guru Ghar. Why don't we walk barefoot everywhere?

02. My humble request is put the 'thaali' Aarti to the test of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji's Aarti Sahib. How can one say gagan is thaal and then use a thaal for Aarti Sahib.

03. Nanded comes in Maharashtra and Aarti is very common there.

04. Maybe Aarti was done till the Panth realized that it was wrong to use thaali when Guruji has said that gagan is the thaali. I don't think there is proof that thalis were used during Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time. There could be a school of thought that says this but there is no proof.

I understand that when Rehtanamas were vetted by the Committee appointed by Guru Panth for the Rehat Maryada all the Maryadas were put to the test of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Gurus Bani was the kasvati or touchstone) and only those Rehats that stood up to the test of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji were mandated. That is why certain Rehats for women were not accepted.

All I say is if Guruji said that gagan is thaali then why are we using a thaali?

Guru Rakha

[Jai Tegang!]

^^^

Guruji also calls air the cosmic 'chaur'. Should we also stop using chaur sahib then?

Same with flowers, dhoop. Yet we have examples from Gur-Ithihaas of Guruji giving dhoop to their kesh, and of Mataji Sundar Kaur ji presenting Guruji with a flower garland evey morning as part of their nitnem seva.

Sangat ji don't just read English translations and start coming up your own conclusions of what Gurbani Arths are.

Keep a humble approach and go to those who are imbued in Gurbani to understand better. Don't trust those who study Gurbani purely with academic intentions, they will not understand the essence of Dhur-Ki-Bani.

[Only five]

Fateh parwaan karro jiyo,

01. Waheguruji is everywhere yet we take off our shoes when we go into Guru Ghar. Why don't we walk barefoot everywhere?

I believe Jassa already answered this question. Here it is again. "There is concept of nirgun and sargun saroop of akal purkh ... nirgun sroop of akal purkh is akalpurkh himself ... guru nanak sahib said ek ong kar ( nirgun ) yet he placed his jyot in guru angad sahib ( sargun sroop ) ... why do you go and do matha teek in front of guru sahib why not in the opposite direction ... isnt guru granth sahib present every where ... the person who is very much clear about nirgun and sargun sroops of akal purkh understands the concept of aarti"

When you are in presence of Guru Sahib, the sargun saroop is present. This requires the inner eye to be spiritual lit and awake. For some all they see is a book covered with cloth, nice decorations and a person reading from it. And if they see Aarti performed of Guru Sahib they are even more digusted. People judge on what they know.

02. My humble request is put the 'thaali' Aarti to the test of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji's Aarti Sahib. How can one say gagan is thaal and then use a thaal for Aarti Sahib.

Vikramjit, explain why it can't. It pass the test with flying colors.

03. Nanded comes in Maharashtra and Aarti is very common there.

With all due respect, I believe its Hindu phobia that creates this tension.

04. Maybe Aarti was done till the Panth realized that it was wrong to use thaali when Guruji has said that gagan is the thaali. I don't think there is proof that thalis were used during Guru Gobind Singh Ji's time. There could be a school of thought that says this but there is no proof.

Your going on something that isn't true fact and then coming to a conclusion. First prove that thaali in sargun saroop doesn't fit and then your conclusion can become true.

I understand that when Rehtanamas were vetted by the Committee appointed by Guru Panth for the Rehat Maryada all the Maryadas were put to the test of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji (Gurus Bani was the kasvati or touchstone) and only those Rehats that stood up to the test of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji were mandated. That is why certain Rehats for women were not accepted.

All I say is if Guruji said that gagan is thaali then why are we using a thaali?

Guru Rakha

If Gurbani specifically and so clearly says Aarti with devotion is a ritual, then it should be just as easy to present the shabad. Second time in a matter of a month this discussion is taking place on Aarti and not one Shabad is presented against it.