**avtaar Purbh And Barsi Updates**

[khalistan_zindabaad]

Arambh Sri Akhand Paat Sahib 2day 5pm

Arambh Sri Chaupai Sahib 48 hour jaap 5pm

Accomodation is provided.

Remember the taksal was started from guru sahib jee, just because the singhs remain quiet on certain points, i dsnt mean they will always, if anyone has any issues on the day, they will get resolved swiftly.

[Gurvah]

Waheguru

[butter]

ive removed my post (it would me nice if gurvah cud remove it aswell), i'm sorry if i offended anyone

[Tony]

Fateh . . . .

Firstly I respect Sri Guru Granth Sahib and still learning the first steps of Sikhi.

However from a practical prospective:

- Why is that we Sikhs do so many akhand paths now a days where as this wasnt a way of doing path till abt 150 years ago.

- Why is that the Prakash of Sri Dasam Granth done at the same level of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

- Why is that there is so much dilution of the Dasam Granth and we are all aware that it is not a complete reflection of what was originally written

- Is it not that the powers to be are trying to focus the minds of the sikhs from there root beleif and faith.

- Did we used to have the 5 banis in the amrit vela before 1925, before the origin of SGSS.

There is a lot of focus on Dasam Granth sahib today. Why? Are we all done with what we already have.

In the near future is the focus going to be to have 100 sakhi, or Suraj parkash or others to be given the same stature as Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Sikhs need to wake up, and use their brains to Think. Why is it that there are so many Gutkas where it clearly states of donig so much path of a shabad (mantar) will provide with x and z.

"Bande Khoj Dil har roj"

Wake up, Wake up and Wake up. The british started diluting the sikh religion and followed by the others. And now we dont need any external parties, we the SIKHS are pretty capable of screwing our own faith.

Fath . . . . .

[Inder Singh]

Firstly I respect Sri Guru Granth Sahib and still learning the first steps of Sikhi.

Writings of all Gurus are to be respected.

- Why is that we Sikhs do so many akhand paths now a days where as this wasnt a way of doing path till abt 150 years ago.

Why is Dasam Granth sahibnot in parkash now when it was in parkash all the time till 1944. That is the question i am asking you.

- Why is that the Prakash of Sri Dasam Granth done at the same level of Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

Why it should not be done when sikhs already know SGGS is elder brother and Dasam Granth sahib is younger brother. Two brothers live in same house.

-

Why is that there is so much dilution of the Dasam Granth and we are all aware that it is not a complete reflection of what was originally written

This is mischief laden question and is far from reality. There is no dilution.Earlier you were writing that it was not all guru sahib's writing.

-

Is it not that the powers to be are trying to focus the minds of the sikhs from there root beleif and faith.

Powers that are inimical to sikhi are attacking dasam Granth sahib as it gives us our Amrit sanchar, nitnem banis and ardas. Their main attack is to make sikhs without Amrit.

- Did we used to have the 5 banis in the amrit vela before 1925, before the origin of SGSS.

This is another nonsense question. Yes we know that sikh literature of that period testify that. Read sikh literaure before indulging in propaganda here.

In the near future is the focus going to be to have 100 sakhi, or Suraj parkash or others to be given the same stature as Sri Guru Granth Sahib.

All sikh literature will be focussed upon and Suraj parkash is an accepted granth for katha.

Sikhs need to wake up, and use their brains to Think. Why is it that there are so many Gutkas where it clearly states of donig so much path of a shabad (mantar) will provide with x and z.

Sikhs need to be beware of anti sikh agents who are here to carry out anti sikh propaganda.

Wake up, Wake up and Wake up. The british started diluting the sikh religion and followed by the others. And now we dont need any external parties, we the SIKHS are pretty capable of screwing our own faith.

british did not dilute sikh religion. They did not interfere in sikh religion much.The real interference started after 1947 and accelerated after 1984.

Propaganda against Dasam Granth , a scripture of khalsa, is a part of that with a view that sikhs shorn of their identity will face extinction in due course of time.

Mind it any slander of dasam granth is prohibited on sikh sangat.If you do not refrain it will be reported to Admin.You are doing bukwas since yesterday.

[Tony]

Inder Singh jeo,

Fateh.... perhaphs you wld care to shed some light on the following:

- I am unsure if you have read Sri Dasam Granth and are well versed in its writings. Payaare jeo would you care to shed some light over the writings which are in Dasam Granth Sahib. I am not referring to all of Dasam Granth Sahib, I am only referring to the objective sections. Esp in the Dasam Granth Berr which is hand written and is in parkash in Hazzor sahib. Would you care to explain that our Guru would be capable of writing about non relgious related matter in it. Appreciate your explanation.

- I am not born prior to 1944, and can only go by what the proof is provided by the texture / historical evidence.

Only a very few (VERY FEW as in 2/3/4) Gurudwara's had the prakash of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib prior to 1944.

As Hazoor Sahib was under the banner of Mahants . . . . . I dont need to go into the details. You are a well informed and read person.

- I am not against Dasam Granth Sahib, but the question here is:

During his last week, when Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji, asked for the Path to be done from Guru Granth Sahib, why did he not do a parkash of Sri Dasam Granth next to Sri Guru Granth Sahib? And why did he ORDERED all sikhs to have this as there own going GURU and NO ONE ELSE.

Two brothers do live in the same house, but the level of respect provided to the Elder brother is somewhat different from what is provided to the younger sibling.

- Again you claim that there is no dilution in Sri Dasam Granth Sahib. Pls refer to my first point, I seek guidance from you to explain if you believe that our Guru's would write about chritars in Dasam Granth.

"Powers that are inimical to sikhi are attacking dasam Granth sahib as it gives us our Amrit sanchar, nitnem banis and ardas. Their main attack is to make sikhs without Amrit. " I somewhat agree with you but not whole of it. See points above.

- My question regarding 5 Bani's is not a nonsense question. It is rather informative. Similar to that any Gutka written prior to 1925 ish -in the ardas states 4 Takhat, does not contain any reference to Gurudwaras in Pakistan and more. Pls read our history and the difference in Takhats maryada esp in the Bani's - there is no reference prior to 1925. Not that I can find any.

- You did not answer my question re Akhand Path Sahib's. Why is there so much need for these. Why are we now doing Akhand Path of Dasam Granth Sahib. When I queried I was informed that the recent events leading to Dasam Granth Akhand Path - the only verses which will read out are the approved ones. Vow how and who the F**K gave you the authority to do so from a Granth that you already consider approved. So it that you now admit that the Dasam Granth has been diluted???? ?

So each Gurudwara doing 10/12 Akahnad paths every weekend - is it not just a revenue stream. Do they not believe in any of the other Hukamnama than what their own Akhand Path berr is from. This is another ritual which we should not have been in the first place. Why were the Bunga's taken down from Amritsar however almost every Gurudwara in UK has now got multiple Bungas. Appreciate your explanation with historcal references.

- My reference to other respected scriptures was = Are you now looking to respect these at the same level as SGGS

"Sikhs need to be beware of anti sikh agents who are here to carry out anti sikh propaganda." - totally agree.

- How else did the Sikh religion was diluted if British didnt do it. They started it and we are now shafting ourselves with it. The Caste system came from British - Jats, Ramgarihas came from British through the ARMY system. There are 276 approved Sikh Gurudwaras in UK, for a population of approx 600- 700,000 sikhs. That is one Gurudawara per 2500 sikhs which equates to approx 1 gurdwara per 500/600 families. Voooowwww. these are the registerd figures. Then there are unregisterd ones which operate out of general household. There are officialy over 2600 registered Sikh Charities in UK. Assuming that the whole family goes to Gurudwara. Else the figures can be well lower.

Of course, we are well capable of shafting our own selves. And do not need any other to do so. The interference was accelerated by our own lack of control and strength after 1947 and 1984.

- I agree with your point Dasam Granth is a sikh scripture it is not our Guru. Pls dont give it the same status as our Guru. The future Generations will be so confused.

Payarae jeeo I look forward to your explanation and discussion on the above raised points.

Fateh.

"Mind it any slander of dasam granth is prohibited on sikh sangat.If you do not refrain it will be reported to Admin.You are doing bukwas since yesterday"

I did not slander anyone.

If you are uncapable of a debate or dont have the answers just admit it. No point in threats over a chat site.

oh oh oh I am well scared now ;-)

[Inder Singh]

Tony

Debate is done with a person who ahs some basic knowledge of topic. But you are a layman as for Dasam Granth is concerned.

Charitropakhayan is writng of Guru sahib.There is internal evidence in Dasam Granth sahib.The purpose is to caution khalsa aboutmoral pitfalls.

Doing parkash of dasam granth is not to bring it to same level as SGGS ji.Below is a picture of Dasam Granth parkash during Maharaja Ranjit singh's time.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib.

(A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection)

Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm's work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18^th century .

Guru-mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs. When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab. (pages. 120-123) ________________________

*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836)

Unquote

Are you telling us that Ajkali Phoola singh ji did not know about Gurmat.He would have sent anyone to hell if he tried to present a suspect scripture.

Read Guru kian sakhiana nd Bhai jaita ji's granth to know what banis were read in 1699 before doing bukwas here.

[Inder Singh]

"The revered mother asked Bhai Kirpa Ram, ‘What Guru ji is doing?’ He said, ‘Revered mother’, Guru ji is preparing ambrosial nectar of the double-edged broadsword for administering it to the Sikhs.’ The revered mother was deeply moved on hearing this. She instantly came to Guru’s presence with a lawful of patasas. Paying at first her obeisance to Guru ji, she poured the patasas from her lap into that bowl. The all-knowing Guru ji did not look at her and continued with his recitation of Jap ji with full concentration. After reciting the sacred compositions of Jap ji, Jaap Sahib, Sawayyas and Chaupai, he recited Anand Sahib. When the ambrosial elixir became ready, he stood up and performed the Ardas. Concluding it with the prayer; he called out Fateh, and raised aloud the spirited chant of Sat Sri Akal.

This too is almost a complete statement on the above aspect of the event, described in a simple, systematic, explicit and plausible way, which we miss in other available contemporary - or near-contemporary - accounts, including the works mentioned above. It is very useful and encouraging to note that the basic elements of the process of the preparation of the nectar and its administration, as mentioned by Kaushish, accords in their basic formation with what is outlined in the Sikh Rehat Maryada approved in 1945 by the Shiromani Gurdwara Prabandhak Committee, Amritsar, and which are in actual practice uptil now, that is more than two hundred years after the completion of the text of Guru Kian Sakhian by Bhai Sarup Singh Kaushish.

from: Creation Of Khalsa as Described by Bhat Sarup singh Kaushish

Reproduced by Dr harnam singh shan

[Inder Singh]

Read this thread before raising elemenatry questions