Changing The Basics Of The Sikh Faith

[BhForce]

There was an autobiography written by Bhai Mani Singh, a granthi of Darbar Sahib in the 20th century, in which he says he was asked:

If Guru Gobind Singh Ji changed 9 Gurus hukum and gave command for kakkars, and

If today Khalsa Panth is Guru, then

Can we change the hukum for kakkars?

The person doing the asking said he thought it would be good not to have hukum for kakkars in today's world.

My question:

1. Has anybody read this book, and what response did Bhai Mani Singh give?

2. What do you think? Can we change the basics of the Sikh faith?

My comments:

I think we are not at the level of Guru Gobind Singh Ji. To think that we are worthy is basically deluding ourselves. Secondly, just sticking with what Guru Gobind Singh Ji commanded seems like the best option. Anything else seems like second-guessing the Satguru.

[K. SINGH DEEP]

Khalsa Panth ,in the presence of GURU GRANTH SAHIB ji,is

is the body of GURU where as SOUL of the body is GURU GRANTRH

SAHIB JI. And without soul body is dead and without life.

As such any decision taken in the light of GURBANI in the

presence of GURU GRANTH SAHIB by the KHALSA PANTH can be

TERMED as GURU KA HUKAM , but it is must that the decision

taken must be undisputed and if there is any dispute in the

Panth regarding same, the decision will be termed as view but

not a decision or Hukam.

Bhul chuk kima WJKK WJKF

[BhForce]

In the language of law, this is called "plenary power". I.e., power to do anything.

So, does Khalsa have plenary power or limited power?

Certainly it has the power to use the Guru-jugti and initiate people into the faith by giving dikhia and Gurmantar.

But does it have the power to change basic rehit or fundamentals?

The Akal Takhat Jathedars have said many times that the Akal Takhat does not have the power to create rehit maryada, only to enforce it. I think that is a wise view.

One of the problems I see with plenary power, is where do you stop? Will it be OK to completely refashion Sikhi into something else, such as Vedic dharam or Islamic faith, or Christian faith?

it is must that the decision

taken must be undisputed

That's a good rule, to an extent. I fear that the power of the Guru could be misused to alter even the parameters in which the power of the Guru is supposed to be wielded.

[jassa]

I think its already changed ... out of five kakkars we already have kesh keski and kamarkasa(neeldhari amrit sanchars) and out of four kurehat we already have dont eat halal or dont eat maas ... :huh: ...

[BhForce]

I think its already changed ... out of five kakkars we already have kesh keski and kamarkasa(neeldhari amrit sanchars) and out of four kurehat we already have dont eat halal or dont eat maas ... :huh: ...

Hmm, does anyone have any experience with a group directly claiming that they have the power to change Guru Gobind Singh ji's hukums?

I think most people that don't eat meat claim that kutha means "meat" instead of claiming that they have the right to change the kutha prohibition to a general meat prohibition.

Same for keski: any groups claiming that they have the power to change a kakkar?

Kamarkassa: That's a new one on me. Do they claim that Guru Gobind Singh ji mandated kamarkassa as a kakkar, or that they are changing Guru's hukums?

[jassa]

well everyone has their stories and hukamnamas etc they never claim they are changing mareyada but their mareyada is orignal and real ... they will not say abc is kakkar because its better or and stuff instead they say its from guru gobind singh ji ... same with kutha those groups who promote vegis in their amritsanchar dont use word kutha they use word maas and on the other hand those who promote non veg use the word kutha ...

if we look closely not one but many mareyadas have changed with time

starting from parkash

some groups claim there cant be amritsanchar without the parkash of sri dasam granth and others think there should only be parkash of sroops with continous writing (ladivaar)

then prepration of amrit

every group has different length

then the name of khalsa mata

come group says its sahib devan others sahib kaur

then rehat mareyada

no of banis to be read in morning 3 or 5 and length

length of mool mantra

5 kakar

kesh kanga kirpan kashera kadda

keski kanga kirpan kashera kadda

kesh kanga kamarkassa kashera kadda

4 kuritan

cutting hair

eating halal

using tambacu

relations outside marriage

cutting hair

eating maas

using tambacu

relations outside marriage

5 groups not to have kudi and roti di sanj with

meenia

masandiye

ramriye

kudimar

ladimar

there was a meeting at akaltakth sahib for days where all sant samaj takths sikhs etc took part to add nirankaris to this list but the decision was taken not to add but yet few groups had made there coustom made lists of them to

after the amritsanchar is done then come parikarma of guru sahib

some groups do it clockwise

some groups do it anticlockwise

it would not be a false to say that there is 4 or 5 or even more types of khande bate di paul in sikhs today its upto us we want to accept it or want to live in our dream world and the question that if punj peyare can change the mareyada its already done a number of times without a doubt ... and everyone claims its from guru gobind singh ji ...

[BhForce]

That's a pretty comprehensive list of differences in the panth. Hopefully we will all come together as one someday. (And before that day, at least live and let live with each other.)

they will not say abc is kakkar because its better or and stuff instead they say its from guru gobind singh ji ...

... and everyone claims its from guru gobind singh ji ...

Well, at least they claim it's from Guru Sahib. As long as a person accepts that only Guru Gobind Singh Ji has the power the create the basic rehit, we can go to that person and say, "Guru Sahib said such-and-such, so you should follow it."

If, on the other hand, a person outright says "Guru Sahib did one thing, and now we in our infinite wisdom are going to do something else", there's nothing really you can say to that person.

Otherwise, there are plenty of people who say "Sikhi would be the #1 faith if only we didn't have to keep hair and kakkars." Just as Ragi Darshan Singh did take amrit at some point, he can get 4 more like himself, and they could declare a "new Sikhi".

[Inder Singh]

Khalsa panth has no power to change rules or rehat that was stipulated by our Gurus.

Anything done by our Gurus can not be changed. That is manmat.

For example parkash of SGGS ji was done by our gurus.It cann't be undoe even though small section want it to be undone.

[chatanga]

That's a pretty comprehensive list of differences in the panth. Hopefully we will all come together as one someday. (And before that day, at least live and let live with each other.)

that should be the new year motto, especially for young sikhs worldwide.