Dusshera

[sikhreality]

Jvala singh ji

No. He said that Hindus considered Durga as shakti. Here you are not being honest and twisting things.Sikhs are not Hindus as Baba ji said that sikhs consider kirpan as shakti of waheguru.

Did you even listen to the Katha? Please listen again, maybe I will transcribe it for you, you seem to be only hearing what you want. Baba Inderjit Singh Ji also noted how Mata Sahib Devan [Kaur] was an avatar of Chandi, I am sure you missed that again because it doesn't follow in with your beliefs. BTW that is a common belief within the Nihung Singhs.

In that " ath devi ji ki ustat" Maharaj has defined devi as akal purakh and not any deity.

That is your interpretation and many others might agree, which is fine. I also agree, although I see it in a different way, I believe, as I have been taught, that Nirguna Vahiguru created Shakti, and from that same Shakti a form was created who we call Chandi/Durga etc. We are not far off in interpretation.

Here either you are not aware of Dasam Granth or you are making up false stories. The passaage you have given is from Krishna avtar. Durga has no business to be there in krishna avtar as it is avatr of vishnu.They are absolutley different belief systems.

It is not translation of purana in toto. Read purana before writing this.I have gone through puranas to go to roots. Maharaj has left out all pasages of Purana that are in praise of Durga. This is applicable to Chandi charitras.

Krishna avtar is from Bhagvat Purana tenth chapter. It is also not transaltion in toto.Major part of krishna avatar is "War management" where kharag singh fights with Krishna and puts him down under his foot by pulling from his hair. That whole section is not from purana.It is written new by Guru sahib and forms major part of krishna avtar. Please do not make false stories.

I do not believe in that philosophy that Maharaj just translated Purans without believing in them, I mentioned that stream of thought as it was held by Kulbir Singh Ji of Tapoban Sahib. Do not misquote me.

I was showing the different streams of thought, and provided my own please read it over again. Look at this link here, http://gurmatbibek.c...orum/read.php?3,4271 Bhai Kulbir Singh Ji says that this is most probably a translated passage from a Puran and not Gurmat. However I disagree with it not being Gurmat.

I have provided my own personal view and Giani Baba Inderjit Singh Ji's view on Devi/Bhagauti/Chandi. I have now no reason to continue this conversation. Either read the blog and take the good out of it, or don't read it, its your loss [or gain if you think I am Hinduvta/RSS].

[singhfauja]

... I mentioned that stream of thought as it was held by Kulbir Singh Ji of Tapoban Sahib. Do not misquote me.

The link you provided "GurmatBibek", is not a Tapoban Sahib site, and the views posted on GurmatBibek are personal opinions of Bh. Kulbir Singh, and not the official opinion of Tapoban Singhs.

[GPS]

Did you even listen to the Katha? Please listen again, maybe I will transcribe it for you, you seem to be only hearing what you want. Baba Inderjit Singh Ji also noted how Mata Sahib Devan [Kaur] was an avatar of Chandi, I am sure you missed that again because it doesn't follow in with your beliefs. BTW that is a common belief within the Nihung Singhs.

I have heard the katha posted by you. Baba ji says

1) Shakti of akal purakh in manifest state is kirpan for sikhs

2) Hindus consider that shakti as Durga.

This is very clear. Within Dasam Granth chandi is not personified. So we should interpret chandi per context of use.

Chandi has been used as kirpan also. So chandi when mentioned in Dasam Granth does not mean Durga only.

Read below

ਧੂਹਿ ਲਈ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾਣੀ ਦੁਰਗਾ ਮਿਆਨ ਤੇ ॥

धूहि लई क्रिपाणी दुरगा मिआन ते ॥

Durga pulled her sword from the scabbard.

ਚੰਡੀ ਰਾਕਸਿ ਖਾਣੀ ਵਾਹੀ ਦੈਤ ਨੂੰ ॥

चंडी राकसि खाणी वाही दैत नूं ॥

She struck the demon with that Chandi, the devourer of demons (that is the sword).

Chandi di vaar

When guru sahib writes " ath devi ji ki ustat", that you had posted from krishna avtar, it is ustat of akal purakh and not devi durga. Devi word is metaphor for akal purakh. Given below is another devi ji ki ustat from krishna avtar .

It is obvious which devi Guru sahib is praising.It is akal purakh

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHUPAI

ਮੈ ਨ ਗਨੇਸ਼ਹਿ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮ ਮਨਾਊਂ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਬਿਸ਼ਨ ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨਹ ਧਿਆਊਂ ॥ਕਾਨ ਸੁਨੇ ਪਹਿਚਾਨ ਨ ਤਿਨ ਸੋਂ ॥ ਲਿਵ ਲਾਗੀ ਮੋਰੀ ਪਗ ਇਨ ਸੋਂ ॥੪੩੪॥

मै न गनेशहि प्रिथम मनाऊं ॥ किशन बिशन कबहूं नह धिआऊं ॥कान सुने पहिचान न तिन सों ॥ लिव लागी मोरी पग इन सों ॥४३४॥

I do not adore Ganesha in the beginning and also do not mediatate on Krishna and Vishnu; I have only heard about them with my ears and I do not recognize them; my consciousness is absorbed at the feet of the Supreme Kal (the Immanent Brahman).434.

ਮਹਾਕਾਲ ਰਖਵਾਰ ਹਮਾਰੋ ॥ ਮਹਾ ਲੋਹ ਮੈਂ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰੋ ॥ ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਰਖਵਾਰ ॥ ਬਾਹਿ ਗਹੇ ਕੀ ਲਾਜ ਬਿਚਾਰ ॥੪੩੫॥

महाकाल रखवार हमारो ॥ महा लोह मैं किंकर थारो ॥ अपना जान करो रखवार ॥ बाहि गहे की लाज बिचार ॥४३५॥

The Supreme Kal (God) is my Protector and O Steel-Purusha Lort ! I am Thy slave; Protect me, considering me as Thy own and do me the honour of catching my arm.435.

ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਮੁਝੇ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਰੀਐ ॥ ਚੁਨ ਚੁਨ ਸ਼ੱਤੁ ਹਮਾਰੇ ਮਰੀਐ ॥ ਦੇਗ ਤੇਗ ਜਗ ਮੈ ਦੋਊ ਚਲੈ ॥ ਰਾਖ ਆਪ ਮੁਹਿ ਅਉਰੁ ਨ ਦਲੈ ॥੪੩੬॥

अपना जान मुझे प्रतिपरीऐ ॥ चुन चुन श्तु हमारे मरीऐ ॥ देग तेग जग मै दोऊ चलै ॥ राख आप मुहि अउरु न दलै ॥४३६॥

Sustain me, considering me as Thy own and destroy my enemies, picking them up; O Lord with Thy Grace, let the free kitchen and Sword (for the protection of the lowly;) ever flourish through me and none should be able to kill me except You.436.

ਤੁਮ ਮਮ ਕਰਹੁ ਸਦਾ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਮੈ ਦਾਸ ਤਿਹਾਰਾ ॥ ਜਾਨ ਆਪਨਾ ਮੁਝੈ ਨਿਵਾਜ ॥ ਆਪ ਕਰੋ ਹਮਰੇ ਸਭ ਕਾਜ ॥੪੩੭॥

तुम मम करहु सदा प्रतिपारा ॥ तुम साहिब मै दास तिहारा ॥ जान आपना मुझै निवाज ॥ आप करो हमरे सभ काज ॥४३७॥

Sustain me ever, O Lord! Thou art my Master and I am Thy slave; be Gracious towards me, considering me as Thy own and complete all my works.437.

ਤੁਮ ਹੋ ਸਭ ਰਾਜਨ ਕੇ ਰਾਜਾ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਆਪੁ ਗਰੀਬ ਨਿਵਾਜਾ ॥ ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਕਰਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਕਰਹੁ ਮੁਹਿ ॥ ਹਾਰ ਪਰਾ ਮੈ ਆਨ ਦ੍ਵਾਰ ਤੁਹਿ ॥੪੩੮॥

तुम हो सभ राजन के राजा ॥ आपे आपु गरीब निवाजा ॥ दास जान करि क्रिपा करहु मुहि ॥ हार परा मै आन द्वार तुहि ॥४३८॥

O Lord! Thou art eh king of all kings and Gracious towards the poor; be Benevolent towards me, considering me as Thy own, because, I have surrendered and fallen at Thy Gate.438.

ਅਪਨਾ ਜਾਨ ਕਰੋ ਪ੍ਰਤਿਪਾਰਾ ॥ ਤੁਮ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਮੈ ਕਿੰਕਰ ਥਾਰਾ ॥ ਦਾਸ ਜਾਨ ਦੈ ਹਾਥ ਉਬਾਰੋ ॥ ਹਮਰੇ ਸਭ ਬੈਰੀਅਨ ਸੰਘਾਰੋ ॥੪੩੯॥

अपना जान करो प्रतिपारा ॥ तुम साहिबु मै किंकर थारा ॥ दास जान दै हाथ उबारो ॥ हमरे सभ बैरीअन संघारो ॥४३९॥

Sustain me, considering me as Thy own; Thou art my Lord and I am Thy slave; considering me as Thy slave, save me with Thy own hands and destroy all my enemies.439.

ਪ੍ਰਥਮ ਧਰੋ ਭਗਵਤ ਕੋ ਧਯਾਨਾ ॥ ਬਹੁਰ ਕਰੋ ਕਬਿਤਾ ਬਿਧਿ ਨਾਨਾ ॥ ਕਿਸ਼ਨ ਜਥਾ ਮਤ ਚਰਿਤ੍ਰ ਉਚਾਰੋ ॥ ਚੂਕ ਹੋਇ ਕਬਿ ਲੇਹੁ ਸੁਧਾਰੋ ॥੪੪੦॥

प्रथम धरो भगवत को धयाना ॥ बहुर करो कबिता बिधि नाना ॥ किशन जथा मत चरित्र उचारो ॥ चूक होइ कबि लेहु सुधारो ॥४४०॥

At the very outset, I meditate on Bhagavata (Lord-God) and then endeavour to compose various types of poesy; I speak out the memories of Krishna according to my; intellect and if there remins any shortcoming in it, then the poets may improve it.440.

ਇਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਦੇਵੀ ਉਸਤਤਿ ਸਮਾਪਤਮ ॥

इति स्री देवी उसतति समापतम ॥

End of the eulogy of the Goddess.

Whole yudh parbandh section in dasam granth sahib of Krishna avtar is absolutely new and has no relation with Bhagwat puranas.These figures come in SGGS ji and Guru sahib has described them in narrative form in Dasam Granth.He changed their characters putting them under God.In puranas they are themselves God.

Guru sahib has created a character Kahrag singh who fights all these devtas and devtas run away unable to fight against him. Then krishna comes and fights with him.This is what he does to krishna.

Read below

ਜਬ ਸ਼ਿਵਜੂ ਕਛੁ ਸੰਗਿਆ ਪਾਈ ॥ ਭਾਜਿ ਗਯੋ ਤਜ ਦਈ ਲਰਾਈ ॥ ਅਉਰ ਸਗਲ ਡਰ ਕੈ ਗਨ ਭਾਗੈ ॥ ਐਸੇ ਕੋ ਭਟ ਆਵੈ ਆਗੈ ॥੧੫੨੮॥

जब शिवजू कछु संगिआ पाई ॥ भाजि गयो तज दई लराई ॥ अउर सगल डर कै गन भागै ॥ ऐसे को भट आवै आगै ॥१५२८॥

The Shiva became somewhat conscious and he fled away from the war-arena; other ganas, ran away in fear; there seemed to be no warrior, who could confront the king.1528.

ਚੌਪਈ ॥

चौपई ॥

CHAUPAI

ਜਬਹਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਸ਼ਨ ਸ਼ਿਵ ਭਜਤ ਨਿਹਾਰਿਓ ॥ ਇਹੈ ਆਪਨੈ ਹ੍ਰਿਦੈ ਬਿਚਾਰਿਓ ॥ਅਬ ਹਉ ਆਪਨ ਇਹ ਸੰਗ ਲਰੋ ॥ ਕੈ ਅਰਿ ਮਾਰੋ ਕੈ ਲਰਿ ਮਰੋ ॥੧੫੨੯॥

जबहि क्रिशन शिव भजत निहारिओ ॥ इहै आपनै ह्रिदै बिचारिओ ॥अब हउ आपन इह संग लरो ॥ कै अरि मारो कै लरि मरो ॥१५२९॥

When Krishna saw Shiva running away, then he reflected in his mind that he would then fight with the enemy himself; either he would kill the enemy of die himself.1529.

ਤਬ ਤਿਹ ਸਉਹੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਗਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਭਨੈ ਅਤਿ ਜੁੱਧ ਮਚਯੋ ॥ ਤਬ ਤਿਨ ਤਕਿ ਤਿਹ ਬਾਨ ਲਗਾਯੋ ॥ ਸਯੰਦਨ ਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਭੂਮ ਗਿਰਾਯੋ ॥੧੫੩੦॥

तब तिह सउहै हरि जू गयो ॥ राम भनै अति जु्ध मचयो ॥ तब तिन तकि तिह बान लगायो ॥ सयंदन ते हरि भूम गिरायो ॥१५३०॥

Then Krishna went before the king and waged a dreadful war; making him the target, the king shot an arrow and dismounted Krishna from his chariot.1530.

ਕਬਿਯੋ ਬਾਚ ॥

कबियो बाच ॥

Speech of the poet:

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਜਾ ਪ੍ਰਭ ਕਉ ਨਿਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਚੀਪਤਿ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਸਨਕਾਦਿਕ ਹੂ ਜਪੁ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਸੂਰ ਸਸੀ ਸੁਰ ਨਾਰਦ ਸਾਰਦ ਤਾਹੀ ਕੈ ਧਿਆਨ ਬਿਖੈ ਮਨੁ ਦੀਨੋ ॥

जा प्रभ कउ नित ब्रहम सचीपति स्री सनकादिक हू जपु कीनो ॥ सूर ससी सुर नारद सारद ताही कै धिआन बिखै मनु दीनो ॥

He, whose name is muttered ever by Brahma, Indra, Sanak etc.; He, on whom Surya, Chandra, Narada, Sharda meditate;

ਖੋਜਤ ਹੈ ਜਿਹ ਸਿੱਧ ਮਹਾਮੁਨ ਬਿਆਸ ਪਰਾਸੁਰ ਭੇਦ ਨ ਚੀਨੋ ॥ ਸੋ ਖੜਗੇਸ਼ ਅਯੋਧਨ ਮੈ ਕਰ ਮੋ ਹਿਤ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੧॥

खोजत है जिह सि्ध महामुन बिआस परासुर भेद न चीनो ॥ सो खड़गेश अयोधन मै कर मो हित केसन ते गहि लीनो ॥१५३१॥

He, whom the adepts search in their contemplation and whose mystery is not comprehended by the great sages like Vyas and Prashar, Kharag Singh caught him in the battlefield by his hair.1531.

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਮਾਰ ਬਕੀ ਬਕ ਅਉਰ ਅਘਾਸੁਰ ਧੇਨਕ ਕੋ ਪਲ ਮੈ ਬਧ ਕੀਨੋ ॥ ਕੇਸੀ ਬਛਾਸੁਰ ਮੁਸਟ ਚੰਡੂਰ ਕੀਏ ਚਕ ਚੂਰ ਸੁਨਯੋ ਪੁਰ ਤੀਨੋ ॥

मार बकी बक अउर अघासुर धेनक को पल मै बध कीनो ॥ केसी बछासुर मुसट चंडूर कीए चक चूर सुनयो पुर तीनो ॥

He, who killed Putana, Bakasura, Aghasura and Dhenkasura in an instant; he, who became famous in all the three worlds by killing Keshi, Mahishasur, Mushiti, Chandur etc.;

ਸ੍ਰੀ ਹਰਿ ਸ਼ੱਤ੍ਰ ਅਨੇਕ ਹਨੇ ਤਿਹ ਕਉਨ ਗਨੇ ਕਬਿ ਸਯਾਮ ਪ੍ਰਬੀਨੋ ॥ ਕੰਸ ਕਉ ਕੇਸਨ ਤੇ ਗਹਿ ਕੇਸਵ ਭੂਪ ਮਨੋ ਬਦਲੋ ਵਹ ਲੀਨੋ ॥੧੫੩੨॥

स्री हरि श्त्र अनेक हने तिह कउन गने कबि सयाम प्रबीनो ॥ कंस कउ केसन ते गहि केसव भूप मनो बदलो वह लीनो ॥१५३२॥

That Krishna, who had knocked down many enemies with skill and killed Kansa by catching him from his hair; the name Krishna has been caught by his hair by the king Kharag Singh; it seems that he has avenged the killing of Kansa by catching his hair.1532

ਸਵੈਯਾ ॥

सवैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਚਿੰਤ ਕਰੀ ਚਿਤ ਮੈ ਭੂਪਤ ਜੋ ਦਿਹ ਕਉ ਅਬ ਹਉ ਬਧ ਕੈ ਹਉ ॥ ਸੈਨ ਸਭੈ ਭਜ ਹੈ ਜਬ ਹੀ ਤਬ ਕਾ ਸੰਗ ਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਜੁੱਧੁ ਮਚੈ ਹਉ ॥

चिंत करी चित मै भूपत जो दिह कउ अब हउ बध कै हउ ॥ सैन सभै भज है जब ही तब का संग जाइ कै जु्धु मचै हउ ॥

The king then thought that if he killed Krishna, all his army would run away; with whom then he would fight?

ਹਉ ਕਿਹ ਪੈ ਕਰਿਹੋ ਬਹੁ ਘਾਇਨ ਕਾ ਕੇ ਹਉ ਘਾਇ ਸਨਮੁਖ ਖੈ ਹਉ ॥ਛਾਡ ਦਯੋ ਕਹਿਓ ਜਾਹੁ ਚਲੋ ਹਰਿ ਤੋ ਸਮ ਸੂਰ ਕਹੂੰ ਨਹੀ ਪੈ ਹਉ ॥੧੫੩੩॥

हउ किह पै करिहो बहु घाइन का के हउ घाइ सनमुख खै हउ ॥छाड दयो कहिओ जाहु चलो हरि तो सम सूर कहूं नही पै हउ ॥१५३३॥

To whom then he would inflict a wound or from whom he be wounded himself? Therefore, the king set Krishna free and said," Go away, there is no other warrior like you."1533.

Krishna avtar, dasam granth

This is major part of krishna avtar. Can you find it in any purana? No way. show me if you say so?

Please do not say that these episodes are copy pf puranic literature. Guru sahib has changed puranic literature completely and conformed these to sikh philosophy where akal purakh is supreme.

Fight of kharag singh against Krishna has always been a source of inspiration for khalsa as Guru sahib has described kharag singh as saying

ਖੜਗੇਸ਼ ਬਾਚ ਸਭਨ ਭਟਨ ਸੋ ॥

खड़गेश बाच सभन भटन सो ॥

Speech of Kharag Singh addressed to all the warriors:

ਸ੍ਵੈਯਾ ॥

स्वैया ॥

SWAYYA

ਪਸਚਮ ਸੂਰ ਚੜੇ ਕਬਹੂ ਅਰੁ ਗੰਗ ਬਹੀ ਉਲਟੀ ਜੀਅ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਜੇਠ ਕੇ ਮਾਸ ਤਖਾਰ ਪਰੇ ਬਨ ਅਉਰ ਬਸੰਤ ਸਮੀਰ ਜਰਾਵੈ ॥

पसचम सूर चड़े कबहू अरु गंग बही उलटी जीअ आवै ॥ जेठ के मास तखार परे बन अउर बसंत समीर जरावै ॥

Even if the sun rises from the west and the Ganges flows contrary to its course; even if it snows in the month of Jyeshth and the wind of spring gives scorching heat;

ਲੋਕ ਹਲੈ ਧ੍ਰੂਅ ਕੋ ਜਲ ਕੋ ਥਲ ਹੁਇ ਥਲ ਕੋ ਕਬਹੂ ਜਲੁ ਜਾਵੈ ॥ ਕੰਚਨ ਕੇ ਨਗੁ ਪੰਖਨ ਧਾਰਿ ਉਡੈ ਖੜਗੇਸ਼ ਨ ਪੀਠ ਦਿਖਾਵੈ ॥੧੬੧੩॥

लोक हलै ध्रूअ को जल को थल हुइ थल को कबहू जलु जावै ॥ कंचन के नगु पंखन धारि उडै खड़गेश न पीठ दिखावै ॥१६१३॥

Even if the stable pole star moves and if the waters turn into plain and plain into wates and if the Sumeru mountain flies with wings, Kharag Singh will never get back from the war-arena.1613.

krishna avtar, dasam granth

Source of inspiration to khalsa is kharag Singh in krishna avtar and not krishna.The above was character of khalsa of Guru ji and let us not tarnish that by eulogising deities.

[GPS]

If we read Sri guru Granth sahib ji carefully we would find the concept of AVTAAR IS NORT ACCEPTABLE

in our faith . wHEREVER QUOTAD, IT IS TO GIVE illusration or example to prove some point .

SGGS very much supports incarnation of these avtars. That means they were there .Unlike Hindu philosophy where they are themselves God, SGGS says that they came with order from akal purakh.

hukim aupwey ds Aauqwrw ] (1037-5, mwrU, mÚ 1)

hukam upaa-ay das a-utaaraa.

By His Hukam, He created His ten incarnations,

dyv dwnv Agxq Apwrw ] (1037-5, mwrU, mÚ 1)

dayv daanav agnat apaaraa.

and the uncounted and infinite gods and devils.

ang 1037 SGGS ji

Dasam Granths says same thing.

[apnepart2]

I admire Ram but i firmly believe he killed Ravan by deceit. He killed even Bali by deceit. Deceit is integral part of these Kings turned into Gods. Whereas our Gurus never indulged in cheating even once. This is what differentiates them. Also Gurus preached killing of 'ego' as foremost. Ram banished Sita from his home for Ego. Before celebrating Death of Ravan ask yourself this - are you as enlightened as Ravan?

[Harinder_Singh]

I admire Ram but i firmly believe he killed Ravan by deceit. He killed even Bali by deceit. Deceit is integral part of these Kings turned into Gods. Whereas our Gurus never indulged in cheating even once. This is what differentiates them. Also Gurus preached killing of 'ego' as foremost. Ram banished Sita from his home for Ego. Before celebrating Death of Ravan ask yourself this - are you as enlightened as Ravan?

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

The above is the pankiti from tav prasad svaiyiye which is part of our daily nitnem. The interesting thing is the use of the word JAMM. Ram and krishan were incarnations of Vishnu and were sent to this world for a purpose but these avtars suffered from ego and made mistakes and as a result went with Jamm.

[N30S1NGH]

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥

The above is the pankiti from tav prasad svaiyiye which is part of our daily nitnem. The interesting thing is the use of the word JAMM. Ram and krishan were incarnations of Vishnu and were sent to this world for a purpose but these avtars suffered from ego and made mistakes and as a result went with Jamm.

In this pankiti, bishan is vishnu devta. But vishnu has two meaning just like siva has two meaning one is devta and other is akaal purkh god, vishnu in context of chaubis avtar is consider supreme god according to vishnu sahasranama which is 1000 different names of vishnu god.

If you don't accept that then thats fine, just i like to remind if siva can have two meaning, one is dedicated to devta other to akaal purkh in gurbani, bhrama can have two meaning, one is dedicated to devta, other is par bhram, with following same flow of consistency- vishnu also has two meanings according to different school of thoughts in hinduism, and i m sure if we do some deep digging in gurbani as opposed to touching an surface, will find vishnu also have two meanings based in gurbani.. i will start doing khoj on this but for time being do consider, according to different school of thoughts in hinduism, vishnu has two meanings, one is consider an demi god and other one is supreme god.

[N30S1NGH]

Just did a quick search, here is bisan is dedicated to akaal purkh:

ਆਸਾ ॥

aasaa ||

Aasaa:

11

ਹਮ ਘਰਿ ਸੂਤੁ ਤਨਹਿ ਨਿਤ ਤਾਨਾ ਕੰਠਿ ਜਨੇਊ ਤੁਮਾਰੇ ॥

ham ghar sooth thanehi nith thaanaa kanth janaeoo thumaarae ||

In my house, I constantly weave the thread, while you wear the thread around your neck, O Brahmin.

11 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਤਉ ਬੇਦ ਪੜਹੁ ਗਾਇਤ੍ਰੀ ਗੋਬਿੰਦੁ ਰਿਦੈ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੧॥

thumh tho baedh parrahu gaaeithree gobindh ridhai hamaarae ||1||

You read the Vedas and sacred hymns, while I have enshrined the Lord of the Universe in my heart. ||1||

11 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਮੇਰੀ ਜਿਹਬਾ ਬਿਸਨੁ ਨੈਨ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਬਸਹਿ ਗੋਬਿੰਦਾ ॥

maeree jihabaa bisan nain naaraaein hiradhai basehi gobindhaa ||

Upon my tongue, within my eyes, and within my heart, abides the Lord, the Lord of the Universe.

12 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਜਮ ਦੁਆਰ ਜਬ ਪੂਛਸਿ ਬਵਰੇ ਤਬ ਕਿਆ ਕਹਸਿ ਮੁਕੰਦਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

jam dhuaar jab pooshhas bavarae thab kiaa kehas mukandhaa ||1|| rehaao ||

When you are interrogated at Death's door, O mad-man, what will you say then? ||1||Pause||

13 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਹਮ ਗੋਰੂ ਤੁਮ ਗੁਆਰ ਗੁਸਾਈ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਰਖਵਾਰੇ ॥

ham goroo thum guaar gusaaee janam janam rakhavaarae ||

I am a cow, and You are the herdsman, the Sustainer of the World. You are my Saving Grace, lifetime after lifetime.

13 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਕਬਹੂੰ ਨ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰਿ ਚਰਾਇਹੁ ਕੈਸੇ ਖਸਮ ਹਮਾਰੇ ॥੨॥

kabehoon n paar outhaar charaaeihu kaisae khasam hamaarae ||2||

You have never taken me across to graze there - what sort of a herdsman are You? ||2||

14 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਤੂੰ ਬਾਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਨੁ ਮੈ ਕਾਸੀਕ ਜੁਲਹਾ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਮੋਰ ਗਿਆਨਾ ॥

thoon baamhan mai kaaseek julehaa boojhahu mor giaanaa ||

You are a Brahmin, and I am a weaver of Benares; can You understand my wisdom?

14 Aasaa Saint Kabir

ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਤਉ ਜਾਚੇ ਭੂਪਤਿ ਰਾਜੇ ਹਰਿ ਸਉ ਮੋਰ ਧਿਆਨਾ ॥੩॥੪॥੨੬॥

thumh tho jaachae bhoopath raajae har so mor dhhiaanaa ||3||4||26||

You beg from emperors and kings, while I meditate on the Lord. ||3||4||26||

15 Aasaa Saint Kabir

Here we have established according to gurbani bishan has two meanings, one is devta and other one is akaal purkh. I think, 24 avtars of vishnu, bishan in context of chaubis avtar is dedicated to akaal purkh.

[apnepart2]

there is a difference between ਬਿਸਨ & ਬਿਸਨੁ . further when bisan is used alongwith brahm and maheshar it becomes clear who bisan is.

what are your views about the OM of hindus? isnt it one supreme power? also

before establishing anything do we need to look at what archeologists in India have established?

[N30S1NGH]

Off course, i m not disputing the tuk- ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥ i m not disputing that bisan here in this tuk belongs to vishnu devta.. i m not disputing that at all.. what i m disputing is chaubis avtar forms of vishnu, vishnu in this context is known an God himself not an devta as its shown bisan has two meanings.