What Maryada Implies Applying Tilak To Lareedaar Saroop Of Guru Sahib?

[Only five]

People are saying this practice of putting tilak to angs of Guru Sahib is wrong, but what is reason behind it being wrong. Forget what this one guy is doing and his intentions, but focus on the one thing that is being shunned here.

I am not saying it's right, but then again why is it wrong?

[hkaurP]

People are saying this practice of putting tilak to angs of Guru Sahib is wrong, but what is reason behind it being wrong. Forget what this one guy is doing and his intentions, but focus on the one thing that is being shunned here.

I am not saying it's right, but then again why is it wrong?

It's wrong because then we are doing idol worship which Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us not to do. Why bring in brahmin rituals in sikhi? Sikhi is perfect as it is, we dont need tilak and aarti (the plate) in Sikhi.

"Jab Lag Khalsa Rahe Niara, Tab Lag Tej Diyun Main Saara, Jab Eh Gayi Bipran Ki Reet, Main Na Karun Inki Parteet" Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

Maybe this is why to some extent we aren't prospering as a panth, because we bring these Brahmin rituals into Sikhi.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[sikhreality]

It's wrong because then we are doing idol worship which Guru Gobind Singh Ji told us not to do. Why bring in brahmin rituals in sikhi? Sikhi is perfect as it is, we dont need tilak and aarti (the plate) in Sikhi.

"Jab Lag Khalsa Rahe Niara, Tab Lag Tej Diyun Main Saara, Jab Eh Gayi Bipran Ki Reet, Main Na Karun Inki Parteet" Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

Maybe this is why to some extent we aren't prospering as a panth, because we bring these Brahmin rituals into Sikhi.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

What about when the Guru's received Gur-gaddi, was a Tilak not applied to them with coconuts infront of them? Baba Budha Ji himself put the Tilak on the first 6 Gurus. Below is a picture of Baba Budha Ji placing a Tilak on Guru Ram Das Ji when Maharaj was receiving his Gur-gaddi.

I think this is done with the Guru Granth Sahib when it is first installed or first printed. I am not sure exactly on the Marayda on this, but I know it has been mentioned by old Mahapursh before. I think we need to be a bit more critical when targetting certain practices which we are unaware of. There are many practises today in Sikhi which many people havn't heard of, and just because we have not heard of them is not reason to be against them.

In Sarbloh Granth the practise of applying Tilak is mentioned in a good context, read below.

ਉਠ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ, ਪਦ ਪੰਕਜ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਨਾ ॥

Wake up in the early hours of the morning, andmerge with the Lotus Feet [of the Lord].

ਜਥਾ ਸਕਤਿ ਦਾਨ ਭੂਖੈ ਕਹੁ, ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਰੰਗ ਭੀਨਾ ॥

As much as your means allow give charity to the hungry, in every moment be entrenched in the love [colour] of Vahiguru.

ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਨਿਵਾਰ, ਦਯਾ ਮਨ ਲਾਵਹੁ, ਹਿੰਸਾ, ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਤ੍ਯਾਗੋ ॥

Destroy anger, instill compassion in your mind, disregard violence and poor thinking.

ਇਕਮਨ ਹੋਇ ਭਜਹੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ, ਖਿਮਾ ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੋ ॥

With one mind worship Narayan, create a love for forgiveness and rightousness.

ਤੀਰਥ, ਬਰਤ, ਨੇਮ, ਸੁਚਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ, ਸੀਲ, ਸੰਤੋਖ, ਆਚਾਰੋ ॥

[Make] Pilgrimages, desireless worship, the Name, truthful actions, restraint, contentment your nature.

ਪੂਜਾ, ਤਿਲਕ, ਹੋਮ, ਗਾਯਤ੍ਰੀ, ਸੰਧ੍ਯਾ, ਤਰਪਨ ਧਾਰੋ ॥

Conduct worship, [adorn a] Tilak, [conduct] Havans, [recite] Gayatri [mantras], worship at the prescribed times, instill these virtues [in your heart].

ਗੁਰੁ, ਠਾਕੁਰ, ਪਿਤੁ, ਮਾਤ, ਬੰਧ ਜਨੁ, ਮਿਸ਼੍ਟਿ ਬਚਨ ਅਭਿਲਾਖੋ ॥

Speak sweetly to your Guru, your Takhur, Father, Mother, and in laws.

ਸਭਿ ਕੀ ਰੇਨੁ ਹਇ ਰਹੇ ਪੰਖਰੂ, ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਭਾਖੋ ॥੯॥

Become the dust from the feet of others and stay humble, do not call anyone else bad.

ਇਸ਼੍ਟ, ਦੇਵ, ਰਿਖੀ, ਪਿਤ੍ਰ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ, ਗਉ, ਅਭ੍ਯਾਗਤਿ ਮਾਨੋ ॥

Recognize [respect] your Beloved, God, Sages, your Father,the Brahman, the Cow, and those who have their face to the Guru

ਕੀਟ ਹਸਤਿ ਮੇਰੁ, ਤ੍ਰਿਣਨਨ ਮਹਿ, ਸਰਬ ਨਿੰਰਜਨਿ ਜਾਨੋ ॥

In a small ant, a large elephant, a massive mountain and even in a small blade of grass, the Lord Niranjan resides in all.

ਸਤ੍ਯ ਰੂਪ ਆਤਮ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਤਿ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੋ ॥

Your true Aatma [form] never dies, recognize Braham [God] as always true as well.

ਏਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਭ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਪੂਰਨ, ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਭਗਵਾਨੋ ॥੧੦॥

The One Braham is in all; Bhagvaan was here from the very beginning.

Page: 81 Chapter 1, Vol. I, Sarbloh Granth

http://www.manglacharan.com/2010/09/updesh-teaching-to-khalsa-sarbloh.html

[K Singh 82]

Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Jee - Ang 923

raamadhaas sodtee thilak dheeaa gur sabadh sach neesaan jeeo ||5||

The Guru then blessed the Sodhi Ram Das with the ceremonial tilak mark, the insignia of the True Word of the Shabad. ||5||

I don't think anyone can really question whether Guroo Jee received a tilak when the Gurgaddi was passed on from one Guroo Sahib to another as the pangtee above clears that up and shows that Guru Raam Das Jee received a tilak when they received gurgaddi.

There are many practises today in Sikhi which many people havn't heard of, and just because we have not heard of them is not reason to be against them.

On the flip side of the coin - just because we haven't heard of it doesn't mean we can't question its authenticity either and must just accept it because it 'may' be a puratan maryada?

I am not sure exactly on the Marayda on this, but I know it has been mentioned by old Mahapursh before.

SikhReality jeeo, please could you provide a link to the katha from where you heard this or even the name of the mahapursh themselves?

I'm going to play the devil's advoacte here as this may infact be a puratan maryada and it may also be possible that Guroo Gobind Singh Jee did place a tilak on Guroo Granth Sahib Jee when Guroo Jee have Gurgaddi to Sri Guroo Granth Sahib Jee. Even if it it true, surely we can't compare ourselves to either Baba Buddha Jee or Guroo Gobind Singh Jee as the gurgaddi has already been passed onto Guroo Granth Sahib Jee?

Also, i don't see the need for everyone to place the tilak as it was only Baba Budda Jee alone that put a tilak on Guroo Ram Dass Jee and not everyone in the sangat. On a satkaar level, surely if thousands of people put a tilak on Guroo Granth Sahib Jee, over time that would cause more beadbee and actual damage to Guroo Jee's saroop in the long term?

Personally, I find it very uncomfortable watching all those people placing a tilak on Guroo Jee, not because the tilak is seen as a Hindu practice today but because of the beadbee that it can and ultimately will cause!

[Only five]

What about when the Guru's received Gur-gaddi, was a Tilak not applied to them with coconuts infront of them? Baba Budha Ji himself put the Tilak on the first 6 Gurus. Below is a picture of Baba Budha Ji placing a Tilak on Guru Ram Das Ji when Maharaj was receiving his Gur-gaddi.

I think this is done with the Guru Granth Sahib when it is first installed or first printed. I am not sure exactly on the Marayda on this, but I know it has been mentioned by old Mahapursh before. I think we need to be a bit more critical when targetting certain practices which we are unaware of. There are many practises today in Sikhi which many people havn't heard of, and just because we have not heard of them is not reason to be against them.

There is nothing about Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji being installed or first printed in the video. As you said before Tilak was used when Guruship was being passed on. So why is it being used now in this video? Whether a Saroop is being installed is irrevelant here because Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji has already been given Guruship by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji. All Saroops are the same so only the first one needed the Tilak, if it was done to Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. If we keep it into context as you have said then it looks as if the Sikhs are anointing the Saroop to be Guru now(Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji is already the eternal Guru). Also Sri Guru Angad Dev ji was given Guruship was one tilak placed on his forehead or was everyone in the sangat getting up putting a tilak on every ang or close to it on Guru Sahib?

Sounds like people here the word he's from Taksal or did darshan of another Sant or has Sant infront of his name and we have to accept everything the person is doing and then the name maryada is attached to it, so no one questions it.

In Sarbloh Granth the practise of applying Tilak is mentioned in a good context, read below.

ਉਠ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤਿ ਕਰਹੁ ਇਸਨਾਨਾ, ਪਦ ਪੰਕਜ ਮਹਿ ਲੀਨਾ ॥

Wake up in the early hours of the morning, andmerge with the Lotus Feet [of the Lord].

ਜਥਾ ਸਕਤਿ ਦਾਨ ਭੂਖੈ ਕਹੁ, ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਰੰਗ ਭੀਨਾ ॥

As much as your means allow give charity to the hungry, in every moment be entrenched in the love [colour] of Vahiguru.

ਕ੍ਰੋਧ ਨਿਵਾਰ, ਦਯਾ ਮਨ ਲਾਵਹੁ, ਹਿੰਸਾ, ਦੁਰਮਤਿ ਤ੍ਯਾਗੋ ॥

Destroy anger, instill compassion in your mind, disregard violence and poor thinking.

ਇਕਮਨ ਹੋਇ ਭਜਹੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ, ਖਿਮਾ ਧਰਮ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੋ ॥

With one mind worship Narayan, create a love for forgiveness and rightousness.

ਤੀਰਥ, ਬਰਤ, ਨੇਮ, ਸੁਚਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਯਾ, ਸੀਲ, ਸੰਤੋਖ, ਆਚਾਰੋ ॥

[Make] Pilgrimages, desireless worship, the Name, truthful actions, restraint, contentment your nature.

ਪੂਜਾ, ਤਿਲਕ, ਹੋਮ, ਗਾਯਤ੍ਰੀ, ਸੰਧ੍ਯਾ, ਤਰਪਨ ਧਾਰੋ ॥

Conduct worship, [adorn a] Tilak, [conduct] Havans, [recite] Gayatri [mantras], worship at the prescribed times, instill these virtues [in your heart].

ਗੁਰੁ, ਠਾਕੁਰ, ਪਿਤੁ, ਮਾਤ, ਬੰਧ ਜਨੁ, ਮਿਸ਼੍ਟਿ ਬਚਨ ਅਭਿਲਾਖੋ ॥

Speak sweetly to your Guru, your Takhur, Father, Mother, and in laws.

ਸਭਿ ਕੀ ਰੇਨੁ ਹਇ ਰਹੇ ਪੰਖਰੂ, ਮੰਦਾ ਕਿਸਹਿ ਨ ਭਾਖੋ ॥੯॥

Become the dust from the feet of others and stay humble, do not call anyone else bad.

ਇਸ਼੍ਟ, ਦੇਵ, ਰਿਖੀ, ਪਿਤ੍ਰ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮਨ, ਗਉ, ਅਭ੍ਯਾਗਤਿ ਮਾਨੋ ॥

Recognize [respect] your Beloved, God, Sages, your Father,the Brahman, the Cow, and those who have their face to the Guru

ਕੀਟ ਹਸਤਿ ਮੇਰੁ, ਤ੍ਰਿਣਨਨ ਮਹਿ, ਸਰਬ ਨਿੰਰਜਨਿ ਜਾਨੋ ॥

In a small ant, a large elephant, a massive mountain and even in a small blade of grass, the Lord Niranjan resides in all.

ਸਤ੍ਯ ਰੂਪ ਆਤਮ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ, ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਤਿ ਪਹਿਚਾਨੋ ॥

Your true Aatma [form] never dies, recognize Braham [God] as always true as well.

ਏਕ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਸਭ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਪੂਰਨ, ਆਦਿ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਭਗਵਾਨੋ ॥੧੦॥

The One Braham is in all; Bhagvaan was here from the very beginning.

Page: 81 Chapter 1, Vol. I, Sarbloh Granth

http://www.manglacha...sa-sarbloh.html

I believe this shabad is not being understood and when it is in the person's interest, the literal meaning is being used and when not then they say it is speaking metaphorically. Words like havan, tilak, Gayatri, Pilgrimages can be said to mean something else other than the literal meaning. Couldn't Pilgrimage mean the pilgrimage of the mind to Waheguru, tilak, to adorn the Naam of Waheguru, Gayatri, to Sing the Lord's praises, Havan, create Gurbani as the center of your life?

Let's just say for a second that it is saying pilgrimage as in the literal since then look at what is said next. Guru Sahib is saying to make desireless worship. Isn't a pilgrimage full of desire to worship a certain holy place in the world and the way their the desire to worship is very strong. The end result is a desireful worship because on the way the person is full of the desire to reach the spot. The desire is to reach the holy place so where is the desireless worship here then in a pilgrimage?

[hkaurP]

Also, i don't see the need for everyone to place the tilak as it was only Baba Budda Jee alone that put a tilak on Guroo Ram Dass Jee and not everyone in the sangat. On a satkaar level, surely if thousands of people put a tilak on Guroo Granth Sahib Jee, over time that would cause more beadbee and actual damage to Guroo Jee's saroop in the long term?

Personally, I find it very uncomfortable watching all those people placing a tilak on Guroo Jee, not because the tilak is seen as a Hindu practice today but because of the beadbee that it can and ultimately will cause!

This is exactly my point, even though I might have not made it clear. If that was how Gurgaddi was passed down, then only Baba Budda Ji had that right, not normal people like us. We have no right to compare ourselves with Baba Budda Ji and copy him.

[Singh559]

This is exactly my point, even though I might have not made it clear. If that was how Gurgaddi was passed down, then only Baba Budda Ji had that right, not normal people like us. We have no right to compare ourselves with Baba Budda Ji and copy him.

100% agreed with penji.

[Mehtab Singh]

We have no right to compare ourselves with Baba Budda Ji and copy him.

Thats exactly what I've been thinking. That was brilliant bhenji.