Gurdwara Phardaan. Should They Be Of Full Sikh Apperance.

[hardavlanda 0]

WJKWJF. There has recently been alot of discussion about sejh thari and Trimmed beards sikhs wanting to become pardhaan of our Gurdwara. Thankfully the majority of the sangaat agreed that the Pardhaan is the first point of representation of our Gurdwara and should be a representative of the sikh faith so as apperances are important he must be of full sikh apperance. NO CUT HAIR OR TRIMMED BEARD. What do other people of the Sikh Sangat think about this?.

What does the Sri Akhal Thakhet Sandesh think about this?.

We Should be promoting Sikhi. If a person who has no Sikhi values can become the forefront position of a Gurdwara than all sikhi values will be lost.

I feel that all Gurwaras should stick together and only give principle positions within the paqrbandakh committe to members who can promote sikhi by portraying a Full Sikhi Saroop.

If shej thari and beard trimmers feel they are being discriminated again than there is nothing stopping them growing their kesh and tying a dastar and becoming Pardhaan. Doing this is a minute scarafice compared to the Scarafices our Gurus made for OUR Sikh.

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

This is one position in our community that demands a full Sikh be in place. If the first point of contact at a Gurdwara is a 'relaxed' Sikh, that doesn't reflect well on the religion and the local community belonging to that religion. Although I always come back to the fact that I hope the Pardhaan is a full Sikh within himself as well as externally. But yes, this should be a given that Gursikh's should be the Pardhaan of a Gurdwara.

[Kharkooartsy 57]

yes because pardhans of our gurudwara aren't thats why no one talks about taking amrit ever not even on vaisakhi day and no one does ardaas for shaheeds even on 6th June.. we have to get their permission if we cant have sikhi posters in our gurudwara (i mean to get people to do paath) when people were doing chaupai sahib paaths i taped posters everywhere before langar went downstairs came back upstairs and people told me that they saw gurudwara secretary take them down..

then i put them up again and he took them down again.. then i made a lot of cds and wrote about chaupai sahib paaths on the cover.. haha clever me.. but its a pain to have pardhans that don't really care about sikhi.. all they care about is getting enough donations so they could finally have a party hall that they could rent out and make gurudwara into a hang out place.. .because thats what they said in announcements..they were like.. ahh.. sangat ji donate so we could make this gurudwara into a community place... since we are getting old we need a place where we could get together and do things together o yeah. and then the map of how they want the gurudwara had party hall in it... sadly people were like yeah.. good they are making gurudwara bigger and me and few other people were against it..

i know everything sounds so negative but its a pain to see all this happen..

People please.. dont donate your dasvand to your local gurudwara if it has enough already.. give to the shaheed families in india someone mentioned khalsa aid... (dont start yelling) if you dont like khalsa aid.. then tell jathebandis that you like to organize something that would help out them because they are our jumevari...

or pingalwara is a good organization too.. help there..

Stop giving money for party halls that are only gona lead to further beadbi..!!

[Tikka 1]

Totally agree brother... Our Sikhi is used as cover up to benefit those who think their in a position of power against the sangat who voted them in. Pardans here me know we elect you to run the daily routine and manage the gurdawara so it's ready for us the sangat don't forget ur also the sangat don't exploit our trust in u don't exploit Sikhi. Don't laugh and sneer when u hear about another local gurdawara being run badly instead name and shame them gather and protest at the wrong doing. We need more true bloods not just big mouths we need groups who are ready by the door when required to protect our gods house. I am r all u ?

[chatanga 1,058]

People please.. dont donate your dasvand to your local gurudwara if it has enough already.. give to the shaheed families in india someone mentioned khalsa aid... (dont start yelling) if you dont like khalsa aid.. then tell jathebandis that you like to organize something that would help out them because they are our jumevari...

or pingalwara is a good organization too.. help there..

Stop giving money for party halls that are only gona lead to further beadbi..!!

Good on ya Bro. I really like your thinking. Spread these views around the sangat, and this will make the committee think. I went thru this similiar thing, and it has been over a year since i put any money in the gurdawara golak. i just save it for the youths who do parchaar in our village in panjab.

Dont give money to anti-gurmat people. we have to make a stand.

[Whitehorse 3]

Is it not the case that the Pardhaan is effectively the 'executive chairman' of the gurdwara committee and the Granthi is the spritual head.

If this is the case, then I don't see that it is important that the Pardhaan should be of full sikhi saroop.

[Only five 1,126]

Is it not the case that the Pardhaan is effectively the 'executive chairman' of the gurdwara committee and the Granthi is the spritual head.

If this is the case, then I don't see that it is important that the Pardhaan should be of full sikhi saroop.

If you want to look at that way then your completely mistaken. Have you taken a look at Harmandar Sahib and Sri Akal Takht Sahib. Also have you explored the miri and piri of the Khalsa Panth? Sikhi base for any leader is spiritual and then Soldier. The soldier part applies to stroke of the pen and the carrying of weapons. The pardhaan has to carry both aspects along with the Granthi. Inorder for a pardhaan to run the Gurdwara according to Sikhi, he has to know the spiritual side and have the saroop of Guru Sahib. No person is given a cop out for not adorning the Saroop.

In your western twisted world where hell is the destination, your arguement would be true.

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

@ onlyfive - The pardhaan should always be a full Sikh, as I've stated earlier in this thread.

However your line "In your western twisted world where hell is the destination, your arguement would be true" is a bit strong. You sound like one of those intolerant Islamic fundamentalists! Would this be the same Western world where a lot of good Sikhs reside? As much as I don't kowtow to any white folk, the western world isn't 'that' bad. Its what the individual makes of it that determines whether its hell or heaven.

[Whitehorse 3]

@ onlyfive - In your western twisted world where hell is the destination, your argument would be true.

I always find it amusing when people benefiting from all the comforts the West offers (democracy, free education, good healthcare, freedom to worship, good infrastructure, free media) describe it as being twisted.

If they find it so twisted, why don't they move back to the Punjab?

In any case, the Pardhaan is typically elected by the sangat, so the Sangat can make their own judgement on what they believe is important - a full Sikh or a Sikh who has the ability to manage a Gurdwara and promote its role within the local community. A full Sikh may be the best person to do that - or may not be.

[SinghWarrior 102]

All Pardaans should ideally be Amritdhaari and in full Sikhi Saroop, since they should be role models. However, not everything is black and white. At Grays Gurdwara, you had a mona president completely against the party hall and telling the locals not to have the party hall. On the other hand, you had "Amritdharis" who were pushing for the party hall. In this case, I prefer the mona as president, who at least stands for sikhi principles, despite acknowledging his own personal shortcomings.

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

@ Whitehorse - "If they find it so twisted, why don't they move back to the Punjab?"

I wouldn't go that far either! :D

Our ancestral homeland does have its fair share of issues, most of which I despair that such things could happen. As much as I prefer living in the West, its not perfect by any means. The greatest 'triumph' of the West (if one can refer to it in this manner) is the illusion of democracy and freedom that it provides. Whereas the actual truth is so far from these 'hallowed' ideals its actually quite terrifying. But anyways that's another debate for another day.

Anyway like I said before, the upper echelons of the Gurudwara must be occupied by people of full Sikhi saroop, with the requisite knowledge and lifestyle that being a true Gursikh entails. Otherwise how would it motivate 'relaxed' Sikhs to aspire to be of full Sikhi saroop if everything is chilled out and "chalo koi ni" in the very place where SIkhi should be thriving?

Although I also understand SinghWarrior's point. Its a pickle!!!

[Pyara 288]

All Pardaans should ideally be Amritdhaari and in full Sikhi Saroop, since they should be role models. However, not everything is black and white. At Grays Gurdwara, you had a mona president completely against the party hall and telling the locals not to have the party hall. On the other hand, you had "Amritdharis" who were pushing for the party hall. In this case, I prefer the mona as president, who at least stands for sikhi principles, despite acknowledging his own personal shortcomings.

That's a valid point. Ironic as it sounds, the pardaan of Grays Gurdwara (who was a mona) was more panthic than the other "Sikhi saroop" committee members. ..There's no way the Grays beadbi situation would have been resolved if some of those "sikhi saroop" committee members were in the lead as they were pro party hall.

It's a shame....Things aint as clear cut as we'd like them to be...

[Only five 1,126]

@ onlyfive - In your western twisted world where hell is the destination, your argument would be true.

I always find it amusing when people benefiting from all the comforts the West offers (democracy, free education, good healthcare, freedom to worship, good infrastructure, free media) describe it as being twisted.

If they find it so twisted, why don't they move back to the Punjab?

In any case, the Pardhaan is typically elected by the sangat, so the Sangat can make their own judgement on what they believe is important - a full Sikh or a Sikh who has the ability to manage a Gurdwara and promote its role within the local community. A full Sikh may be the best person to do that - or may not be.

It's a shame when people don't understand clear sentences, but consider themselves to be some really educated........

If you read the sentence, which you're hung up over, clearly then it say YOUR western twisted world. NOT the western world of Canada, USA, UK or where ever. BUT YOUR western twisted world. In the real western world the executive officer represent the company to the full extent. If the company is a green company then the executive officer is green. If they are about sharing the wealth with certain charities then the executive officer implements that in his job. If they have to dress a certain way, then the CEO does it. In YOUR twisted world that is not true.

ONly Sabat Soorat people that have full sharda(faith and devotion) for Guru Sahib should ever be Pardhans. This is not saying all mona are bad. This a requirment for the Khalsa Panth if you want to lead a Gurdwara. How are you going to have a representative that does not even follow the most easist requirements. Keep hair uncut. What kind of message is that sending out to the rest of the Sikhs that want to be in Sikhi. The kathavachak is telling the sangat to keep hair uncut, but in walks a mona who is the Pardhaan of this Gurdwara. Hes put in a top position and the rest of the sangat isn't. What kind of teachings is he going to give the sangat. Don't cut your hair? how can he say that when he does it himself. How can he walk in a meeting with Panthic people and ask them to follow Panthic duties when he don't follow the easiest one himself? He has no stand, even though his views could be or are Panthic. This is a double standard for people in postions of leading and those that are apart of the sangat only. Guru Sahib is against this behavior.

This is not a either or decision. Whitehorse has made it this way because it fits his agenda. And some of you have fallen into his whitehorse traps. To him, it's about modernizing Sikhi that will look like the Christian religion, with many sects. IF you wish for union of the Panth then follow the great leaders that only put in Sabat Soorat Sikhs in positions that represent Sikhi. A pork eating Muslim can't be a representative of Islam. A cow eating Hindu can't be a representative of Brahmin faith. The Khalsa Panth holds Saint and Soldier in high regards. There is no option of one over the other.

[whyhellothere 17]

As much as I prefer living in the West, its not perfect by any means. The greatest 'triumph' of the West (if one can refer to it in this manner) is the illusion of democracy and freedom that it provides. Whereas the actual truth is so far from these 'hallowed' ideals its actually quite terrifying. But anyways that's another debate for another day.

Illuminati n freemasons! The evidence against them is utterly overwhelming and they've performed so much black magic it's ridiculous, it's no wonder everyones walking around in a daze. I see their symbols and dark magic everywhere esp in London, satans having a field day up here!

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

@ whyhellothere - I've read a lot about them but do they even really exist? I mean honestly. I was referring to the double standards of Western governments and their collusion with the Rupert Murdoch-owned media, although there is a lot of evidence for the existence of the Illuminati, etc. I dunno - it seems a bit far fetched to me. Yet I can't stop reading about these theories!!! :lol:

I sometimes wonder if these groups are aware of the 'Raj Karega Khalsa' prediction (is it a prediction or just a metaphorical statement?). Would they ever let the world reach a state where the Khalsa would have to return and basically take over the Middle East and South East Asia? What would happen then - would we fight with Rome (the Vatican)? So many questions.