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Bertrand Russell'S Pro Sikh Views - Cant Actually Find References From Non Sikh Source


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Apparantly Bertrand Russel said alot of positive things about the Sikh religion. However, when I trace the sources of these articles they all point to Sikh websites. Does anybody know where the comments below actually originated from?

From: "Atheist Society" <**********@hotmail.com>

To: ***********@hotmail.com

Subject: Dear Ali we have a problem, please help!

Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 20:40:30 +0000

Dear Ali, please help us. We were very impressed with your website

and agreed that religion in general is no longer needed, we can all

be humanistic and live in peace and harmony. We are in the process of

making a website which will hopefully help to destroy the religious

doctrines which divide humanity. We were doing great with knocking

out Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Baha'i, even Buddhism but

we have gotten very stuck with Sikhism. This religion is (to put it

nicely) "a big pain in the <banned word filter activated>" (Please pardon the language) We have

only found one site which tries (very poorly) to argue that even this

religion is not needed, but the argument is irrational and very

unscientific unlike the very rational arguments you use. When we read

the following from your website, we found what you said to be

amazingly interesting:

"Doubt Everything Find Your Own Light."

"Last Words

Dear friend, if you look for meaning in life, don’t look for it in

religions; don’t go from one cult to another or from one guru to the

next. You can expend all your life or look for eternity and will find

nothing but disappointment and disillusionment. Look instead in

service to humanity. You will find “meaning” in your love for other

human beings. You can experience God when you help someone who needs

your help. The only truth that counts is the love that we have for

each other. This is absolute and real. The rest is mirage, fancies of

human imagination and fallacies of our own making." By Ali Sina

Why is this interesting? Because we found this religion of Sikhism to

be in agreement with you! This is why we have a problem. We tried to

look at their holy text (Adi Granth) but didnt find the usual

absurdities we found in the other religious books. In fact its

refreshingly inspiring and very good!? Maybe you can have some better

luck. We tried to visit a couple of websites and got more of a shock.

Did you know that they believed in Democracy, freedom of speech,

choice, expression, freedom of religion, pluralism, human rights,

equality between men and women, equality of all people regardless of

race, religion, caste, creed, status etc. 300 years before the

existance of the USA! Theirs is the only religion which says in their

religious scriptures that women are equal in every respect to men.

They even had women soldiers leading armies in to battle against "you

know who" (The usual suspects - Muslims!) Their history is a proud

one, they fought in both World Wars. Even Hitler praised them for

their bravery and Aryan heritage!

Dear Ali, this religion is hard for us to try and criticise but you

are an expert and may find some faults overlooked by us. In their

holy book, there is a round earth, water is made from chemical

elements, there is even mention of the evoution process, big bang and

life on other planets! This is pretty crazy and amazing stuff, who

would have thought that these New York taxi drivers (There are lots

of Sikh taxi drivers in NY) would have such an amzing faith? We read

up some information of what Bertrand Russell had to say about

Sikhism, this is the man who destroyed Christianity (same applies to

Islam and Judaism) and exposed its absurdities, but even this great

man got stuck when it came to Sikhism! In fact he gave up and said

"that if some lucky men survive the onslaught of the third world war

of atomic and hydrogen bombs, then the Sikh religion will be the only

means of guiding them.

Russell was asked that he was talking about the third world war, but

isn't this religion capable of guiding mankind before the third world

war?

In reply, Russell said, "Yes, it has the capability, but the Sikhs

have not brought out in the broad daylight, the splendid doctrines of

this religion which has come into existence for the benefit of the

entire mankind. This is their greatest sin and the Sikhs cannot be

freed of it."

Please bear in mind that Bertrand Russell was a great philosopher and

free thinker. We have been trying for weeks now to find a way to

fairly and rationally criticize and find fault with this religion but

have failed. We even found out that there are many people converting

to this religion in the USA and Europe as well as Russia (Mostly well

educated and affluent white people). We tried to find some of their

literature and see what kind of claims they make, but unfortunatley

they have no missionary material as they do not have missionsaries!

People become Sikh by learning usually by chance or by coming in to

contact with them. They are currently the 5th biggest religion in the

world and growing quite fast in the west and Russia.

Please help us as we are stuck, to give you an example of they are

all about we found the following websites:

http://www.sikhnet.com (This is a pretty good site and helpful)

http://www.hope.at/sikhism (This site is very easy to follow, check

it out, they have a Womans section and a Martyrs section, it looks

like that you are not the only one trying to expose the falseness of

Islam, Sikhs scholars did it hundreds of years ago and got killed for

it!)

http://www.sikhs.org (This is the site that was on CNN when Sikhs in

the USA were mistaken for Arabs and Middle Easterners and were

attacked by mindless morons)

Please help us out, we cant make our website about religion being the

cause of war and disharmony when we have this one and only religion

which makes a hell of a lot of sense! lol (I thought Atheism had all

the answers but were kind of stuck now.)

We look forward to hearing from you, we respect your great views and

want to promote them to everyone, thank you for your time, take care.

Dr. John Smith

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Maybe He Could Be Contacted From AliSina.Org. And If Confirmed

Then,

We Should Be Spreading This EVERYWHERE !!!!!

We Should Be Spreading This EVERYWHERE ANYWAY !!!!! LOTS OF TRUTH THERE !!!!! BUT BETTER TO CONFIRM !!!!!

THE WHOLE WORLD WILL FALL IN LOVE WITH KHALSA DHARMA !!!!!

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I couldn't find anything regarding that but i did find this while searching randomly.

I'd love to see the actual source people are using. At any rate, even if it's false it doesn't change anything. happy.gif I've tried searching before after looking at the quotes supposedly by Bertrand Russell, couldn't find any at all.

Unrelated:

Full Text Database:Title:Sikh Connection to Air-India Crash Is Unproved.Source:New York Times; 7/23/1985, p26, 0pDocument Type:ArticleAbstract:To the Editor: In ''The Bad New Days'' (column, July 10), Russell Baker regrettably links the 12 million Sikhs in India with the ranks of Irish Republican Army bombers and Central America's right-wing death squads, thus exposing some uninformed opinion or bias. Despite their meager percentage (1.5 percent) among the 700 million Indians, Sikhs have toiled to make India prosperous, self-reliant and strong. [ABSTRACT FROM PUBLISHER] Copyright of New York Times is the property of New York Times and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use. This abstract may be abridged. No warranty is given about the accuracy of the copy. Users should refer to the original published version of the material for the full abstract. (Copyright applies to all Abstracts.)

Sikh Connection to Air-India Crash Is Unproved

To the Editor:

In ''The Bad New Days'' (column, July 10), Russell Baker regrettably links the 12 million Sikhs in India with the ranks of Irish Republican Army bombers and Central America's right-wing death squads, thus exposing some uninformed opinion or bias.

Despite their meager percentage (1.5 percent) among the 700 million Indians, Sikhs have toiled to make India prosperous, self-reliant and strong.

Their excessive sacrifices during the independence movement and in the wars against China and Pakistanto preserve India's territorial integrity are well documented. Therefore, to label Sikhs as secessionist or terrorist is both naive and preposterous.

Presumably, Mr. Baker associates the Sikhs with militant organizations practicing terror because of the Air-India plane disaster last month. The alleged connection of the Sikhs to the tragic crash of Air-India's 747 is primarily due to the bomb scenario created by the Indian authorities. Unfortunately, to legitimize their actions - namely, the army assault on Sikh places of worship across Punjab in June 1984 and the organized massacre of Sikhs as an aftermath of Indira Gandhi's death in November 1984 -Indian officials are bent on propagating an anti-Sikh campaign to dishonor, discredit and debilitate the Sikhs worldwide.

Investigators of the wreckage, however, so far speculate that the crash may be due to human error or a mechanical fault and not a bomb. Still, reading the coverage on the lost jumbo jet, one would unequivocally think that Sikh extremists were responsible. The world press, like the Indian authorities, is holding Sikhs guilty unless proved innocent - a primeval practice for respected institutions of the civilized world. Such an assessment is an insult to the 14 million Sikhs globally and a disservice to your read-ers. GULBARG SINGH BASI President The Sikh Study Circle Dunwoody, Ga., July 10, 1985

Late City Final Edition

Copyright of New York Times is the property of New York Times and its content may not be copied or emailed to multiple sites or posted to a listserv without the copyright holder's express written permission. However, users may print, download, or email articles for individual use.

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I know this probably wont go down well with some, but I feel the way we are constantly looking for validation of our faith via complimentary western sources is pretty lame and smacks of lack of confidence in ourselves.

If we can pull out 10 western thinkers who are proSikhi, then someone could also pull out 10 of them that are anti. Besides the average bod in the west isn't really interested in who said what so long ago (unless it reinforces what they believe in the first place). I dare you to ask 5 average whites who Bertrand Russel is and see what reply you get.

Besides this stuff has been out for ages and it doesn't make much of a difference.

Singhs, find some new ways to promote our faith in a way that isn't virtually 'begging for acceptance'.

Time to think outside the box. We've become really lazy like this now.

So true.

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Some Quick Points,

This is not looking for any validation for our faith! This is simply sharing our faith with the words of someone who is coming from an unbias viewpoint on the greatness of Sikhi (who was trying to find fault!) When someone from a particular faith shares with others about their faith, that has a bias! Sikhi is for ALL !! NOT JUST BLOODY PUNJAABEES! So this is a good tool that someone can appreciate as they will see it is coming from an unbias viewpoint. It will bring them BOTH closer to Sikhi!

Who cares about those that attack? Sikhi is not only for Punjabees! When two people who are sharing about Sikhi (but are not Sikhs themselves yet) it further strengthens perhaps their views on Sikhi!

It’s not about asking five average Joes on the street. It’s about using the internet, and let those come to see this perspective! Sikhi is to be shared with the world! It doesn’t matter if they know who the peoples are! The only point is, this is one of many tools to share Sikhi! Not the only tool!

It doesn’t matter if it has been out for ages! When someone who hasn’t read it before, reads it now, for them it is new!

Who is begging for acceptance? LOL! The greatest Karma in the world is sharing Sikhi! The greatest Paap is NOT! Acceptance! LOL! People who come from that point of view, are the real beggars! Sikhi is about TRUTH! THE TRUE MISSION OF LIFE! ITS ABOUT SOUL !! EVERYONE SHOULD BE BLESSED WITH SIKHI !!!!!

It’s you who is not thinking out of the Box! Sharing Sikhi with every means is good! That’s not being lazy! Not doing anything to share Sikhi with the world is Being Lazy! When someone writes about Sikhi with passion (especially when they are coming from a Non-Sikh AND ALL Backgrounds) the spirit in those words can be very powerful for others (from Non-Sikh Backgrounds And Even Those Who Are Weaker In Mind And Faith But From Sikh Backgrounds!) People from Sikh Backgrounds who think they OWN Sikhi are the Worst Golak Chors Around!

SHARE SIKHI WITH THE WORLD !!!!!

USE EVERY TOOL POSSIBLE !!!!!

(But it is important to make sure it is authentic. Even if it’s not, it’s very creative sharing a lot of Truths! But then we must present it as such.)

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this quote is fake. I reserached through with this quotes a few years back and it came up false. Not surprised! i contacted Mcmaster university since the Bertrand Russel archives exists with them and these sikh related quotes are false.

Most likely some low self esteem <banned word filter activated> made these quotes up.

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