Sikhnet Promotes Homosexuality

[deadbodydisposal]

I think if we were a dominant faith, it would probably be happening.

I agree with Kaljugi let us just look at a miniture example, im not having a go at this website at all ... BUT ... most of us see this as a progressive site run by "youth" people like ourselves and yet how many threads get knocked off for bringing up a controversial issues, people get put on the monitor list for voicing opinions... if we can't follow freedom of speech/opinion/style of living etc. on a Sikhi based website how will we ever be able to implement them in the larger global context.

[deadbodydisposal]

Then talk to Sri Waheguru ji and tell him, hes arrogant. Any form of kaam is bad, whether that be heterosexual or homosexual. Marriage in Sikhi is for man and woman. A person's common sense is not counted to rationalize homosexuality into Gurmat.

Yes homosexuality existed in the Gurus time, so be kind to show us the Shabads that say homosexuality is okay in Sikhi?

1. "Then talk to Sri Waheguru ji and tell him, hes arrogant. " well... that sounds all fine and dandy but i highly doubt you know anymore about God's stance on homosexuality than the rest of us, so that statement just sounds idoiotic... unless you reached brahmgian which i highly doubt because you wouldnt be wasting time on SS... moving on ...

"Marriage in Sikhi is for man and woman." did god tell you that too?

"A person's common sense is not counted to rationalize homosexuality into Gurmat." WOW!! i never knew Sikhi propagated for getting rid of your critical/rational thinking!! oh i was so sadly misguided!! =(

2. i dont have to show anything because there is nothing in bani about homosexuality thats the whole point... where does it say its wrong?? all bani says is everyones equal am i not correct?

Mod note: Humble benti from mods, please keep it cool, no need to get personal with other members

[Only five]

2. i dont have to show anything because there is nothing in bani about homosexuality thats the whole point... where does it say its wrong?? all bani says is everyones equal am i not correct?

So you don't know where Gurbani speaks on marriage and kaam? I know you have not reached brahmgian, so then how can you say Gurbani doesn't speak on homosexuality? Stop your aggorant ways and have a civil discussion. Starting off by calling others arrogant is not going to get you anywhere here.

[S1ngh]

Read Akal Takht Sahib Sandesh, Gurmata on this topic. My humble request is that we should not try to over-smart our sikh institution, Sri Akal takht Sahib. Akal Takht Sahib is there for us to make such decision for sikh panth just like they did for us in the past... If you have your own set of opinions then it is fine with us but we request you to keep it with yourself. We respect all humans regardless of their lifestyle but when it comes to issues like gay marriages in sikh society or community; then sadly we have to strongly disagree such relationships because of the edict, hukamnama from our institution in Amritar.

From TOI

After a meeting at the Akal Takht secretariat on Wednesday of Sikh high priests, among them the jathedar of Akal Takht, Giani Gurbachan Singh, jathedar of Takht Damdama Sahib, Giani Balwant Singh Nandgarh, and Jathedar of Takht Kesgarh Sahib, Giani Tarlochan Singh.

"Gay marriages are not acceptable in Sikhism and have no place in Gurmat," said Singh Sahib Gurbachan Singh, adding that the five Sikh high priests have issued strict directions to all gurdwaras across the globe to abide by the diktat.

From Sikhnet News

An edict issued from Akal Takht nearly four years ago had not only prohibited Sikhs from being involved in gay relationships but had described such a relationship as 'anti religious'. This edict was issued when there was a hot debate on legalising gay relationships in Canada, where a large number of Sikhs are settled.

Giani Gurcharan Singh said Sikhs should stick to the edict and set an example by keeping themselves away from such all "unnatural relationships".

"The marriage verses enshrined in the Guru Granth Sahib are meant to solemnise weddings only between persons of opposite sexes," he said.

Giani Joginder Singh Vidanti, a former Takht Jathedar who had passed the edict said that it was still valid for Sikhs, no matter what the courts say or interpret.

"Sikhism is against all forms of unnatural relationships," he added while opining there was an urgent need for building a public opinion against gay relationships.

"Religion has got a very important part to play in halting gay relationships and a public opinion must be built against gay relationships," he added.

Akal Takht Sahib is very liberal in its practice and their decision making process is 100% democratic process; consisting of approval/meetings with all panj head granthi sahibs of darbar sahib and countless meetings/phone calls with jahedars of panj takahts and other heads of sikh jathaband before passing such sandesh/hukam/order to our kaum.

[Singh559]

Although I agree with the decision, I don't trust Gurbachan Singh at all, nor anyone mentioned in this article:

http://www.panthic.org/news/126/ARTICLE/3768/2007-12-26.html

[deadbodydisposal]

So you don't know where Gurbani speaks on marriage and kaam? I know you have not reached brahmgian, so then how can you say Gurbani doesn't speak on homosexuality? Stop your aggorant ways and have a civil discussion. Starting off by calling others arrogant is not going to get you anywhere here.

Stop your aggorant ways and have a civil discussion. .... yeah but personal messaging people asking to come "say it to my face" is the pinnacle of civility... LOL! FAIL.

So you don't know where Gurbani speaks on marriage and kaam? .... i dont see how marriage and kaam have anything to do with a person being homosexual

I know you have not reached brahmgian, so then how can you say Gurbani doesn't speak on homosexuality? ... becuase i've gained an amazing ability... wait for it ... wait for it... the ability to read.

Anyways, people keep bringing up GOD being against homosexuality and it going againt Bani, if its so provide passages from Guru Granth Sahib that justifies that... and if you can't then everyone should stop justifiying their opinions against homosexuality by bring up Bani and God, because in the end none of us are God.

[Singh559]

Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti is seen in the article (the person who passed the verdict)

http://www.panthic.org/news/126/ARTICLE/3768/2007-12-26.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_Sikhism

So does this mean a person who is born as being gay should marry a person of an opposite sex. Wouldn't that be equivalent to asking a straight person to marry a person of the same gender?

So the reasons for homosexuals not being able to marry is:

1) They marry because of kaam

2) They cannot produce offspring

Counters to these points are:

1) Not all people marry, therefore they do not produce offspring, so does that make that wrong?

2) What if two people of the same gender marry and do not have any kaam thoughts or relation, but are spiritually married? Are people saying it's impossible to not have kaam, if it is impossible, wouldn't it be impossible for customary marriages (male and female) to

3) Do these Jathedars at the Akaal Takht represent Akaal Purakh perfectly, these are all people like us, who are elected. What if in the future it is said it is okay for people of same gender to marry?

4) I would say the trustability of many of the jathedars is questionable in terms of having the best interest for Sikhi. I would argue Gurbachan and Joginder Singh are either RSS agents and/or Badal's puppets.

I think this needs to be discussed openly, i hope this thread stays open and only personal attacks and other bad things are moderated.

[Only five]

Stop your aggorant ways and have a civil discussion. .... yeah but personal messaging people asking to come "say it to my face" is the pinnacle of civility... LOL! FAIL.

I asked you to own up to your comments. I didn't slander you first. You want others to treat you with respect when you don't respect others? This shows you are arrogant.

i dont see how marriage and kaam have anything to do with a person being homosexual

Look up in a dictionary what homosexuality means.

I know you have not reached brahmgian, so then how can you say Gurbani doesn't speak on homosexuality? ...

becuase i've gained an amazing ability... wait for it ... wait for it... the ability to read.

Actually you don't because the Anand karaj Bani, Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji, and a Salok by Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj on ang 963 speaks on homosexuality. Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaar speak on homosexuality. Ever heard of, everyone person is your brother, sister, father, and mother, except your wife?

You need to be civil. I bet if this conversation was in person, you would not act like an arrogant person. Being infront of a computer screen does not give you the right to treat others like dirt. But if you want to treat others like dirt. Then its best you do it to there faces.

[S1ngh]

Although I agree with the decision, I don't trust Gurbachan Singh at all, nor anyone mentioned in this article:

http://www.panthic.o...2007-12-26.html

Veer meray, Its not the matter of our personal liking or not. Its about the sandesh coming from Sri Akal Takht Sahib and that hit the point whether its thug darsho or about gay marriages. Singh Sahib Giani Gurbachan singh or anyone who is jathedar of sri akal takht sahib will earn respect from us if everything stays in control under their time as being sewadar of akal takht sahib.

[Singh559]

I asked you to own up to your comments. I didn't slander you first. You want others to treat you with respect when you don't respect others? This shows you are arrogant.

Look up in a dictionary what homosexuality means.

I know you have not reached brahmgian, so then how can you say Gurbani doesn't speak on homosexuality? ...

Actually you don't because the Anand karaj Bani, Sri Sukhmani Sahib ji, and a Salok by Satguru Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj on ang 963 speaks on homosexuality. Bhai Gurdas ji's Vaar speak on homosexuality. Ever heard of, everyone person is your brother, sister, father, and mother, except your wife?

You need to be civil. I bet if this conversation was in person, you would not act like an arrogant person. Being infront of a computer screen does not give you the right to treat others like dirt. But if you want to treat others like dirt. Then its best you do it to there faces.

Good point, but are these the quotes you're talking about? :

ਪਰ ਤ੍ਰਿਅ ਰੂਪੁ ਨ ਪੇਖੈ ਨੇਤ੍ਰ ॥

"With your eyes, do not even gaze (in a lustful manner) upon the beauty of another."

(Sukhmani Sahib, Ang 274)

I don't see how this only refers to homosexuality if this is the line you were referring to. This refers to anyone.

ਦੇਖਿ ਪਰਾਈਆਂ ਚੰਗੀਆਂ ਮਾਵਾਂ ਭੈਣਾਂ ਧੀਆਂ ਜਾਣੈ ॥

"Men should look at the opposite gender as mothers, sisters and daughters, (women should look at the opposite gender as fathers, brothers and sons)."

(Bhāī Gurdās: Vār 29/ Paurī 11)

Again, I don't see how this says anything against homosexuality.

I think it would help if we clarify this:

Is a homosexual (physically a male) considered a man. Doesn't that mean he could view a person of the opposite gender as mother, sisters and daughters as well?

I am personally against homosexual marriage and will justify it later. I just want to see how this unfolds.

Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti is seen in the article (the person who passed the verdict)

http://www.panthic.o...2007-12-26.html

http://en.wikipedia....ity_and_Sikhism

So does this mean a person who is born as being gay should marry a person of an opposite sex. Wouldn't that be equivalent to asking a straight person to marry a person of the same gender?

So the reasons for homosexuals not being able to marry is:

1) They marry because of kaam

2) They cannot produce offspring

Counters to these points are:

1) Not all people marry, therefore they do not produce offspring, so does that make that wrong?

2) What if two people of the same gender marry and do not have any kaam thoughts or relation, but are spiritually married? Are people saying it's impossible to not have kaam, if it is impossible, wouldn't it be impossible for customary marriages (male and female) to

3) Do these Jathedars at the Akaal Takht represent Akaal Purakh perfectly, these are all people like us, who are elected. What if in the future it is said it is okay for people of same gender to marry?

4) I would say the trustability of many of the jathedars is questionable in terms of having the best interest for Sikhi. I would argue Gurbachan and Joginder Singh are either RSS agents and/or Badal's puppets.

I think this needs to be discussed openly, i hope this thread stays open and only personal attacks and other bad things are moderated.