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Guru Nanak/God


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Sadh Sangat Ji,

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was not God, nor was he an avatar of God. Guru Nanak Dev Ji had merged his self(mind and body) in the supreme light(JOT/God), there was no duality, all his actions and utterances were directed by God.

Then what was Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj?

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The thing to remember is that Guru Sahib is not a physical body - they never die/ take birth, and have no limitations. So the question of God taking birth never arises. That's why all 10 Guru jis are in fact 1. The physical manifestation of Akaal Purakh.

It's the same for Gurbani. We might do antam sanskaars for birdh saroops of Guru Sahib, but Gurbani is a form of Akaal Purakh and cannot be destroyed.

See Guru Granth Sahib Ji in this way and having their darshan takes on a whole new meaning and becomes a very powerful experience.

I understand that Guru and God are the same thing but Guru Nanak Sahibs body was born and grew old, so God/Guru Nanak Ji was awere that he was Himself God when born and know that how everything was going to happen right.

So when did God came into the body of Guru Sahib when He was born or later on.

Also since all Gurus are 1 jot weren't there two jots when Guru Nanak Ji and Guru Angad Sahib when living at the same time.

A while back i was watching a christian muslim debate and the muslim speaker said if Jesus was god did he have to go to the bathroom. Since Guru Nanak Ji is God did He have to do normal bodly functions.

Is there a good book that might explian how God came into human form that might help me out.

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The body was never the Guru, shabad (The Word) was. Guru Nanak Sahib Jee himself tells us this. When Guru Sahib went to meet Sadhu's on Sumer parbat, sadhu's asked Guru sahib who their Guru was. Satguru Ji replied

This Shabad is by Guru Nanak Dev Ji in Raag Raamkalee on Ang 942

kvx mUlu kvx miq vylw ]

kavan mool kavan math vaelaa ||

"What is the root, the source of all? What teachings hold for these times?

qyrw kvxu gurU ijs kw qU cylw ]

thaeraa kavan guroo jis kaa thoo chaelaa ||

Who is your guru? Whose disciple are you?

kvx kQw ly rhhu inrwly ]

kavan kathhaa lae rehahu niraalae ||

What is that speech, by which you remain unattached?

bolY nwnku suxhu qum bwly ]

bolai naanak sunahu thum baalae ||

Listen to what we say, O Nanak, you little boy.

eysu kQw kw dyie bIcwru ]

eaes kathhaa kaa dhaee beechaar ||

Give us your opinion on what we have said.

Bvjlu sbid lµGwvxhwru ]43]

bhavajal sabadh la(n)ghaavanehaar ||43||

How can the Shabad carry us across the terrifying world-ocean?""||43||

pvn ArMBu siqgur miq vylw ]

pavan ara(n)bh sathigur math vaelaa ||

From the air came the beginning. This is the age of the True Guru's Teachings.

sbdu gurU suriq Duin cylw ]

sabadh guroo surath dhhun chaelaa ||

The Shabad is the Guru, upon whom I lovingly focus my consciousness; I am the chaylaa, the disciple.

AkQ kQw ly rhau inrwlw ]

akathh kathhaa lae reho niraalaa ||

Speaking the Unspoken Speech, I remain unattached.

nwnk juig juig gur gopwlw ]

naanak jug jug gur gopaalaa ||

O Nanak, throughout the ages, the Lord of the World is my Guru.

eyku sbdu ijqu kQw vIcwrI ]

eaek sabadh jith kathhaa veechaaree ||

I contemplate the sermon of the Shabad, the Word of the One God.

gurmuiK haumY Agin invwrI ]44]

guramukh houmai agan nivaaree ||44||

The Gurmukh puts out the fire of egotism. ||44||

I've color coded in the hope that it will help you understand. Black is the question posed by Sadhu's and blue is the answer given by Dhan Sahib Shri Guru Nanak Sahib Jee. In red is the direct tuk which supports that Shabad has always been the Guru.

What you have to understand is, there is a certain order to the world. Guru sahib showed us how to live with in that order (physically) and yet be spiritually highest of the high.

Dhan Guru Nanak :L:

Also since all Gurus are 1 jot weren't there two jots when Guru Nanak Ji and Guru Angad Sahib when living at the same time.
That is incorrect. The Jot was hidden with in the body known as Guru Nanak. The day Guru Sahib gave gurgaddi to Bhai Lehna Jee, thereby making them Guru Angad Sahib Jee, that jot transferred bodies. It is documented in historical documents that when Guru Gobind Singh Jee gave gurgaddi to Shri Guru Granth Sahib Jee, the jot was actually seen by many to move from the body known as Guru Gobind Singh Jee and disappear into Guru Granth Sahib Jee.
Since Guru Nanak Ji is God did He have to do normal bodly functions.
When you think about this, does it really matter either way?

If you still have doubts, then please accept my apologizes as I'm not wise enough to answer your questions.

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Sadh Sangat Jee,

I am speaking as per my understanding, so please do forgive me for any mistakes.

Then what was Satguru Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaj?

There was the material body(the vessel/MAYA) and the JOT/Guru.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji acted according to the True(Sat) Guru's will, the True Guru is God(Waheguru).

"The One Supreme Lord is Unique. He is Immortal, Unborn, without caste, and without involvement. He is Unfathomable, Beyond the Reach of Senses, Without Forms or Lines. Searching for Him, I found Him present within us."

(Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Rag Bilawal, Thitti, p838, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

So when did God came into the body of Guru Sahib when He was born or later on.

God is present in all and everywhere.

So the answer to this question would be God was present in his body from the start.

"O man, why do you go to forest in search of God?

God, though detached (Nirlaip), yet dwells everywhere and abides within you. (1) Pause.

Just as fragrance abides in a flower, and reflection is in a mirror, so does God dwell in you. O brother, search Him within you. (1)

Believe it, that He is within you and outside every where. There is everywhere but One God. This is the understanding imparted by the Guru to me.

Nanak, the slave, says: without knowing one's self, the moss of doubt is not removed. (2)"

(Sri Guru Teg Bahadur Ji, Rag Dhanasari, p684, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

Also since all Gurus are 1 jot weren't there two jots when Guru Nanak Ji and Guru Angad Sahib when living at the same time.

No, refer to above. There always was/is only ONE JOT.

"He is, He will be. The creation will end but not He, Who has created the phenomena."

(Sri Guru Nanak Ji, Jup Ji, Pauri 27, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji and Sri Guru Angad Dev Ji had the same JOT, there was no transfer, since the same JOT is everywhere.

"When I cast my look around, I see none other. One pervades all places, and One abides in all hearts."

(Sri Guru Nanak Dev Ji, Rag Asa, Patti, p433, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a messenger sent by God, his material body is no longer here, but the light(JOT) still is. This light, also called SABD/SABAD, is the Sat Guru(Waheguru). This light has been here from the beginning and is still here, it is manifest in Gurbani(Bani Guru, Guru Hai Bani) and the Khalsa Panth.

"The Guru is the Mother, the Father, the God of gods, the Master. The Guru is the Mate, the Destroyer of Ignorance, the Kinsman, the Brother. The Guru is Beneficent , Who Blesses us with His Name; by His Mantra in the mind held. The Guru is the Embodiment of Peace, Truth, Wisdom, the Philosopher's Stone, Whose touch turns into Gold, and more. The Guru is the Place of Pilgrimage, the Pool of Nectar, bathing in which brings Infinite Wisdom. The Guru is the Creator, the Destroyer of all sins, purifying all sinners. The Guru is from the beginning of Time, through ages upon ages, dwelling on Whose Mantra one is saved. O God Gurdev bless us with Your association that we ignorant sinners are saved. The Guru is the Transcendent Lord, the God of gods, Nanak salutes the Guru-God."

(Sri Guru Arjan Dev Ji, Bawan Akhari, Gauri Rag, p250, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

Since Guru Nanak Ji is God did He have to do normal bodly functions.

Once again, Guru Nanak Dev Ji(the person) is not God.

"The Lord Himself creates all, and Himself enjoys His bounties. (1) Pause.

It is the Lord, Who hears and it is He Who sees. He is Unmanifest, as well as Manifest. He is the Creator, as well as the Destroyer. He pervades all, yet remains unaffected and detached. (He is NOT affected by the Maya or the Matter of Five Elements, He creates).(1)

It is He Who utters and it is He Who understands in creatures. (Creatures are His part and parcel). Therefore, it is He Who appears to come, and it is He Who goes. Absolute is my Lord and also all that is manifest. It is through His Light (Sat Guru) in Nanak, he sees Him in all, all over. (2)"

(Sri Guru Arjun Dev Ji, Rag Gond, p862, Sri Guru Granth Sahib)

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After sending various bhagats and avtaars, Akaal Purkh came themselves in human form, as Guru Sahib. That much is clear from Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Sri Dasam Granth, Sri Sarbloh Granth, Bhai Gurdas Ji's Vaaran, Katha of all Mahapursh.

It's the reason why we (sikhs) aren't aiming for 'heaven', but total merger in Waheguru. The only way our Guru can offer this is because they themselves were a physical manifestation of Akaal Purkh. Reading Jaap Sahib and Akaal Ustat shows that for Waheguru, even apparent paradoxes are not an issue.

It is also the reason for Guru Ji's immense, unrivalled humility.

At the end of the day, it comes down to individual bhavna/ belief/ avastha.

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  • 2 months later...

Sangat i have been wondering since God is everywhere and in everything. So when God Became Guru Nanak Ji did he cease to be everywhere because he was in Guru Nanak Ji alone.

God is like for example electric energy, but that energy exprsesses itself, by shining in a small bulb. The bulb is not the energy. In the same way, the body is inert and perishable, it is just a means for the energy to express itself.... when the bulb is broken, that electric energy is still there, where it should be, with the only difference that now the body , the bulb, the covering, is not there for a moment....

2. Who was running the universe ... and is still running and it will still go on running

3. in Jap Ji Sahib it says God is Ajoonie that He isn't born or dies. So For Guru Nanak Sahib Ji He was in a human body.

4. So when did God came into the body of Guru Nanak Sahib Ji when he was born or later on.

5. Did God ever before Guru Nanak Sahib Ji come into any other bodies. Like other People or Was this the first time God came into a human body.

I know we shouldn't be asking this kind of questions but I really have been thinking about them for so long

.////// Surely you can and should ask, to be able to dissolve your doubts....then once your mind is satisfied, you can walk easier on the path of ruhaniyat///////.

Dear brother, Wahiguru, is without begining, without ending, and He is everywhere, there is no such place where He is not. He is a different type of creator, than we humans. Here the painter paints a picture .... the picture (his creative work ) is at one place, and the painter is at other place. But that is not the case with Akal Purukh, He created everything and is present in them like an image in a mirror, or the perfume in the flower. He comes to our physicall level to make Himself known to us, because we can not perceive Him neither with our gyan indriyas nor with our karam indriyas, and He is beyond mind and intellect. That is why in the bani it is written: Sochay Soch Na hovaee, je sochay lakhwaar. So then, how can we ever know about Him, or even love Him? As we see the Sun through the sunlight, we can see Wahiguru through the grace of a Satguru, that is why it is said: Ik Onkar.... Satgur Parsad. That is why He comes to our level, in a human form, so that He can infuse that knowledge and love for Him in us, he talks to us in our words, so that we may understand Him. He can not come in any other form, as it is below human level; be it animal, bird, fish, or tree, or even devis or devtas. Not even incarnations of Vishnu or Shiv, like Ram or Krishna, or the other 8 incarnations included. These incarnations of these gods come to reestablish order and peace on earth, they display supernatural powers, perform miracles.... and thus keep entangled the souls in creation, at most those who beleive in them go to Swarg or Baikunth. This is quite different, from when Wahiguru Himself assumes an human form, when He comes, He comes to redeem forever the souls from this creation, by attaching and showing us the way of Nam or Shabad, through it`s Simran. They do not perform any miracles, they earn their own livinghood, thay do not depend on alms, and they say nobody is high or low because of wealth,name and fame, but this distinction is made between those who have love in their hearts for Wahiguru or not, this is what really counts.

According to your 4 point, it could be well said, that yes He had com before in human forms,it has to be so, humans of any age or era are same, in the sense that none can by themselves know about Him, we are all covered by maya. And at the same time, He can not be unjust....how can He decide to come ata particular time for a particular number of souls..... So what about those souls who were incarnated before the coming of Guru Nanak? How can Wahiguru be unjust with them? Because if they did not come in contact with Nanak, does that means they are condemed? It is ridiculous to think in that way? Now do not ask who they were, it is for the historians that job, to trace that. But we should not be close minded, we have to reason, faith is stronger by comon sense and sound reasoning.

Wahiguru decides when He takes a human form, and then when He is at our level, He is born, and goes back in the same way as the rest of the humans, He is respectfull with His own designed ways.

Following is a beautifull shabad of Sache Patshah Guru Arjun Dev in raag Bialaval, where He clearly explains today`s topic ( your queries) :

aapeh mayl la-ay.

He Himself merges us with Himself.

jab tay saran tumaaree aa-ay tab tay dokh ga-ay.

When I came to Your Sanctuary, my sins vanished.

taj abhimaan ar chint biraanee saaDhah saran pa-ay.

Renouncing egotistical pride and other anxieties, I have sought the Sanctuary of the Holy Saints.

jap jap naam tumHaaro pareetam tan tay rog kha-ay.

Chanting, meditating on Your Name, O my Beloved, disease is eradicated from my body. ||1||

mahaa mugaDh ajaan agi-aanee raakhay Dhaar da-ay.

Even utterly foolish, ignorant and thoughtless persons have been saved by the Kind Lord.

kaho naanak gur pooraa bhayti-o aavan jaan rahay. ||2||1||126||

Says Nanak, I have met the Perfect Guru; my comings and goings have ended.

Such a nice bani....... It is true the saying : awar Kaaj tere kiteh na kaam... mil sadh sangat bhaj kewal Nam.

Our soul is same in esence as Wahiguru, that is why it has an natural urge to go go back to it`s origin. It is a different thing, that whether one is blessed to be on the right track of love and devotion, of Nam Simran, or one is unfortunate, by going astray with wrong methods and means. The difference between us and Him is that we are a drop, and He is an ocean, but through His grace, He makes that blessed soul an ocean from a drop,by merging it in Himself . That is His graetness, His Daya Meher, His Bakshish, His Parsad

Our true nature is the soul, and it is the soul (not the body or any part of it, neither any material ornament) which merges in Akal Purukh, that is why it is said : Shabad( Wahiguru ) Guru... Dhun( soul ) chela, when we leave our physicall body, by catching the Amrit Bani, or the Shabad inside us, which is our true Guru, we reach our true home Sach Khand.

We are souls, which is our true nature, and so obviously, the phisicall body is temporary, so if any spiritual activity has to be done, it is for the soul to be pure and inmaculate, it doest matter how so ever many baths one takes, it is the soul which has to be purified.... by purifying the inert body, we do not get any gyan . That is why Nam Simran is the highest form of true devotion, given to us by our Gurus. It is only for the soul. The body decays and is burnt, but the true dhan of Nam Simran is never burnt, nor robbed by the thiefs, neither the water can drown it , and this is what we are going to take with us when we go away. Our Gurus are more wiser than us to keep us binded into petty physical activities, that is not their real teachings, neither they ever meant so... they came to save our souls, we have to take care ourselves of our body by keeping it healthy. They( Gurus ) deal only with the soul, which has to go back to Sach Khand.

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Guest Ksingh5

------------------------------------------------------------------

God is not a person, has no dress, isnt in one body... god is everywhere and in all of us.

its sort of like god everywhere but maya is what seperates us from god. maya is kaam(desire) krodh(anger) lobh(greed) moh(attatchment) hakaar(ego).. we all human beings have all these things... people that do naam japp wash away their sins and get rid of maya so they become one with god...

the boundary between them and the world vanishes.

In sikhi philosophy isn't black and white. Guru Nanak Dev Jee recognized that Vaheguroojee is everywhere. Gurujee got rid of the maya so Guru Jee became jot of Vaheguroojee himself. Bhagat Kabeer Jee Bhagat Dhanna Jee all recognized that jot in them. Bhagat Kabeer Ji Bhagat Dhanna Jee and Guru Nanak Dev Jee became Vaheguroojee by meditating on Naam

Thats why their teachings are exactly the same

http://sikhitothemax...p?ShabadID=5772

Listen to this..

This isnt a question you need to ask others answer is in Gurbani..

Read Japji sahib and Jaap Sahib with translation or put it on follow with english translation

So you are saying Maya is a completely different entity to God?

Just say If God is the creator of all and maya is bad, why did God create maya in the first place?

God seems to be on an ego trip, God wants us to praise him and if don’t you will be punished (re-carnation, going to hell and other beliefs regarding punishment).

Everything is a huge contradiction.

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