Takht Patna Sahib, Hazoor Sahib to defy Nanakshahi

[stopsingh]

I would go for nanakshaheey calender !

Why ?

As many others point out we have relied on the BK calendar for centuries so why was there a need all of a sudden to change it ?

[Deep Singh]

I support Nanakshahi Calendar 100%!

Pal Singh Purewal who has designed it has had questions coming from "every possible" Sikh group....even modern scholars like Dr. HS Dilgeer are/were against it. also Kala Afghana ppl.....besides the tradional Taksals and the two Takhts outside Punjab. BUT HE HAS answared every single question put forward....and giving the complete reasons WHY this and that date was taken as the Gurpurab etc.

If anyone has any points...i have got his articles on my pc...i can translate if they are in punjabi or paste in here the english ones.

and i agree with what Bijla Singh ji said: why not come forward BEFORE such efforts are made! why cry afterwards!

[stopsingh]

I support Nanakshahi Calendar 100%!

Pal Singh Purewal who has designed it has had questions coming from "every possible" Sikh group....even modern scholars like Dr. HS Dilgeer are/were against it. also Kala Afghana ppl.....besides the tradional Taksals and the two Takhts outside Punjab. BUT HE HAS answared every single question put forward....and giving the complete reasons WHY this and that date was taken as the Gurpurab etc.

If anyone has any points...i have got his articles on my pc...i can translate if they are in punjabi or paste in here the english ones.

and i agree with what Bijla Singh ji said: why not come forward BEFORE such efforts are made! why cry afterwards!

Many groups did complain before it was implemented hence the reason why it was pulled back for a time. The SGPC were meant to have intellectals looking at it.

As for the canadians reasoning for the dates, what was wrong with the previous calendar that was used to celebrate every occasion for a few centuries.

[Deep Singh]

Yeah,

Actually they thought of bringing it out in 1999 (also before that there were thinking... ).

StopSingh, i believe the complaints were answared or atleast considered before designing the Nanakshahi calender. My point is: once it has been implemented by Akal Takht, and all discussions are over and the dates have been fixed according to what is the 'best' solution (not necessarily the traditional approach), everyone should accept that as the Panthic calender.

Do you think the Hijri or the Christian calenders are 'perfect'? Facts state that Jesus was in reality not born in December, still almost all christians celebrate that as his birthday. When fixing dates, on the basis of various accounts given, there have to be some considerations. We can't say that the way traditional (sanatan) dates are correct, if a majority of the accounts give some other date.

In fact, it is not a matter of this date or that date, it is a matter of ONE PANTHIC CELEBRATION! I don't think Guru Sahib really "bother" if we celebrate Gurpurabs a day before or after. The thing that matters is: we celebrate it, we remember our past, and we try to shape our future on the basis of their teachings and their doings. and we do it together!

[stopsingh]

Yeah,

Actually they thought of bringing it out in 1999 (also before that there were thinking... ).

StopSingh, i believe the complaints were answared or atleast considered before designing the Nanakshahi calender. My point is: once it has been implemented by Akal Takht, and all discussions are over and the dates have been fixed according to what is the 'best' solution (not necessarily the traditional approach), everyone should accept that as the Panthic calender.

Do you think the Hijri or the Christian calenders are 'perfect'? Facts state that Jesus was in reality not born in December, still almost all christians celebrate that as his birthday. When fixing dates, on the basis of various accounts given, there have to be some considerations. We can't say that the way traditional (sanatan) dates are correct, if a majority of the accounts give some other date.

In fact, it is not a matter of this date or that date, it is a matter of ONE PANTHIC CELEBRATION! I don't think Guru Sahib really "bother" if we celebrate Gurpurabs a day before or after. The thing that matters is: we celebrate it, we remember our past, and we try to shape our future on the basis of their teachings and their doings. and we do it together!

I for one do not have much faith in Giani Vendantis decision making abilities. Just look at some of his decisions like punishing Badal for violating the edict issued by Jathedar Ranjit Singh during the 1999 Vasaikhi celebrations. Then there is the case of so caled "baba" Dhanwant Su who raped a young girl.

If the Giani cannot make rationale decisions in such cases do you think he has the ability to make a decision regarding implementing a new calendar, frankly I think not.

Which experts were consulted ?

What were their qualifications in such subjects ?

Giani Puran Singh, had reservations about a separate calendar for Sikhs What if someone else comes up with a better alternative to Paul Singh Purewal's calendar. Will we change it again ?

I am of the view that we celebrated everything according to the BK calendar. This was done for centuries. To change somehting that we have stuck to is not right in my opinion as to me it suggests that what the Sikh Quam were doing in the past was not right.

What is tomorrow someone comes up with other alternatives like a plastic Kirpan or lycra kachere. There are things we should not change and the calendar in my view was one of them.

As you say what matters is that we celebrate the event and remember our past. So why could this not have been applied to the whole issue and the Sikh panth continued to use the BK calendar ? would have avoided all this trouble and splits in the Panth.

[Deep Singh]

Thanks for your views StopSingh!

I am not an expert on Nanakshahi Calender issue. But as far as i know of it's history, the Nanakshahi Cal. WAS used in the past ALSO! The fact that authors writings stories on Guru Sahiban wrote in Bikrami dates does not mean that they supported a Bikrami calender. For them this was just the method used at that time. It was used by Sikh journalists/writers of the Singh Sabha era. I believe also in Maharaja Ranjeet Singh's time. So this is NOT a new invention. Because of the Sanatani influence among different groups, the implementation of NC has been difficult. Sikh scholars have also had different opinions upon which dates they want to have....

Brother as far as i can see...they issue is not; IF we want to have NC, the issue is what kind or it's details. Even Taksali Singhs in the video Khalistani veer is telling about say that they are not against a seperate calender for the Sikh Quam. They encourage such step, but they are against the usage of different dates which do not correspond to the old Bikrami calender. Mainly because of the shift from lunar to solar calenders.

All other points you made...i don't bother to answar. If you don't trust Vedanti...please don't. If you doubt the ability of these guys...please do. However, talking like this does not solve any issues. Everyone knows about how 'good' are leaders are in reality. Whatever the details are, the NC is now accepted by Sri Akal Takht. Published by SGPC....YEAH I KNOW ABOUT THEIR DEEDS ALSO!

Will there be a new calender? if Sikh scholars/experts in the future find out that the reseach done by PS Purewal was not complete an

d there are sme holes that should be fixed....so be it. a few dates could be changes....if the historic research of the day states that that specific event occured on some other date than the one prescribed in NC, so they can change it.

the Christian calender has been through MAJOR changes atleast two times..i think once of a gap of six years was created, that is why Jesus is said to have been born in 6 ad or something.....what's big deal?

The Panth is for a seperate calender.....also we know that history given in various accounts is not absolute. there is always room for discussion. in the starting of 1900s scholars thought Puratan Janamsakhian were better accounts, before that Bhai Bala ji's JS had more influence. Now they say that Meharban JS is atleast equally good as Puratan. What happened once has happened, but our understanding of events will change....so i believe it is actually a positive element that we have room for change.

Your argument that 'it has been done for centuries' i am not totally supporting. Sometimes, also i have stated that we should do things as in the past, but there should be room for change if we now find that the things done in the past were not quite right. As for saying that Sikh Quam using BK before NC, as i have said before....it was the one calender available at that time.....what other choice did they have? Sikhs have been wanting a Nanakshahi calender for atleast a century from what i have heard...if not more. How long should it be....before we are willing to accept that?

I don't feel there is any split between the Panth, just minor disagreements that can be solved. The split is; between the Sikh nation and the Pandits who publish the 'Vikrami Samvat'.

Please read their reason for using BK: http://www.bvpindia.com/samvat_2061.htm

[Guest SikhForLife]

i support nanakhsahi 100%

its more accurate

change can be good.

[joga singh]

well said khalistani ji

wat calander did guru je use????

they cud have made their own but they didnt

i support ur views

[Guest Jahan]

It is a calender of Sikh Quam. We are a separate nation and must have a separate calender also. First, Sikhs used to celebrate everything according to bikarmi calnder, named after a hindu king Bikaramajeet. Now, Sikhs have Nanakshahi calender which is according to Sikh beliefs and months. Although it is not a perfect calender but all jathebandis should work together to resolve any issues and make it a complete panthik calender. Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Sikhs are a separate nation from.....?

I think there is some confusion among many members of this forum regarding the distinction between religious and ethnic affiliations.

Explain to everyone how a calendar can be made according to "Sikh beliefs and months". What is a "Sikh month" even?

Deep Singh is way off in remarking that celebrating historical events and other festivals a few days after/before doesnt make a difference. Of course it does. The whole idea of celebrating an event of the past is that we remember "on this day so and so....". You get my point?

There was a follow-up article on todays Tribune and i especially liked this point and am thankful it was made:

"Giani

Iqbal Singh had also declared that the two takhts which were out of Punjab were as important as the three in Punjab and no one should dare undermine their role."

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040726/punjab1.htm

Being a distinct and separate religious community does not mean we have any need for a separate calendar from everyone else. Dont we live in the same World as other people? You should not support the confining of Sikhism within worldly racial/ethnic, linguistic or geographical boundaries. Religions are higher and transcend all these.

Ample proof that Sikhism is not bound to a particular region or people comes from basic philosophies of the faith and can be seen in efforts to spread and promote the religion like this:

"Vedanti to release Thai translation of Guru Granth Sahib"

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040726/...6/punjab1.htm#3

Should any future Thai converts to Sikhism coin a new calendar for themselves which is separate to other Thai peoples who are Buddhist or whatever? Would a new calendar somehow prove that they belong to a different religion or "quam"?

We should stick with what is authentic and has been there for centuries instead of making things to satisfy some insecurity and attempt to rewrite the past to suit the political agendas of some...

Regards,

[Guest Jahan]

many people who say nanaksahi calander is the best say those who dont belive in it are hindus

This is the most typical and also most pathetic thing Sikhs say to eachother during any disagreement.

If someone doesnt agree with you then he is a Hindu? These are not the words of a Sikh, these are the words of a <banned word filter activated>.

Good points khalistani