Jatts and Sikhi

[Simran9]

hey, since we're kinda on this right now....

anyone heard of this book that tells you that Jatt is it's own race pretty much? I fotgot what it's called, but I think it's written by B.S. Sidhu...I thought his last name was Dhillon but somebody said it's Sidhu. Anyway, you can find the link on google probably or you'll find it at jatt.com, there was a thread on it couple months ago.

i think this is really brainwashing ppl. somebody read it and said that we should have jatt pride cuz we oughta be proud of our jatt culture. i think the author says that jatt culture dates back to like ancient greek times...

i think is wrong....which is more important: having jatt pride or sikh pride? it dont' matter if jatt should be considered its own race, it originates in the hindu caste system right? i think this "u should have jatt pride" <admin-profanity filter activated> is juz leading us in the wrong direction...AWAY FROM GURU JI.

any thoughts? anyone actually read that book or the first chapter that is available online?

thanx

[Deep Singh]

Here is the book: http://www.jattworld.com/exoops/modules/Li...hillon-contents

it is by B.S. Dhillon, University of Ottawa. (phd in industrial engineering)

i don't really know what to say....even if Jatts are a race (not caste), they shouldn't have pride...as that is wrong. (Ku-Rehat)

[randip singh]

Here is the book: http://www.jattworld.com/exoops/modules/Li...hillon-contents

it is by B.S. Dhillon, University of Ottawa. (phd in industrial engineering)

i don't really know what to say....even if Jatts are a race (not caste), they shouldn't have pride...as that is wrong. (Ku-Rehat)

The whole issue of having caste/race based Gurudwara's is wrong.............the Ramgarhia's (who are not persecuted like Choorahs and Chamaars) need to explain why they have set up these caste based Gurudwara's...........

Brother Deep Singh..............this BS Dhillon is not a professional historian but an Engineer....................most of his theories are based on dead books and defunct theories and reasoning..............the man is a clown................his book is good for a laugh..........

..........in any case the word "Jaat" is Generic as in Manas Ki Jaat Ekh Paachano...............Recognise the Human Race as One..............Jaat can mean race and from what is written below.............racism is taboo is Sikhi.............

BTW the site you have mentioned (jat

tworld) is a very racist site and they have been reprimanded for calling Sikhs towel head and diaper heads..................

[gss]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Most people seem to pick on Ramgarhias for some reason.

Their may not be any Gurdwaras with label "Jatt" on it, and thats because most of the Singh Sabhas wouldnt have any Ramgahrias in their committees. Originally all the Singh Sabhas would, and most still only have Jatt committes- i have seen some changes to this recently which is for the better.

Why wouldnt Jats have ramgahrias in their committees? Its because Jats thought they were a higher caste... the reason for this is that Jats carried out the farming, and the Tarkhans/ramgahrias were the ones who made the tools for farming... hence why Jatts think that Ramgarhias are inferior to them. Additional to this, Jatts became very rich when the green revolution occured in Panjab, hence elevating their status even more in their minds. Many Ramgarhias in search for better work had to leave and settle in places such as East Africa where they helped build much of the rail roads.

its not like Ramgahria Gurdwaras are for only Ramgahrias, its just that their committee will be mainly Ramgahria.... just like Singh Sabha Gurdwaras work.

How many songs have u heard where someone boasts about themselves being a Ramgahria? Whereas every single Jatt singer will put it in somehow.

This attitude of thinking Ramgarhias are inferior is wrong. How many Jatts come to the UK and actually do farming? Whereas loads of Ramgahrias come and do builiding. So obviously if the Jatt majority is going to discriminate against Ramgarhias in their committes, the Ramgarhias are going to feel discriminated against. .. and now i see loadsa Jatts doing the job which a Tarkhan would do.

So before everyone always criticizes Ramgahrias again, think about it.... I mean, on these forums, at Sikh Society talks, people always degrade Ramgarhias, without understanding the fact that none of this would happen if Jatts were to treat the other so-called 'castes' in Sikhism equally.

No offence was intended to be caused,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

[Mehtab Singh]

well said :lol:

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Reallya contemptable situation. All of these people were doormats for the Mughals just a few hundred years ago, and doormats for the Brahmins for thousands of years ((how soon we forget) under the ever so advanced Manu Simriti, which reads like a manual of hierarichal slavery manual.

Some "Jatts" have an issue going on in India in which they will not allow "lower castes" to even enter Gurudwaras in "their" control. So the "lower castes" have resorted to opening "their own" Gurudwaras or threatening to convert to different religions. But the core of the problem is not restricted to any "caste", it is more a problem of people not knowing what Gurmat says about the equality of humanity. This idiotic problem even shows up in Western country Gurudwara committes, where two parties who do not agree on the issue will call out the other's "caste affiliation" to polarize the arguement more.

More suspicious is the arising of Sabhas based on "caste" forming, Jatt Sabha, Biswakarma Sabha (the tarkhan diety), Ravidas Sabha, etc, which are becoming quite popular in the Punjab (hmmm...wonder who is sponsoring these organizations...) to further separate out Sikhs and prevent unity.

The solution...YOU!!! The youth of today, at least in the countries outside of India, who are in touch with Sikhism are associating with "castes" less and less. The other trend is of people associating more and more with Punjabis (and the associated "castes") and much less so with Sikhism (besides the obligatory Kara...). Watch for this forking to grow more and more pronounced. Hopefully (Almighty willing), the Sikhs will emerge out of this pit of Manu stupidit

y someday and treat all humans as equals and all Sikhs as brothers and sister.

[Mehtab Singh]

All of these people were doormats for the Mughals just a few hundred years ago, and doormats for the Brahmins for thousands of years (how soon we forget).

Whats also forgotten is that it was the Khalsa that was responsible for punishing evil doers, and NOT a particular caste.

The solution...YOU!!! The youth of today, at least in the countries outside of India, who are in touch with Sikhism are associating with "castes" less and less. The other trend is of people associating more and more with Punjabis (and the associated "castes") and much less so with Sikhism (besides the obligatory Kara...). Watch for this forking to grow more and more pronounced. Hopefully (Almighty willing), the Sikhs will emerge out of this pit of Manu stupidity someday and treat all humans as equals and all Sikhs as brothers and sister.

Very well said ms514 veerjee!!

[ms514]

Sat Sri Akal:

Good point by Mahtab Singh Ji...the point was recently raised on a Jatt forum (a Jatt is a landowner...by that line of thinking, almost everyone's parents who own a house is a Jatt... ) was the blasphemous point that the increasing number of Jatts into the Sikh religion infused a martial spirit into Sikhism (a point made legendary by our beloved W.H. McLeod, who is winner of the Size 13 Boot to the Face Award for Best Lies). One wonders where the Jatts were when the Mughals were invading, looting, plundering and murdering the Indians, especially in the Punjab? Where was the martial spirit? All "castes" were lying on the ground like beaten dogs and taking regular beatings at the hands of the Mughals. It was Sikhism that united the people, raised them from the dirt to make them diamonds and fight off invasion after invasion, not any caste.

[randip singh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Most people seem to pick on Ramgarhias for some reason.

Their may not be any Gurdwaras with label "Jatt" on it, and thats because most of the Singh Sabhas wouldnt have any Ramgahrias in their committees. Originally all the Singh Sabhas would, and most still only have Jatt committes- i have seen some changes to this recently which is for the better.

Why wouldnt Jats have ramgahrias in their committees? Its because Jats thought they were a higher caste... the reason for this is that Jats carried out the farming, and the Tarkhans/ramgahrias were the ones who made the tools for farming... hence why Jatts think that Ramgarhias are inferior to them. Additional to this, Jatts became very rich when the green revolution occured in Panjab, hence elevating their status even more in their minds. Many Ramgarhias in search for better work had to leave and settle in places such as East Africa where they helped build much of the rail roads.

its not like Ramgahria Gurdwaras are for only Ramgahrias, its just that their committee will be mainly Ramgahria.... just like Singh Sabha Gurdwaras work.

How many songs have u heard where someone boasts about themselves being a Ramgahria? Whereas every single Jatt singer will put it in somehow.

This attitude of thinking Ramgarhias are inferior is wrong. How many Jatts come to the UK and actually do farming? Whereas loads of Ramgahri

as come and do builiding. So obviously if the Jatt majority is going to discriminate against Ramgarhias in their committes, the Ramgarhias are going to feel discriminated against. .. and now i see loadsa Jatts doing the job which a Tarkhan would do.

So before everyone always criticizes Ramgahrias again, think about it.... I mean, on these forums, at Sikh Society talks, people always degrade Ramgarhias, without understanding the fact that none of this would happen if Jatts were to treat the other so-called 'castes' in Sikhism equally.

No offence was intended to be caused,

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh

Brother some good point BUT the Ramgarhias have some explaining to do.............

...........note that it was not the Tarkhans from India who set these Gurudwaras up but the Tarkhans from Kenya who thought Jatts were backward and so did not want to have any Gurudwara association within.................I could be wrong but this is what I have learned...........

...........there was an incessant campaign by Ramgarhias in Leeds to exclude people from Jatt backgrounds from Gurudwara committees...........

...........In anycase...........the Gurudwara in Gravesend where the majority of worshippers are from Jatt backgrounds had a President from Tarkhan backround for many years until he himself stepped down..............Jandu I think his surname was................I could give you many other examples.............

............I'm not saying that Jatts are not bigheaded and do not have faults BUT they haven't called any Gurudwara a Jattdwara..............

...............I think this is about POLITICS and POWER and using caste as an issue to get what you want..............

[djsingh]

Piyarey Khalsa ji.......

Waheguru Ji ki Fateh

It's so depressing to think that we sikhs have not been able to eradicate caste based distinction from society after 300 years of creation of khalsa. Guru sahib made it quite clear that sikh has no caste by changing his own name from Gbind Rai to Gobind Singh. When guru sahib did so how come we ppl still continue to follow the caste system and use surnames other than Singh. This is sheer disobidience to Guru ji's directive.

Actually one of the problems is than we have not been able to organise ourself till date. There is no single point contol of sikh community. That's why ppl follw their own principles which sometimes violate the sikh code of conduct.

And Nobody is there to correct them. And I think if Akal takhat advises them to comply with certain codes of conduct they will not accept it. So there has to be a supreme seat which is just and comprise of gursikhs from all over the world and has enough power to direct sikhs any where in the world

:e:

If we can not ask sikh population in general to shed their cast based surnames , there should be a rule that when a person takes amrit he has to shed his castebased surname and use only Singh as his surname

or some other system of surnames should be evolved which is not caste based.

This is not possible unless some authority like akal takhal organise it. Only preaching will not do. How can you expect ppl to be experts without imparting knowledge to them. :T:

Akhal Takhat will have to issue a directive in this regard just as it did by banning marriages outside gurudwara. Akal Takhat Did issue a directive long time back by which it advised sikhs to append names of their villages etc. inplace of thier caste based surnames but it has not been implemented till date and even amritdhari ppl continue to Be Jats , ramgarhias , etc .etc.

" Let us all be sikhs and not Jats, Ramgarhias etc. etc. Let us all be sons of Dasam Pita". Guru Sahib bacame a 'Chela' (Wah Wah Gobind Singh ,Aapey Gur Chela) to teach us these things but we murakhs continue to be stupids and not understand his teachings.

Bhul Chuk Muaf

Daljit