What Made Sikhs Such Great Soldiers

yubacitysingh · September 28, 2011

most people here live in england canada america those are our country's, it has nothing to do about not having a country

Jonny101 · September 28, 2011

They were physically tough. Most were rural physical people and worked the farms or did some kind of manual work. They had alot of pride (anakh) and always felt that they had alot to live up to, ie their forefathers had a fearsome and courageous reputation so they thought that they had to maintain it.

They drew inspiration from Sikh history and all the great stories about soormay permeated their lives and shaped their mentality and their values.

They were practical people. They enjoyed the adventure, prestige, honour, glory and financial reward of being a soldier.

The above I believe are the main reasons to be honest.

That may be partly true, but before Sikhism why weren't those same rural folks fighting the tough central Asian Pathans and Turks with the Pathans were openly kidnapping Punjabi rural women and selling them in the Bazars for Takkas? We very often like to feel that it was us who were behind all the victories when the truth of the matter is it was Guru Jee's blessings. Without his kirpa we cannot get victory or gain an honourable Shaheedi. Anything good in us(Sikhs) is because of him and anything bad or weak in us is because of janam janam di mail in our mind.

Although Sikhs have been brave through out Sikh history, even today we can hear of stories of bravery of Sikh soldiers in the Indian army during the indo pak wars or the bravery of the Sikh Khadkoos. But the best and truest of the Sikhs were of the Guru period. After the Guru period every subsequent generation many innovations and deviations crept into the Sikh mindset and even Sikh maryadha. So much so that by the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period Sikhs who although were a brave people, but began to be influenced by innovations and deviations of the people surrounding them. Torturing POWs (if it's true) would be proof of the influence of innovations and deviations because a few generations before that during the time of Qazi Noor Mohammad Sikhs would never have done such a thing.

If you see the SIkhs of today, they are even worse then the Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period since now the Sikh mindset is polluted with even more innovations and deviations such as western culture and bollywood etc. besides being influenced by other religions/cultures. Today if a Sikh soldier gets a chance would probably have no moral problem in raping women. Not surprising since there is a 300 year gap between today's degraded Sikh and the pure Sikh of the first Khalsa generation who took Amrit from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. We need to emulate the Sikhs of the 1st Khalsa generation not the average Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh period since every subsequent generation gets degraded and polluted by external influences.

Jonny101 · September 28, 2011

The point about the helmet with the joora on top. It should also be noted that even though the helmet was used by wealthy Sikh aristocrats but on top of the helmet a Dastar was still worn. It was never meant to replace a dastar. It was placed directly on top of the head and afterward a Dastar was tied. Regardless, even this helmet was the exception rather then the norm.

pedrorizzo · September 28, 2011

That may be partly true, but before Sikhism why weren't those same rural folks fighting the tough central Asian Pathans and Turks with the Pathans were openly kidnapping Punjabi rural women and selling them in the Bazars for Takkas? We very often like to feel that it was us who were behind all the victories when the truth of the matter is it was Guru Jee's blessings. Without his kirpa we cannot get victory or gain an honourable Shaheedi. Anything good in us(Sikhs) is because of him and anything bad or weak in us is because of janam janam di mail in our mind.

Although Sikhs have been brave through out Sikh history, even today we can hear of stories of bravery of Sikh soldiers in the Indian army during the indo pak wars or the bravery of the Sikh Khadkoos. But the best and truest of the Sikhs were of the Guru period. After the Guru period every subsequent generation many innovations and deviations crept into the Sikh mindset and even Sikh maryadha. So much so that by the time of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period Sikhs who although were a brave people, but began to be influenced by innovations and deviations of the people surrounding them. Torturing POWs (if it's true) would be proof of the influence of innovations and deviations because a few generations before that during the time of Qazi Noor Mohammad Sikhs would never have done such a thing.

If you see the SIkhs of today, they are even worse then the Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's period since now the Sikh mindset is polluted with even more innovations and deviations such as western culture and bollywood etc. besides being influenced by other religions/cultures. Today if a Sikh soldier gets a chance would probably have no moral problem in raping women. Not surprising since there is a 300 year gap between today's degraded Sikh and the pure Sikh of the first Khalsa generation who took Amrit from Guru Gobind Singh Jee. We need to emulate the Sikhs of the 1st Khalsa generation not the average Sikhs of Maharaja Ranjit Singh period since every subsequent generation gets degraded and polluted by external influences.

Some good points above. Actually its interesting you mentioned that, as I have come across a few instances in modern times where Sikh soldiers have (allegedly) molested women:

http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?277849

And this one: http://outlookindia.com/article.aspx?277849

pedrorizzo · September 28, 2011

Actually as HSD has stated, there was a full regiment called the Khalsa Curaissers who all wore this type of helmet. If you have any evidence of dastars being worn over the helmet, which sounds a bit strange, please show. I have seen a 19th century painting of Hari Singh Nalwa, Indian minature style, wearing a hard helmet but with no dastaar, in the warrior saints book, so would be interested to know about any evidence that contradicts this

pedrorizzo · September 28, 2011

Interesting post also by Dal Singh, regarding fraternising of Sikh troops with French women during WW1. I guess that this was not a modern phenomenon only, but clearly must have become alot more prevalent after the Guru jis times:

I picked up a very interesting book called 'Indian voices of the great war: Soldiers' letters, 1814-18' by David Omissi, who works at the University of Hull (Dept. of History and Centre for Indian Studies).

It contains the contents of letters sent by (and to) soldiers from the then undivided Indian subcontinent during the first world war. These have been translated in English from the original languages/scripts in which they were transcribed (mainly Gurmukhi, Urdu, Hindi with some other occasional variations like Bengali). These letters are extant because the texts passed through British censorship, which was concerned with (and keeping an eye open for) potential disaffection amongst the Indian soldiery at the time. The book is useful as a tool to help us understand the motivations and concerns of the soldiers involved. The letters are presented chronologically by date and there are 657 in total, being of varying lengths and from soldiers of diverse backgrounds.

It is not uncommon to hear lamentation that whilst we have plenty of white soldiers accounts relating to this conflict, we don't have corresponding texts written from the perspectives of the brown men that were present. The book helps fill this gap to an extent. The following is based on its introductory essay which (amongst other things), describes the nature of recruitment at the time. This may at help partially explain the aforementioned scarcity of narratives from the brown side:

"How were the letters written? It is clear some men wrote or addressed their own letters, but the vast majority of letters were probably written by scribes on behalf of their senders, since most Indian Army soldiers were illiterate. In the Punjab at this time no more than 5 percent of the population could read; among rural military communities, however literacy was would have been very much less, since the British deliberately recruited from the least educated segments of the rural population, who were thus least effected by 'dangerous' Western political ideas. Indeed, some of the letters contain explicit references to the 'writer's' own illiteracy, while others refer to scribes."

Whilst it must be borne in mind that certain restraining factors would have influenced what was being divulged in these communications (awareness of censorship being an obvious factor), they still provide valuable insights into the thoughts and situations of the soldiers even with these limitations. Some of the letters that were sent by soldiers were indeed 'suppressed' by the censors and the criteria for the said suppression included:

"incitements to crime, and even murder; accounts of sex with white women, which were seen as damaging to white prestige; particularly distressing letters from men who had been badly disabled by wounds; letters which were flagrantly dishonest, mentioned drugs or included slighting references to whites; and accounts from prisoners of war of receiving good treatment from Germans, which might have encouraged desertion. In each case, either the offending passage was deleted or the offending passage was deleted or the entire letter was destroyed."

The picture emerging from the self referencing included in texts reveals communities conspicuously stratified along both religious and caste lines. When we consider the impact of the by then firmly entrenched 'martial races theory' used by the British to categorise and organise the soldiers of the 'jewel of the crown', it's difficult to tell just how far these identity constructs were truly reflective of pre-colonial self-identifications (that had carried over from that time) or whether the policies introduced by the imperial administration played a large part in moulding the self perceptions? The opportunity is open for future research to delve into this matter through comparison with pre annexation texts, which could prove useful in trying to establish earlier Khalsa attitudes towards this now thorny issue and how exogenous British ideas may have altered the previously prevailing perceptions. In theory, this could help shed some light onto the argument that British policies influenced the nature of the caste system as existent amongst Panjabi Sikhs today.

A general pattern emerges from the letters with the exhilaration exhibited prior to battles and immediately after early conflicts giving way to 'sighs of resignation' and 'despair' as time progressed. Interestingly the narrator of the book mentions that only the Mahsuds (a Pathan people of NWFP) seem to have been unaffected in this way. Some letters later give warnings to relatives and friends to stay away from the war and avoid enlisting. Not surprisingly the cold European weather seemed to have a particular effect in lowering morale. It is suggested that this was the cause for eventually removing infantry soldiers from this front and redeploying them to the more familiar climes of the Middle East. Those that did remain in Europe where attached to the cavalry it seems and saw significantly less intense action than their infantry compatriots had previously. This coupled with the fact that instructions were explicitly given by commanders to discourage writing what could be deemed as despondent, means that the accounts in later letters do not contain as many despair tinged references as before. This was, of course, the dawn of modern mechanised warfare as we know it today, characterised by remote mass destruction; something that would have come as a shock to even previously battle hardened foot soldiers.

Whilst Muslims equated the battles to Karbala, Hindus used the analogy of Mahabharat to describe the mass carnage they were witnessing. Interestingly Sikhs had no such previous conflict which they used in similar comparative terms. Some letters acknowledge the receipt of religious material such as Korans and the Guru Granth Sahib. As could be expected, faith played a big part in the lives of those facing death on a constant basis. It would however be a mistake to think of these soldiers in strictly puritan terms and mention is made of a certain erosion of 'religious orthodoxies'. Some letters make brief references to sexual relationships between the soldiers and the indigenous females of Europe for instance. As could be expected after the earlier experience of the mutiny, the imperial hierarchy were keen to avoid a repetition of such a scenario and strove to meet the religious dietary requirements of the soldiers. A photo of Sikhs dispatching some goats' jhatka style is provided (see attachment to post). Interestingly, Sikhs and Hindus shared a common space for slaughtering animals, whilst Muslims had their own separate location.

The matter of later recruitment in Panjab is touched upon and it appears as if there was some difficulty in this area. The book describes the scenario (somewhat shockingly) as follows:

"From the autumn of 1916, various forms of coercion were also used to secure recruits. The Government of India discussed conscription, but preferred to employ informal methods of compulsion, especially in Punjab. For example, Indian officials were told to produce a given quota of men on pain of losing their posts if they failed. Some men were simply kidnapped, or their womenfolk held hostage until the men enlisted. After the war, the authoritarian Governor of the Punjab, Michael O'Dwyer, was even accused of using 'terrorist methods' to find recruits. He fought and won a libel case over the phrase, but there remained no doubt that forcible recruitment was widely resented. "

Michael O'Dwyer

(Note that the aforementioned General O'Dwyer was later assassinated by Udham Singh in London in 1940 in retaliation for the Jallianwala Bagh massacre).

Overall the book is invaluable for those interested in Indian involvement in the first world war and helps shed light onto many aspects of the conflict in relation to the people who traveled to a far off continent to fight in a foreign war. It provides a thought provoking window into the relationship between the colonised and the colonisers.

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#2 dalsingh101

Baeg Milo Jan Kar Naa Bilaa(n)baa

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Posted 03 September 2011 - 04:27 AM

Here are some interesting extracts from the above book. I post them for those interested in itihaas. What I find striking from the letters in the book is that the Sikh soldiers are human. They exhibit all the strengths and weaknesses of the human condition. I remember a few months ago people alluded to the 'higher standard' of colonial Sikh soldiers behaviour in comparison to today in a thread. Reading this book has challenged this notion for me. Some of the contents are of a mature nature, so be forewarned. Hopefully we can get a more accurate understanding of our recent ancestors through studying such material and move away from nonfactual, idolised representations:

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Sepoy Gurdit Singh to his father in Amritsar – 6th April 1915 from Brighton hospital

Here it is being said men are being forced to enlist by order in India, and they also say plague is rife. Write me some news of our country... So long as the war goes on, no sound man can return to India – only those who have lost a limb can return. In my heart I feel that I shall have to go back to war.

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A Sikh sepoy in France to Gurun Ditta Mal of 47th Sikhs in UP (India) - 12th May 1915

You will be hearing about this country (France) from the wounded who have gone back from England. Some of them will tell fine tales about the number of water-drawing machines

. I long to see England. When the war is over perhaps the regiment will go there. There are crowds of ‘machines’ here also, and the sight of them delights us, but we are ashamed to touch them lest we lose caste. The men and women of this place treat us lovingly.[/i][/size]

The coy, reserved sentiments of the brother above weren’t shared by all Sikhs as demonstrated in the intercepted coded Gurmukhi letter below:

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Balwant Singh (France) to Chet Ram (Amritsar) – 24th October 1915

[i]The ladies are very nice and bestow their favours upon us freely. But contrary to the custom in our country they do not put their legs over the shoulders when they go with a man.[/i][/size]

(The above letter was intercepted and deleted by the censors presumably because of the references to 'relations' with white women).

A Panjabi Musalmaan wrote:

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Maula Dad Khan (Sialkot Cavalary brigade) to his father (India) – 24th October 1915

[i]M. Khan’s letter dated the 27th Sept. Reached me on the 22nd Oct. When I read it every hair on my body stood on end. Before that i was happy but after I read it I was very vexed. It is true that I wrote to Allah Lok Khan for a pair of [women’s] shoes. The fact is, father, that a young Frenchman acquaintance of mine asked me to send for something from india. He asked me to get him some shoes which would fit his wife. I wrote that. Of what do you suspect me? My father I swear in the name of God and His prophet and declare that there is no [ground for suspicion].[/i][/size]

This letter seems to refer to an incident of rape by some Sikh soldiers.

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Ressaidar Kabul Singh (Sikh, 41) to Risaldar Bahadhur Mohinddin Sahib, ADC to HE the viceroy (Remount Base Depot, Marseilles) – 29th Oct 1915

[i]Asil Singh Jat and harbans have done a vile thing. They forcibly violated a French girl, 19 years of age. It is a matter of great humiliation and regret that the good name of the 31st lancers should be sullied in this way.[/i][/size]

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Havildar Abdul Rahman (Panjabi Musalmaan) from France to Naik Rajwali Khan in Baluchistan – 20th May

For God’s sake don’t come, don’t come, don’t come to this war in Europe. Write and tell me if your regiment or any part of it comes and whether you are coming with it or not. I am in a state of great anxiety; and tell my brother Mohammad Yakub Khan for God’s sake not to enlist. If you have any relatives my advice is don’t let them enlist. It is unnecessary to write any more. I write so much to you as I am Pay Havildaar and read the letters to the double company commander*. Otherwise there is a strict order against writing on the subject. Cannons, machine guns, rifles and bombs are going day and night, just like the rains in the month of Sawan (July – August). Those who have escaped so far are like the few grains left uncooked in a pot. That is the case with us. In my company there are only 10 men

[left]. In the regiment there are 200. In every regiment there are only 200 or 280 [the average number of soldiers in a full regiment was approx. 760].

*Here the writer refers to the censorship process and his part in it, explaining how he has bypassed it.[/size]

This brother waxed lyrically in Gurmukhi poetry to his wife. The letter was withheld by the censors, presumably for its despondent character?

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Sant Singh to his wife (from France?) – 18th Sept. 1915

We perish in the desert: you wash yourself and lay in bed. We are trapped in a net of woe, while you go free. Our life is a living death. For what great sin are being punished? Kill us, Oh God, but free us from our pain! We move in agony but never rest. We are slaves of masters who can show no mercy. The bullets fall on us like rain, but dry are our bodies. So we have spent a full year. We cannot write a word. Lice feed upon our flesh: we cannot wait to pick them out. For days we have not washed our faces. We do not change our clothes. Many son’s of mothers lie dead. No one takes any heed. It is God’s will that this is so, and what is written is true. God The Omnipotent plays a game, and men die. Death here is dreadful, but of life there is not the briefest hope. [/size]

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Storekeeper D. N. Sircar (Maratha Brahmin) to Telegraphist S. K. Bapat (Indore, Central India) writing from Kitchener’s Indian Hospital in Brighton, England. 12th Nov. 1915.

[i]This place is very picturesque and the Indians are very much liked here. The girls of this place are notorious and very fond of accosting Indians and fooling with them. They are ever ready for any purpose, and in truth are no better that the girls of Adda Bazar of Indore. (This letter was deleted by the censors).[/i][/size]

In the next letter we can see how religious sentiments were used by the Brits to goad soldiers into action:

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A sepoy of the 47th Sikhs (Sikh) writing from Brighton hospital to his friend in India – 14th December 1915

[i]Chur Singh has suffered martyrdom in the war. The 47th Sikhs were charging. [The] sahib said ‘Chur Singh, you are not a Sikh of Guru Govind Singh, [you who in fear remain in the trench!’ Chur Singh was very angry. Chur Singh gave the order for his company to charge. He drew out his sword and went forward. A bullet came from the enemy and hit him in the mouth. So did our brother Chur Singh become a martyr. No other man was like Jemadar Chur Singh.[/i][/size]

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Jonny101 · September 28, 2011

Actually as HSD has stated, there was a full regiment called the Khalsa Curaissers who all wore this type of helmet. If you have any evidence of dastars being worn over the helmet, which sounds a bit strange, please show. I have seen a 19th century painting of Hari Singh Nalwa, Indian minature style, wearing a hard helmet but with no dastaar, in the warrior saints book, so would be interested to know about any evidence that contradicts this

It may have been experimented but it certainly was not the norm even back then. When the Brits took over, they had originally wanted to introduce helmets to the newly formed Sikh regiments which the Sikh soldiers did not approve of so the proposal was dropped. Sikh soldiers were the only soldiers of the British army who were exempt from wearing helmets. As you can see from the existing helmets from the time of Ranjit Singh's army, those helmets have extravagant designs with gold which shows it's original owner must have been an aristocrat Sirdar. The size of those helmets also shows that they were made in such a way so as to fit right on top of the head. The Dastar was tied around not surprisingly because a dastar would have reinforced the helmet with added protection. This picture shows Hari Singh Nalwa wearing a helmet with a turban tied around it http://www.esikhs.co...gh_nalwa_13.jpg I don't know how old this picture is but I am showing it to show you (roughly) what I mean.

yubacitysingh · September 28, 2011

What im trying to get at with this thread is that most sikhs don't have that fire in them like the sikhs did 200 years ago, were they have this hunger to fight and take torture

today a sikh gets called osama bin laden and they run in the other direction

people say its gurbani but if it were gurbani then why so many cowards today, why so many overweight sikhs

if we had that same fire we did 200 years ago heck we would dominate ever aspect of life military buisness education you name it

we were so highly motivated that we didn't feel pain

even in sports you look at excuses but you look at the fire sikhs had 200 years ago they never made excuses and got what they wanted

pedrorizzo · September 28, 2011

oh ok cool, yeh looks like a circular helmet with plumes and a red dastaar tied loosely over the top. Well you learn something new everyday

yubacitysingh · September 28, 2011

basicully why don't sikhs have the same heart same motivation same hunger same drive they did 200 years ago

imagine if sikhs had that drive again when it comes to sports buisness army sikhs would take over

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