Dasam Granth?

[GPS]

The discussion is about panktis from Dasam Granth being quoted out of context.

let us focus on that.

[JSinghnz]

The discussion is about panktis from Dasam Granth being quoted out of context.

let us focus on that.

Fair enough. But does not allow anyone to question our Gurus and try to make

malicious statements. This is a Sikh forum and some people tend to forget this

simple fact that anything said against the fundamentals of Sikhism will not be tolerated

here.

[Guru_Da_Chella]

No? Well I suppose that's why Sikhs of all castes cling onto the caste system.

I think what you've posted above is an extremely fine (as in razor-like) distinction that goes over the head of most Sikhs --- me included.

Most sikhs in fact do not cling onto THE caste system of the 4 varnas. The punjabi caste system the sikhs follow now is in fact different from the caste system Guru ji describes in bani.

Guru Ji never fought to eradicate the caste system, but to bring all castes as equals in their journey to Waheguru. Guru's gave us the best most pristine example of spiritual and grishti living, sewa, sacrifice, gurmat sangeet, and poetry, etc, why didn't any Guru marry out of their own caste to set an example?

This is one of the most outrageous statements ever heard. This shows the depth of shameless and stupidity by writing without thinking. If Guru ji never fought to eradicate the caste system why did He then create the Khalsa and blessed us with the last names of Singh AND kAUR. People like you are a blot to Sikhism. How dare you challenge the ways of our Gurus.

Guru ji made Khalsa warriors; for hindu society the use of the name Singh and being a warrior is seen as being in a kshatriya caste/varna!! Similarly a sant/sadhu, for a hindu, would be seen as being in Brahmin varna/caste or even casteless.

[VanHelsingh]

Most sikhs in fact do not cling onto THE caste system of the 4 varnas. The punjabi caste system the sikhs follow now is in fact different from the caste system Guru ji describes in bani.

I never said we did follow the Hindu system.

The caste system that Panjabi people follow is A caste system is it not?

[Guru_Da_Chella]

I never said we did follow the Hindu system.

The caste system that Panjabi people follow is A caste system is it not?

yes but it IS NOT the caste system Guru jis talk about!

[VanHelsingh]

yes but it IS NOT the caste system Guru jis talk about!

So (by your logic) our caste system is fine and dandy but the Hindu system is bad?

[Guest KopSingh]

this is how i see it, the sikhs and muslims in northern areas dont follow caste system we have tribal systems. the pakistanis have a big, if not, bigger problem than us when it comes to marrying people of different tribes. To my understanding, it was only after maharaja ranjit singh that jatts became land-owners because it was a reward of their bravery and fighting. Before that jatts were bullied and kicked around just like chamars are nowadays. It was only sikhi n to a lesser extent islam which offered jatts equality with others, thats why sooooo many jatts converted to sikhi. But because they have now become a majority, the jatts actualy believe they are higher than others, which contradicts their comittment to sikhi in the first place.

Hindus are just a joke, they actualy believe only so called higher caste ppl (brahmins) wil recieve spiritual liberation, if thats the case, then why did god create non brahmins for? why would god favour certain ppl over others, if we are all his kids. Hindu religion, isnt even a religion, its jus rules and regualtions for south asian countries (pak/india/panjab/bangla), their gita doesnt even ONCE mention the word hindu, just brahma, brahm and brahmin! thats why they are confused and just go around in circles. they are the only religion which calls themselves by a name which they didnt even come up with, the arabs did, it means thief/dark skinned in arabic!

[chatanga]

To my understanding, it was only after maharaja ranjit singh that jatts became land-owners because it was a reward of their bravery and fighting.

It was Baba Banda Singh that gave the land to the tillers(jatts) when he established 1st Sikh rule. The ownership of land swayed to and fro, until the Sikh military power became the strongest in panjab.

[chatanga]

So do I call this selective reading. You do not see anything wrong in when a person says,"Guru Ji never fought to eradicate the caste system."

And you also do not find anything outward in "why didn't any Guru marry out of their own caste to set an example?"

You need to show respect to our Gurus.

There is nothing disrespectful to our Gurus Sahib there. It is a simple fact.

The hindu varan ashram is different to the Khalsa caste, because the Khalsa is all 4 varan in one:

Brahman - reading bani and giving spiritual discourse

Kshatiya - defending the weak and oppressed, practising warfare

Vashya - working with 10 fingernails, and honestly

Shudra - doing sewa of other people.

Whereas the Hindu system is rigid, the Khalsa panth is all encompassing.

[Guest KopSingh]

It was Baba Banda Singh that gave the land to the tillers(jatts) when he established 1st Sikh rule. The ownership of land swayed to and fro, until the Sikh military power became the strongest in panjab.

yes but that wasnt a lasting move, the age of the misls suggests that khatris/tarkhans(ramgharia)/jatts/other tribes were all land owners, it wasnt until the glorious maharaja ranjit singh, that one particular tribe (jatts) had a monoply on land. I dont think he did this is on purpose, but more as an appreciation to jatts. unfortunaltly the lasting legacy of this move has now kind of left us in this division.