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Sikhi: Violence And Warfare


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First things first. The main thing to be clarified here is that it is wrong to relate Sikhism to violence.

Violence is defined the exercise or an instance of physical force, usually effecting or intended to effect injuries, destruction.

Sikhism never endorses violence towards anyone. On the other hand, Sikhism has always stood against tyrants. Our Gurus infused the spirit of bravery in a population which was burdened under the weight of slavery for centuries. No one before the Sikhs had the courage to challenge the authority of the cruel muslim masters. Our Gurus led by example and took on the evil rulers and their teachings inspired the enslaved populace to have a new life of freedom. Sikhs stood steady in their faith in the face of untold difficulties and the sacrifices of the Sikhs and their courage in the battlefield is unparalleled in the history of mankind

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When Satguru fought wars many innocent people lost their lives. So because of Satguru by your logic, which you showed, Satguru is selfish and was just looking for Sachkhand. Singho, this is why i say these topics are useless. People like this will never get what Sikhi is. It's best not to engage with such people and focus on your own jeevans and those Singhs that have the desire to meet Maharaj, give them to support to further their jeevan. Pedrorizzo type, tell them to do paat and they will go run to a politician and ask how to decieve more people to think their way. Pedrorizzo is an excellent politician and will twist the truth to please his superiors. Pedrorizzo, is going to see us against them. For him his own uncle is an enemy. For Khalsa the enemy on battlefield is a brother. Pedrorizzo will never understand this concept because he doesn't follow Sikhi. He follows his mind wishes.

Lastly and most important thing of all, Pedrorizzo will never answer the main questions of the discussion because he doesn't want to discuss. He wants to put is opinion across and in the process call you guys extremist and put Gurmat as selfish behaviour. He has no other goal. Pedrorizzo just called Maharaj selfish. What in the world do you think he will do for you? Put you on his shoulders and parade you around like your his hero?

Some people don't have anything else better to do in life and Maharaj has put them in this work. Tell him to first do Sri Sukhmani Sahib da paat with love and devotion, then come here and discuss. The answer from his mouth, well you won't here it, but it will be.....do paat!!! i already know what it says in that paat, i don't need to read it again.....such is the state of people that call Maharaj names. If you argue with such people then the filth that is stuck to them will eventual stick to you and lower your jeevan. Tell a person once, twice to discuss honestly and if they don't, end it there and don't respond.

Ask yourself this, why hasn't Gursikhs having a discussion with Darshan Ragi on Sri Dasam Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. They could in a second show the whole sangat he is wrong. But they don't discuss because all Darshan Ragi is going to do is insult Bani, insult Gurmat, insult Guru Sahib and the Gursikhs will have to suffer the consequences. Darshan Ragi brags to everyone he wants to discuss because he has no problem slandering Maharaj, infact thats his goal. There is no open mind to understand. Pedrorizzo has similar intentions here.

I'm only saying this for your benefit.

Only five is a religious extremist with manipulative intentions. He has no real idea what sikhi preaches. He is a pakhandi, that carries the robe and garb of a spiritual person and speaks the saintly language and feigns enlightenment. He is completely deluded and blindly follows what is told to him by a self-certified 'mahapursh' and the views circulated amongst is small cult like group.

He uses the common tactic of the fundamentalist, anyone that disagrees with his views is anti-Sikh or not a Sikh at all because of course only his views are correct. He is the kind of person that will try to use Sikhi to manipulate your emotions and try to convince you that Sikhi is in grave danger in order to gain popularity and to instigate conflict so that he can take advantage of it and pursue his own agenda.

He has no concept of consequences and as far as he is concerned, his holy crusade has been ordained by God and it is his religious duty so it doesnt matter if innocent people die or suffer because of his actions. To him, it is all for a greater cause... his cause. He does not believe in negotiating or debating because he considers that to be a compromise in his religious beliefs and compromise is something that extremists never do.

It doesnt matter how much you try and reason with them, they are totally deluded and preoccupied with the metaphysical and have no grasp of reality. It is people like them who try to turn Sikhi into a religion of the dark ages. They hinder progress and they are the real reason that the number of Sikhs is decreasing and why Sikhs dont have a homeland. Maybe if they woke up a little bit, then our community could make progress.

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First things first. The main thing to be clarified here is that it is wrong to relate Sikhism to violence.

Violence is defined the exercise or an instance of physical force, usually effecting or intended to effect injuries, destruction.

Sikhism never endorses violence towards anyone. On the other hand, Sikhism has always stood against tyrants. Our Gurus infused the spirit of bravery in a population which was burdened under the weight of slavery for centuries. No one before the Sikhs had the courage to challenge the authority of the cruel muslim masters. Our Gurus led by example and took on the evil rulers and their teachings inspired the enslaved populace to have a new life of freedom. Sikhs stood steady in their faith in the face of untold difficulties and the sacrifices of the Sikhs and their courage in the battlefield is unparalleled in the history of mankind

Nobody related Sikhi to violence, certainly not me. If I were to start a topic about serial killers and their motivations, for example, would that mean I endorse what serial killers do? The question was how to explain to an ignorant world about Sikhi concepts that they would term as violence and warfare. By identifying this flaw in THEIR thinking does not mean I - again - endorse such ways. How difficult is this to understand?

Of course the counter-argument is "We don't have to explain nothing to anyone" which is fair enough. But for the sake of gaining knowledge and understanding issues there's no harm in trying to ascertain how exactly these concepts work.

If anybody had tried to read my original post instead of picking out a few keywords and running with them for their own agenda, my queries were more to do with the opinions and reactions of fellow Sikhs to events AFTER they happen (as well as the reactions and policies of the wider world), rather than the events themselves and whether they are justified or not.

Here is the question again: Can you describe to us how Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj came to the conclusion of burning the Masands alive? This question is presented so it wakes all of us up, who have written post in this thread. Challenge for all of us to move from our way of thinking and humbly bow.

You seem to be under the impression that your word holds sway over me. I'm not compelled to answer any of your questions, as much as you choose to avoid answering those questions which are put to you.

To satiate your desire to learn of my response regarding the Masand issue, I would never question Guru Ji for burning the Masands. If the history books I've read are right, the Masands had it coming to them considering the cheating and looting they were doing. If someone were to ask me "Why did Guru Ji burn the Masands?" I would answer "Because it had to happen to dissuade others from following the Masand example". Why would I take this stance? Well, there are a few things in life that are bigger (not in a physical sense) than any of us. If that makes me an extremist or if I'm displaying un-Sikh behaviour than I don't really know what to say.

It may not satisfy everyone but when those very same people who bleat about peace and democracy are the very people who support governments who go into other countries under the pretence of peace and kill thousands of innocent people, such people cannot dare criticise events in Sikh history. Make no mistake if Sikhs were to enter into conflict in the near future, the very same people I've described above will pour in with their hypocritical views on militancy, etc.

Maybe you, OnlyFive, can give us your take on why Guru Ji burnt those Masands? Enlighten us, please. Don't be modest because you do love enlightening us all. In all honesty it is a very fine example of the kind of situation I was trying to discuss in this topic, i.e. how one event appears differently to non-Sikhs, but to Sikhs it appears in a completely different light due to our beliefs.

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Only five is a religious extremist with manipulative intentions. He has no real idea what sikhi preaches. He is a pakhandi, that carries the robe and garb of a spiritual person and speaks the saintly language and feigns enlightenment. He is completely deluded and blindly follows what is told to him by a self-certified 'mahapursh' and the views circulated amongst is small cult like group.

He uses the common tactic of the fundamentalist, anyone that disagrees with his views is anti-Sikh or not a Sikh at all because of course only his views are correct. He is the kind of person that will try to use Sikhi to manipulate your emotions and try to convince you that Sikhi is in grave danger in order to gain popularity and to instigate conflict so that he can take advantage of it and pursue his own agenda.

He has no concept of consequences and as far as he is concerned, his holy crusade has been ordained by God and it is his religious duty so it doesnt matter if innocent people die or suffer because of his actions. To him, it is all for a greater cause... his cause. He does not believe in negotiating or debating because he considers that to be a compromise in his religious beliefs and compromise is something that extremists never do.

It doesnt matter how much you try and reason with them, they are totally deluded and preoccupied with the metaphysical and have no grasp of reality. It is people like them who try to turn Sikhi into a religion of the dark ages. They hinder progress and they are the real reason that the number of Sikhs is decreasing and why Sikhs dont have a homeland. Maybe if they woke up a little bit, then our community could make progress.

Are you attacking Only Five now so the focus changes away from how you called Guruji selfish? Of course you're not a Sikh, no Sikh would ever call Maharaaj what you called him. Get lost bro

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He is the kind of person that will try to use Sikhi to manipulate your emotions and try to convince you that Sikhi is in grave danger in order to gain popularity and to instigate conflict so that he can take advantage of it and pursue his own agenda.

You just described yourself here. You first post encourages others to do the above. My first post tells others to not waste time on this thread and do bhagti. Sri Sukhmani Sahib da paat tells us to do paat and get others to do the same. In every post on any thread, I tell others to do paat. This is the answer to all problems.

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You just described yourself here. You first post encourages others to do the above. My first post tells others to not waste time on this thread and do bhagti. Sri Sukhmani Sahib da paat tells us to do paat and get others to do the same. In every post on any thread, I tell others to do paat. This is the answer to all problems.

Why do you feel compelled to reply to every post if they are worthless? Why not take your own advice and do Sukhmani Sahib Da Paat instead of wasting time responding to fools and wastes of time such as myself? Does your ego not allow you to do that?

In every post on any thread, I tell others to do paat.

Do you? Unless you've gone back to every single post you've made over the past few years and edited them, that is a lie. Do you mean 'every post' or 'some posts' because I can show you a few posts you made last week which didn't mention doing paat. Some of them were using filthy language that was blocked by the posting system or the mods. I'm sure someone with your avastha operates in ways people like me can never comprehend.

Funny thing is I actually think most of what you say makes sense and I hope, quite soon, I can also have the intense love for Sikhi you clearly possess. You just seem to have a hell of a big sense of self-importance that comes across even on the Internet.

One huge flaw in your personality I would like to highlight is that you can rarely, if ever, distinguish between friend and foe. Although I guess your answer will be that a person doesn't need friends if he has God's favour. Which is understandable but I suppose I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure you have friends in real-life and I wonder if you behave with them as you do with people on this site - y'know, people who you are certain you will never have to face or meet. I'm sure you don't. Sometimes this emboldens a man to say things he doesn't really mean when he thinks there'll be no consequences.

You should really go out into the world and preach. Your talents are wasted by remaining anonymous. I would definitely pay to attend a lecture if you were to ever hold one. Or I'd even attend a Gurughar whose stage you might grace.

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Why do you feel compelled to reply to every post if they are worthless? Why not take your own advice and do Sukhmani Sahib Da Paat instead of wasting time responding to fools? Does your ego not allow you to do that?

sounds like someone is a little mad. Relax......what i say shouldn't affect you to lose your peace of mind. If i didnt have ego in me then i would be a Brahmgyani and be washing your feet everyday. Everyone on this thread is pretty content with where they stand so it would mean we all have it figured out. Many different theories but everyone is right......the westeren way of doing things...lol...this is a joke don't take it so seriously. So i said let's do a group activity and look at why the Masands were burned alive by Satguru.

Does anyone have the sakhi in event order so we can all benefit from why Satguru took the steps he did. Dishing out our own opinions is good as hitting a break wall with a cotton ball. We won't get anywhere. Take Sikh history and analyze with Gurmat and then see why a certain conclusion was drawn. We all went to school to learn how to analyze, so lets use these skills, instead of at the sound of a person saying it's about Sikhi and everyone steps up with their opinion and don't present no historical evidence or provide Gurbani pankti or Shabads to back it up. IF we want to learn about Sikhi the hard way has to be taken. This ask a question, everyone rushes to answer with their manmat is not working for since the site started and will not work in the future. Once we go before Dharma Raja is he going to say did you follow only five's opinion and how many opinions did you follow and listen too? God's slave (Dharam Raj) is not interested in opinions, so why are we interested in opinions? We know why Pedrorizzo is interested in opinions; to slander Guru Sahib. All Dharma Raja will ask is how many good actions did you do in Gurmat.

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peedrorizzo whats more selfish seeking to fight against injustice and tyranny regardless of the consequences or sitting idly by and not doing nothing while innocent people are opressed and terrorised by corrupt government officials?..well i guess everythings fine if you and your family are safe and the rest of the world is on fire?...in my opinion thats more selfish!....wasnt it voltaire who said that the hottests places in hell are reserved for those who do nothing while evil prospers....bro the khalsa kashatriya dharm is a path of kurbani..it isnt for the faint hearted...if you care too much about family and possessions..then i advise you never to take amrit and never to join the fauj of akaal purkh..because at the end of the day thats exactly what it is..a FAUJ...killing and dieing against unrighteousness is a part of this dharm if you like it or not

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Do you? Unless you've gone back to every single post you've made over the past few years and edited them, that is a lie. Do you mean 'every post' or 'some posts' because I can show you a few posts you made last week which didn't mention doing paat. Some of them were using filthy language that was blocked by the posting system or the mods. I'm sure someone with your avastha operates in ways people like me can never comprehend.

Please share the filthy language post that was said. I would like to here what you consider filthy. And about the paat thing, when a sentence is to be taken literally you don't, when it's suppose to be an post on Chardikala, you want to take it literally......seriously relax and let go. When you hold on to things that's when it makes you rigid and makes you worse off. Many posters probably have the impression that i have a deep feeling of hate for Pedrorizzo after reading what i wrote to him, but it's actually the opposite of hate. Sometimes people need a different push in the right direction. Not everyone is the same and require different pushes to get to the same goal.

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You just seem to have a hell of a big sense of self-importance that comes across even on the Internet.

One huge flaw in your personality I would like to highlight is that you can rarely, if ever, distinguish between friend and foe. Although I guess your answer will be that a person don't need friends if he has God's favour. Which is understandable but I suppose I'll have to take your word for it. I'm sure you have friends in real-life and I wonder if you behave with them as you do with people on this site - y'know, people who you are certain you will never have to face or meet. I'm sure you don't. Sometimes this emboldens a man to say things he doesn't really mean when he thinks there'll be no consequences.

If i was about self-importance, then i wouldn't tell others to follow rehat. I would make one up and tell others to follow it. Neither will i tell others to do paat or follow Gurmat, i would make it up and tell others to read it. Instead others on this thread have gone on about the same thing your accusing me about. If someone is telling you to look at Gurmat then don't take it the wrong way. But poster do and scream at the screen then. One thread that is full of pyare even though there is a differenct of opinion, is the thread on Buddhist monks in the feedback section. I wish those two SInghs would come here and give us all a lesson on Sikh history and defence

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