How Can We Know What Is Truth , Since Everything In Religion Is Based On Sharda ?

[Guest]

People on this forum have some prejudices against me ... well sorry for that :biggrin2:

trust me I am just a regular sikh like anyone else .

but this one is a serious thing which has been troubling me for weeks now :stupidme:

The thing is I started as a child in sikh family . When I was in my 7th grade , there was a punjabi/sikhi class in our local gurdwara . I attended and learnt a lot about panjabi and sikhi at 13 of age . At that time it was something very fascinating .

At the age of 14 , I took amrit and unfortunately gave up at the age of 16 , because as I stepped up in puberty , my mind diverted to all sorts .

Now , I am 22 and a year back got influenced by naastik and agnostics (shankaa vaadi :biggrin2: )

So right now I am at a stage when I am full of all sorts of doubts . Since atheism and science has influenced me , I now cannot get myself to accept any idea unless it makes up sense logically or has some unanonymous scientific fact backing it up , which is very difficult or even impossible when dealing with religions or dharams ..

for example , the undisputed fact is that 2+2 is 4 . this is a universal truth , a law !

a muslim , a sikh , a hindu , a christian , a naastik all will give you same answer to 2+2 , i.e 4

now , go and ask same individuals from different religion about their view of god and afterlife ,etc.

hindu will say something different , sikh will have something different , jew , christian , buddhist , naastik will have some other stories .

And if I ask them to give me just a "ratti maatar saboot" (a mustard seed equivalent proof) of what they say , they either evade the question or use a "strawman fallacy" or something else ..

We say there is a 84 lakh joonia da ged , do we have any evidence for transmigration of soul ? we don't remember experiencing our last janam .

but then when I saw the buddhist self-immolation , it was like yeah apparently supernatural stuff do exist ! and when i heard here that bhai Gurdas being incarnated as bear again , its as if hinting that god is not really as merciful as religions claim him to be ... I mean none of our karma goes unpaid , right ? so he doesn't spare us , though he can if he wished to !

How do you know that death is not the end of all existence , but rather just another way to a new birth ?

[Kaal]

How do you know that death is not the end of all existence , but rather just another way to a new birth ?

Only atheists believe it is the end of our human existence. All religions see it as birth. Most important, Sikhi/Gurbani views this world as a temporary illusionary dream, when we die we wake up into reality. However, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism believe in seven heavens and Gurbani states these heavens are under Maya. Buddhism and Sikhi is higher, however Sikhi has come directly from Vaheguru/God, so Sikhi is above Haumai whereas Buddhism is under Haumai.

Sikhi/Gurmat is about experience. If you did intense meditation/bhagti on Naam and Gurbani, practice all of Guru Sahib's rehita from Guru Granth Sahib Jee and Guru Gobind Singh Jee then you will obtain spiritual experiences. You will then see the spiritual lokh (world/life).

but then when I saw the buddhist self-immolation , it was like yeah apparently supernatural stuff do exist ! and when i heard here that bhai Gurdas being incarnated as bear again , its as if hinting that god is not really as merciful as religions claim him to be ... I mean none of our karma goes unpaid , right ? so he doesn't spare us , though he can if he wished to !

Dasam Granth has stories of meditators who could self-immolate. This is weakness in not accepting God's will. Guru Sahib and Gursikhs accepted God's will and died through being truly martyred or natural death. I do not know who you are referring to when you say Gurdas jee. I know there is a story of a Sikh (not sure what his name is) becoming a bear but that was due to his lack of humility and compassion. In Baba Harnam Singh's (rumpurkhera walay) time, an amritdhari sikh seriously injured his leg and became disabled so one day him and his family went complaining to Bhai Harnam Singh jee at the Gurdwara and Bhai Harnam Singh jee explained that in his previous life he in a fit of anger due to his own reasons broke his dog's leg. In this life he paid for that. However, if he practiced intense meditation on Naam he would have erased this paap. This is what Sikhs these days lack - Bhagti on Naam and Gurbani because if they did they would not doubt Sikhi and would literally experience God/Guru Sahib. We should also practice compassion, humility, tolerance etc.

We say there is a 84 lakh joonia da ged , do we have any evidence for transmigration of soul ? we don't remember experiencing our last janam .

When we enter a new vessel our janams are not remembered we enter this illusion (world). Only when we die again are we aware of our previous lives in the afterlife. Sometimes in dreams people witness a previous birth in an unclear dream without knowing its a previous birth. However, if you want to know your previous births then you need to jap naam. It's actually really easy to experience who we were in our previous lives through Naam. Also, depending on our bhagti, compassion, level of avguns and guns, good deeds and bad deeds etc we are born in particular religions and convert to those religions or become an athiest.

ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਏ ਗੁਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਮਈਆ ॥

Because of devotional worship in my past incarnations, I have been born into this life. The Guru has inspired me to worship the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har.

ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਈਆ ॥੭॥

Worshipping, worshipping Him with devotion, I found the Lord, and then I merged into the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har. ||7||

Look how long it takes to experience God ^ By continuously doing bhagti in our lives we come to meet Vaheguru/God. Patience is a big virtue in Sikhi -

ਸਤਿ ਸੂਰਉ ਸੀਲਿ ਬਲਵੰਤੁ ਸਤ ਭਾਇ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਘਨ ਗਰੂਅ ਮਤਿ ਨਿਰਵੈਰਿ ਲੀਣਾ ॥

He is the Warrior Hero of Truth, humility is His Power. His Loving Nature inspires the Congregation with deep and profound understanding; He is absorbed in the Lord, free of hate and vengeance.

ਜਿਸੁ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਧੁਰਿ ਧਵਲੁ ਧੁਜਾ ਸੇਤਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਬੀਣਾ ॥

Patience has been His white banner since the beginning of time, planted on the bridge to heaven.

ਪਰਸਹਿ ਸੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਜਿਹ ਕਰਤਾਰਹ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥

The Saints meet their Beloved Guru, who is united with the Creator Lord.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਵਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਓ ਅਮਰਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਤਉ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੭॥

Serving the True Guru, they find peace; Guru Amar Daas has given them this ability. ||7||

hindu will say something different , sikh will have something different , jew , christian , buddhist , naastik will have some other stories .

Sikhi is the True Religion as stated in Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Dasam Granth and Bhai Gurdas Jee's vaaran. As stated by Bhai Gurdas Jee -

siqgur nwnk dyau Awpu aupwieAw]

sathigur naanak dhaeo aap oupaaeiaa||

God himself created the True Guru Nanak.

and

siqgur nwnk dyau hY prmysru soeI]

sathigur naanak dhaeo hai paramaesar soee||

Guru Nanak is the True Guru and is God Himself.

and Guru Gobind Singh Jee states -

jwih qhW qY Drmu clwie ] kbuiD krn qy lok htwie ] 29]

jaahi thehaa(n) thai dhharam chalaae || kabudhh karan thae lok hattaae || 29||

Go to the world and promote the Dharma (faith of righteousness). And prevent mankind from wrong practices (like wickedness and depravity).(29)

Dasam Granth describes all previous avtars and prophets to be full of Haumai and were defeated by Kaal. Therefore, Vaheguru/God sent himself (Guru Nanak) to earth start a True Religion. If you want me to explain in detail how the universe was created just ask.

[MokhamSingh]

Beutiful post Kaal Ji , thank you.

Just wanted to add that faith can start off blind but as we delve deeper and deeper into Gurbani the "blind" starts to become reality. The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

p.s. just changed the font on the latter part of the post:

siqgur nwnk dyau Awpu aupwieAw]

sathigur naanak dhaeo aap oupaaeiaa||

God himself created the True Guru Nanak.

and

siqgur nwnk dyau hY prmysru soeI]

sathigur naanak dhaeo hai paramaesar soee||

Guru Nanak is the True Guru and is God Himself.

and Guru Gobind Singh Jee states -

jwih qhW qY Drmu clwie ] kbuiD krn qy lok htwie ] 29]

jaahi thehaa(n) thai dhharam chalaae || kabudhh karan thae lok hattaae || 29||

Go to the world and promote the Dharma (faith of righteousness). And prevent mankind from wrong practices (like wickedness and depravity).(29)

[PAL 07]

Only a master, Guru, Prophet, Messiah etc can tell you the truth, then its your sharda that will give you, your subjective knowledge of what truth is. Truth is different for everyone. Sant Jarnail Singh Bindravale once said that there is one thing that is not in Guru Granth Sahib and that is lies. It is full of truth.

[Not2Cool2Argue]

A lot of ppl have problems believing that God is kind and compassionate despite the fact that every religion says that he is. Most ppl say if God was so kind why is there suffering in this world? Well the answer to that is karma, everybody suffers because of their deeds. Then some ppl (like OP) says, "I mean none of our karma goes unpaid , right ? so he doesn't spare us , though he can if he wished to" So now ppl want Waheguru to erase our karms too.

But ppl forget that not only is God kind and loving but the full of Justice. If someone committed murder, and they never got caught by the authorities, that person won't escape God's justice. So part of being kind is also being Fair and punishing those people that did bad things. Other ppl say that since we can't remember what we did wrong in our past life, we shouldn't be punished for it in this life. But would u set a murderer free, if he lost his memory?

The fact that we don't remember our past life, is a kindness, it allows us to start over.

If you want God to be forgiving, mankind has to be forgiving. If someone kidnapped and killed your child, you would pray and hope for vengeance your whole life, and if God were just to forgive that person, would you be glad?

[Khalistani187]

Only atheists believe it is the end of our human existence. All religions see it as birth. Most important, Sikhi/Gurbani views this world as a temporary illusionary dream, when we die we wake up into reality. However, Christianity, Islam and Hinduism believe in seven heavens and Gurbani states these heavens are under Maya. Buddhism and Sikhi is higher, however Sikhi has come directly from Vaheguru/God, so Sikhi is above Haumai whereas Buddhism is under Haumai.

Sikhi/Gurmat is about experience. If you did intense meditation/bhagti on Naam and Gurbani, practice all of Guru Sahib's rehita from Guru Granth Sahib Jee and Guru Gobind Singh Jee then you will obtain spiritual experiences. You will then see the spiritual lokh (world/life).

Dasam Granth has stories of meditators who could self-immolate. This is weakness in not accepting God's will. Guru Sahib and Gursikhs accepted God's will and died through being truly martyred or natural death. I do not know who you are referring to when you say Gurdas jee. I know there is a story of a Sikh (not sure what his name is) becoming a bear but that was due to his lack of humility and compassion. In Baba Harnam Singh's (rumpurkhera walay) time, an amritdhari sikh seriously injured his leg and became disabled so one day him and his family went complaining to Bhai Harnam Singh jee at the Gurdwara and Bhai Harnam Singh jee explained that in his previous life he in a fit of anger due to his own reasons broke his dog's leg. In this life he paid for that. However, if he practiced intense meditation on Naam he would have erased this paap. This is what Sikhs these days lack - Bhagti on Naam and Gurbani because if they did they would not doubt Sikhi and would literally experience God/Guru Sahib. We should also practice compassion, humility, tolerance etc.

When we enter a new vessel our janams are not remembered we enter this illusion (world). Only when we die again are we aware of our previous lives in the afterlife. Sometimes in dreams people witness a previous birth in an unclear dream without knowing its a previous birth. However, if you want to know your previous births then you need to jap naam. It's actually really easy to experience who we were in our previous lives through Naam. Also, depending on our bhagti, compassion, level of avguns and guns, good deeds and bad deeds etc we are born in particular religions and convert to those religions or become an athiest.

ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਏ ਗੁਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਜਮਈਆ ॥

Because of devotional worship in my past incarnations, I have been born into this life. The Guru has inspired me to worship the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har.

ਭਗਤਿ ਭਗਤਿ ਕਰਤੇ ਹਰਿ ਪਾਇਆ ਜਾ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਈਆ ॥੭॥

Worshipping, worshipping Him with devotion, I found the Lord, and then I merged into the Name of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, Har. ||7||

Look how long it takes to experience God ^ By continuously doing bhagti in our lives we come to meet Vaheguru/God. Patience is a big virtue in Sikhi -

ਸਤਿ ਸੂਰਉ ਸੀਲਿ ਬਲਵੰਤੁ ਸਤ ਭਾਇ ਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਘਨ ਗਰੂਅ ਮਤਿ ਨਿਰਵੈਰਿ ਲੀਣਾ ॥

He is the Warrior Hero of Truth, humility is His Power. His Loving Nature inspires the Congregation with deep and profound understanding; He is absorbed in the Lord, free of hate and vengeance.

ਜਿਸੁ ਧੀਰਜੁ ਧੁਰਿ ਧਵਲੁ ਧੁਜਾ ਸੇਤਿ ਬੈਕੁੰਠ ਬੀਣਾ ॥

Patience has been His white banner since the beginning of time, planted on the bridge to heaven.

ਪਰਸਹਿ ਸੰਤ ਪਿਆਰੁ ਜਿਹ ਕਰਤਾਰਹ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ॥

The Saints meet their Beloved Guru, who is united with the Creator Lord.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੂ ਸੇਵਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਓ ਅਮਰਿ ਗੁਰਿ ਕੀਤਉ ਜੋਗੁ ॥੭॥

Serving the True Guru, they find peace; Guru Amar Daas has given them this ability. ||7||

Sikhi is the True Religion as stated in Guru Granth Sahib Jee, Dasam Granth and Bhai Gurdas Jee's vaaran. As stated by Bhai Gurdas Jee -

siqgur nwnk dyau Awpu aupwieAw]

sathigur naanak dhaeo aap oupaaeiaa||

God himself created the True Guru Nanak.

and

siqgur nwnk dyau hY prmysru soeI]

sathigur naanak dhaeo hai paramaesar soee||

Guru Nanak is the True Guru and is God Himself.

and Guru Gobind Singh Jee states -

jwih qhW qY Drmu clwie ] kbuiD krn qy lok htwie ] 29]

jaahi thehaa(n) thai dhharam chalaae || kabudhh karan thae lok hattaae || 29||

Go to the world and promote the Dharma (faith of righteousness). And prevent mankind from wrong practices (like wickedness and depravity).(29)

Dasam Granth describes all previous avtars and prophets to be full of Haumai and were defeated by Kaal. Therefore, Vaheguru/God sent himself (Guru Nanak) to earth start a True Religion. If you want me to explain in detail how the universe was created just ask.

Bro I would like to know how the universe was created in detail! Thanks

[Guest]

Bro I would like to know how the universe was created in detail! Thanks

only science can answer that for u ... religion can't !

[alias]

^^^, its in gurbani! i am middle of doing a pdf. on creation of universe. will post here when iv finished. maybe a month.

and, the whole sharda thing, is that guru naanak dev ji,say what they saw, and said, trus me, its there! and, thas it. we all know what proof as in physial evidence, that our gurus had somthing special. when people asked, how are you so special, our gurus replied, its god baby!

2nd, yes. 2 + 2 = 4. its a law. you should know that, laws are only correct up to a point. there were 4 books written when mathematics was proven to be true, as in, 4 books to prove 1 + 1 = 2. but it was done. how was this done? on the basis of assumptions. and well founded assumptions at that. it was only the ones that went through the calculations in these books that they found that this 1 + 1 = 2 fact, in in fact, a fact!. in this same sense, guru naanak dev ji was the 'spiritual' mathematician if u like..

another major point is that the 2+2=4 logic breaks down in extreme physical conditions. black/white holes.. and espesh at the quantum level. a law is only a law, in a given set of conditions.

as for evidence for the previous life thing, look at BBC documentry called "the boy who lived before". ull prob hav to torrent it or sumin! not that im saying u shud. but defo have a looka at this doc. then look at another bc documentry called the buddha boy. then search in u tube for a documentry in parts, called NDEs (near death experiences). the last case was of a person who was >clinically< dead, who could tell everyone in the room their convoz etc.. search for "john chang" in u tube too.. theres more proof..! you cannot deny any of this proof that there is somthing more than meets the eye. furthermore, the hand print, body-print, and foot-print of guru naanak dev G. these factual real tangble 'evidence', cannot be refuted, let alone ignored. there is somthing that exists that is more than the physicality of the universe. simple analogy, the EM spec. we only see what we do.. the rest, is there, but we need other instruments to view them.. in this same sense, we need to unlock whats inside our own bodies, to feel the so called 'religious' experience. tbh, there is only 1 relegion.., that of humanity. n love. n this is what u must concentrate on.. dont look at how people have corrupted religion. cuz they defo have..

and as for the dancing bear thing, its karam. who knows how bhai gurdaas treated the guy who just wanted prashaad cuz he was in a hurry.. its haraam to disturb somones heart like that. and which is why, guru G says, if u talk bura (bad) to somone, your love for ur guru breaks. understanding how karam works is very hard, but not imposible!.

id love to meet u ajeet! u remind me so much of me! for me, if its nor religion that gets me hi, its science! u can PM me if u wana.