Has Anyone Ever Read "the God Delusion" By Richard Dawkins ?

[Mat Pulo Rai 32]

Not even Richard himself is even sure about the existence of God. He has said in his book that out of 7 he’s 6.9 sure that God doesn’t exist. Hasn't he?

Richard has said he doesn't believe in God, as there's no proof in favour to date, he says its like saying just because you cant disprove God doesnt mean its True, same as you cant disprove Thor or Zeus or the Spaghetti monster.

[VanHelsingh 1,985]

Well, I apologise as I can't find any reference to what I was referring to earlier. Very strange unless I've got my banis mixed up. Again, apologies for the confusion.

[Shadow 18]

Richard has said he doesn't believe in God, as there's no proof in favour to date, he says its like saying just because you cant disprove God doesnt mean its True, same as you cant disprove Thor or Zeus or the Spaghetti monster.

Richard has recently said in a debate that he's an agnostic.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in God because you’re not giving any answers to Ajeet?

[Mat Pulo Rai 32]

Richard has recently said in a debate that he's an agnostic.

Just out of curiosity, do you believe in God because you’re not giving any answers to Ajeet?

Ajeet? I dont think he asked whether i believe or not, but for these kinda of debates on whether God is true or not is exactly what Guru shaibs did when he came to earth interms of qulling the miths Hindus held also Muslim though according to Guru Nanak they were half way there in believing in 1 God, its just that we Sikhs are to humble or scared off opening the book of whether what we believe is true or not, due to the fact once its open, it may not be reconcilable.

Far as my Belief im 100% sure of a there's a being that created him self. But I have tangible proof.

[Shadow 18]

Ajeet? I dont think he asked whether i believe or not, but for these kinda of debates on whether God is true or not is exactly what Guru shaibs did when he came to earth interms of qulling the miths Hindus held also Muslim though according to Guru Nanak they were half way there in believing in 1 God, its just that we Sikhs are to humble or scared off opening the book of whether what we believe is true or not, due to the fact once its open, it may not be reconcilable.

Far as my Belief im 100% sure of a there's a being that created him self. But I have tangible proof.

Why don't you give proof because you were demanding everyone else to prove it.

[Only five 1,124]

Have you read Guru Granth Sahib?

http://www.srigranth...on=Page&Param=1

This is the best answer given in this whole forum to any question.

[Only five 1,124]

Well its called, if your strong enough in your own belief then a little abit of a debate wouldn't shake your foundations.

Why waste your time on it, when you don't even have Gurbani down properly? :biggrin2:

As for the title singh, No its not just Sikhs who use that surname, originally used by Hindu Kshatriya warriors and kings, long before the SIkh nation was born.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singh

So are you saying ajeet is a hindu from the kshatriya or a king. But how would you know what he is when he didn't even tell you? Once someone said Bhagat Singh was an atheist, then you ask them, how come he has Singh attached to his name, then all you can hear is swear words coming out of their mouth. Then a clever buddy speaks up and says what you said. Then it's told hes not and all you hear is more swear words coming out of the not so clever people's mouths. :biggrin2:

[Mat Pulo Rai 32]

Why don't you give proof because you were demanding everyone else to prove it.

I never demanded it, man read what people are typing instead of reading what you want to hear, i think you just have a misconception of what reasonable Athests believe.

[Only five 1,124]

You have to appreciate that at the time, the Gurbani and other religious scriptures were compiled, spiritual leaders felt an obligation to explain many thanks that - in reality - they could not explain, because Science was not yet advanced enough. For example, the old testament's explanation of how God created the Earth in 7 days.

Similarly, use the Gurbani as a spiritual guide in your life but not as a source of explanation for matters that require scientific analysis.

This poster just called our Guru as incomplete!!!!!! First question to this poster have you read all of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj? If so, do you understand all of what Guru Sahib is telling us? Last question does Satguru explain how the world was created or explain any other thing that is related to science?

Do answer because you made a very strong statement and it must be explained.

[Only five 1,124]

I never demanded it, man read what people are typing instead of reading what you want to hear, i think you just have a misconception of what reasonable Athests believe.

YOu say you have tangible proof for God, so then provide it. Why are you trying to side track the original person's request?

[Shadow 18]

I never demanded it, man read what people are typing instead of reading what you want to hear, i think you just have a misconception of what reasonable Athests believe.

You were still asking others to prove it even if you said it indirectly or directly. And now here you say, ‘I have tangible proof’ when you could have provided that proof at the beginning instead of being a circus clown.

Uh Atheists believe there is no God. Not hard to understand. If you think I have any disrespect for atheists you’re wrong, in fact I have the same respect for everyone but the way Ajeet came boasting on this forum was inappropriate. But instead you were applauding his childish behaviour. There’s something called having a sensible discussion or just being a fool to provoke argument. It’s equally stupid if a theist did the same thing on an atheist forum.

Btw, this is funny LOL

[Kaal 21]

The gist behind Guru Granth Sahib jee has seriously been missed. Faith + Listening + Love of Naam (Vaheguru mantar) produces EXPERIENCE. Also, Naam produces Gyaan (knowledge) and Budh (intelligence).

The intelligence some of you are talking about is not intelligence, but the ability to know and do more than what an animal can. Intelligence comes from knowing your source/origin (God) and by taking birth with karams of compassion, charity, good deeds, reciting naam (from another religion) until Vaheguru leads that person to Guru Nanak and then on top of that inspires that Sikh to never forget God. Sikhs need to grow their Naam and Gurbani Abhiyaas so that they can erase their mayl which will enable them to experience spirituality.

Those who have not experienced God should not assume God doesnt exist. Your doubt exists due to being entrapped in the power of Ego which has entangled you in Maya/illusion, thus your ego blinds you to the extent that you only believe what you perceive through these worldly senses. The ego is such that it does not want to believe anything else except for what it knows through Maya. The karams are to blame, as we continued this doubt and love for Maya.

ਦੇਂਦੇ ਥਾਵਹੁ ਦਿਤਾ ਚੰਗਾ ਮਨਮੁਖਿ ਐਸਾ ਜਾਣੀਐ ॥

They prefer the gift, instead of the Giver; such is the way of the self-willed manmukhs.

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਮਤਿ ਚਤੁਰਾਈ ਤਾ ਕੀ ਕਿਆ ਕਰਿ ਆਖਿ ਵਖਾਣੀਐ ॥

What can anyone say about their intelligence, their understanding or their cleverness?

God purposely stays hidden to test his creation. Vaheguru/Guru Nanak is a diamond and diamonds are rare to find. He is only found through Gur Shabad, which is the Vaheguru mantar.

ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਗੁਪਤੋ ਵਰਤੈ ਗੁਰ ਸਬਦੀ ਦੇਖਿ ਨਿਹਾਰੀ ਜੀਉ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

In the water, on the land, and in the sky, He is pervading but hidden; through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, He is revealed. ||Pause||

When we experience God, this is personal, but it is not personal to another who is Gurmukh too as they both can share spirituality. It is up to the Gurmukh if they want any one else to experience spirituality, if they do they will only for that person who is innocent like a child. The one under the power of Ego is bound by it until Vaheguru himself does kirpa -

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਆਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥

In ego they come, and in ego they go.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੰਮਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੁਆ ॥

In ego they are born, and in ego they die.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਦਿਤਾ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਲਇਆ ॥

In ego they give, and in ego they take.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਖਟਿਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਗਇਆ ॥

In ego they earn, and in ego they lose.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਚਿਆਰੁ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੁ ॥

In ego they become truthful or false.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਪਾਪ ਪੁੰਨ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥

In ego they reflect on virtue and sin.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਨਰਕਿ ਸੁਰਗਿ ਅਵਤਾਰੁ ॥

In ego they go to heaven or hell.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਹਸੈ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਰੋਵੈ ॥

In ego they laugh, and in ego they weep.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਭਰੀਐ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਧੋਵੈ ॥

In ego they become dirty, and in ego they are washed clean.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਜਾਤੀ ਜਿਨਸੀ ਖੋਵੈ ॥

In ego they lose social status and class.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮੂਰਖੁ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਿਆਣਾ ॥

In ego they are ignorant, and in ego they are wise.

ਮੋਖ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਕੀ ਸਾਰ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ ॥

They do not know the value of salvation and liberation.

ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਮਾਇਆ ਹਉ ਵਿਚਿ ਛਾਇਆ ॥

In ego they love Maya, and in ego they are kept in darkness by it.

ਹਉਮੈ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਜੰਤ ਉਪਾਇਆ ॥

Living in ego, mortal beings are created.

ਹਉਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਾ ਦਰੁ ਸੂਝੈ ॥

When one understands ego, then the Lord's gate is known.

ਗਿਆਨ ਵਿਹੂਣਾ ਕਥਿ ਕਥਿ ਲੂਝੈ ॥

Without spiritual wisdom, they babble and argue.

ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਲਿਖੀਐ ਲੇਖੁ ॥

O Nanak, by the Lord's Command, destiny is recorded.

It is not a difficult task to experience God. The term Evidence is used by the ego due to the influence of Maya. In a world of Maya, the only evidence will be within Maya. However, if the people of the world became a Khalsa then there will be no Maya and evidence of God will by perceived naturally by all. For the Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Athiest, Buddhist, Doubter and Egoist, God is beyond them -

vyd kqybhu bwhrw lyK AlyK n liKAw jweI]

God is beyond Vedas and Katebas (Holy books of Semitic religions) and He cannot be visualized.

rUpu AnUpu Acrju hY drsnu idRsit Agocr BweI]

His form is grand and awe-inspiring. He is beyond the reach of body organs.

ieku kvwau pswau kir qolu n qulwDwr n smweI]

He created this cosmos by His one big bang which cannot be weighed on any scale.

kQnI bdnI bwhrw QkY sbdu suriq ilv lweI]

He is indescribable and many a man in order to reach Him has got tired by putting their consciousness into the Word.

mn bc krm Agocrw miq buiD swiD ik soJI Qik pweI]

Being beyond the ken of mind, speech, and action, the wisdom, intellect and all practices have also left hope of catching hold of Him.

ACl ACyd AByd hY Bgiq vClu swDsMgiq CweI]

Undeceivable, beyond time and non dual, the Lord is kind to devotees and pervades through the Holy Congregation.

vfw Awip vfI vifAweI ]16]

He is great and His grandeur is also great. (16)

http://www.sikhitoth...p?ShabadID=5707

[Mat Pulo Rai 32]

@ As Kaal has put it, he is right God is out of the reach of every other religion and faith, it’s not sad just that Vaheguru took form in Guru Nanak, not that God didnt send Gurmukhs Brahm Giaanis before,I know me and Kaal differ on this view, but now we have the eternal form of Vaheguru in Joth Saroop Guru Granth Shaib Jee, Kaals overall explanation of Such (Truth) is right

But back to tangible proof, Guru Kirpa Naal I have access to something called Atam Raas is similar to Amrit Raas, but a lower form, God has made a Food for the mind it’s called Amrit raas, Har Raas, Amrit Raas, Brahm Raas

anmrith ras peeaa gur sabadhee ham naam vittahu kurabaan |1|

Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, I drink in the Ambrosial Essence; I am a sacrifice to the Naam. ||1||

maajh mehalaa 5 |

Maajh, Fifth Mehl:

anmrith naam sadhaa niramaleeaa |

The Ambrosial Naam, the Name of the Lord, is eternally pure.

sukhadhaaee dhookh biddaaran hareeaa |

The Lord is the Giver of Peace and the Dispeller of sorrow.

avar saadh chakh sagalae dhaekhae man har ras sabh thae meethaa jeeo |1|

I have seen and tasted all other flavors, but to my mind, the Subtle Essence of the Lord is the sweetest of all. ||1||

jo jo peevai so thripathaavai |

Whoever drinks this in, is satisfied.

amar hovai jo naam ras paavai |

Whoever obtains the Sublime Essence of the Naam becomes immortal.

naam nidhaan thisehi paraapath jis sabadh guroo man voothaa jeeo |2|

The Treasure of the Naam is obtained by one whose mind is filled with the Word of the Guru's Shabad. ||2||

jin har ras paaeiaa so thripath aghaanaa |

One who obtains the Sublime Essence of the Lord is satisfied and fulfilled.

jin har saadh paaeiaa so naahi ddulaanaa |

One who obtains this Flavor of the Lord does not waver.

thisehi paraapath har har naamaa jis masathak bhaageethaa jeeo |3|

One who has this destiny written on his forehead obtains the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||

har eikas hath aaeiaa varasaanae bahuthaerae |

The Lord has come into the hands of the One, the Guru, who has blessed so many with good fortune.

this lag mukath bheae ghanaerae |

Attached to Him, a great many have been liberated.

naam nidhaanaa guramukh paaeeai kahu naanak viralee ddeethaa jeeo |4|15|22|

The Gurmukh obtains the Treasure of the Naam; says Nanak, those who see the Lord are very rare.

This is what avasta Guru Shaib has blessed me.

Through Dedication to Guru, Guru blesses his children with gifts, Like Amrit Raas, Roum Roum, Unhand Shabad and so on.

This isnt exclusive too selected people, Guru Shaibs have said, that God is forever calling us (Mun) home, (Nijh Gaar)

sadhaa bulaaeeai mehal n aavai kio kar dharageh seejhai |

He is always invited, but he does not go to the Mansion of the Lord's Presence. How shall he be accepted in the Court of the Lord?

So to get to where I am is quite simple, give up Hankaar, give up the attachment to flavors, includes alcohol, meat, smoking, drugs, (if you dont already do this, then its fantastic) Give up arguments. As according to Sat Guru Vaheguru is always sending amrit raas

anmrith sadhaa varasadhaa boojhan boojhanehaar |

The Ambrosial Nectar rains down continually; realize this through realization

guramukh jinaee bujhiaa har anmrith rakhiaa our dhaar |

Those who, as Gurmukh, realize this, keep the Lord's Ambrosial Nectar enshrined within their hearts.

har anmrith peevehi sadhaa rang raathae houmai thrisanaa maar |

They drink in the Lord's Ambrosial Nectar, and remain forever imbued with the Lord; they conquer egotism and thirsty desires.

But due to us not having any knowledge of this, Gurbani says this is our Avasta

eis dhaehee andhar panch chor vasehi kaam krodh lobh mohu ahankaaraa |

Within this body dwell the five thieves: sexual desire, anger, greed, emotional attachment and egotism.

anmrith loottehi manamukh nehee boojhehi koe n sunai pookaaraa |

They plunder the Nectar, but the self-willed manmukh does not realize it; no one hears his complaint.

I obtained this Avasta by a strict rehath which was told to me by Gur Mukhs, its 3½ hours simran a day, 2½ in the morning and an hour in the evening. Gur Mukhs never told what avasta i would be blessed with as he said Guru Shaib do Thool (weight up your deeds/abiaas) according to this he blesses his children with Avastas, so you may get a higher avasta than me, only Guru Jee knows.

guramukh thol thuolaaeisee sach tharaajee thol |

As Gurmukh, they are weighed and measured, in the balance and the scales of Truth.

[akhandeurope 2]

Mat pulo rai, I think you're greatly mistaken if you think that shabadh you quoted shows your avastha. Just merely tasting sweetness in your tounge isn't gurmat russ. The real har amrit russ is when a gurmukh constantly drinks in it and this amrit flows throughout the body. This only comes with aathpehar abhiyaas. With each breath absorbed in automatic simran the amrit flows and the russ increases as avastha goes up. When one truly gets russ, all other pleasures of maya, whether it's food, tv, sleep etc seem very lowly in comparison to anand of amrit.

Anyways if you're doing 3.5 hours simran a day then in this kaljug I applaud your effort. However to get proper kirpa, one needs to make sure they are keeping full physical rehit (as prescribed by guru gobind singh for amritdharis) ontop of doing this much naam simran, plus reading plenty of extra gurbani, listening to kirtan, doing sangat, seva and so on.

Regarding dawkins, ff the mind is under control of the punj chor then perhaps it's better not to get into these naastik topics as it could ruin your faith. First do your kmayee then have debates with other people aslong as you think it will benefit them.

[Guest]

I am sorry , but I was forced to ask this , The problem of evil is such a strong argument against god ..

Agree some people say we suffer because of our past karams , but let me ask you :

would a mother put his/her son under deliberate suffering to punish him for his karams ?

remember mother is a mortal and is god is defined to be as infinitely times more merciful than a mother ! because he is god after all

so how could god put so many of his people through so much misery ???

we live in comfy homes , sleep in warm blankets , drink from aquaguard , move in cars , and thank god for being so kind towards us !!???

then why isn't he kind to a person who sleeps in the rut , dies due to winter because he has no clothes , goes insane because of misery in life , drinks impure water and every day for that person is a nightmare ... and all the time he is begging god for showing little grace on him , out of his "infinite providence treasurehouse"

Also Consider this :: When you see a wretched leper begging on the street side or an orphan , you feel tears in your eyes , yes or no ?? I am sure all of us had such moments ..

but yet we are paapi because of 5 vices . then how come we can feel pain of fellow humans , but god (who is inifinitely more merciful ) can't ??

Either God wants to abolish evil, and cannot; then he is impotent

or he can, but does not want to ,then he is wicked.

If God can abolish evil, and God really wants to do it, why is there evil in the world? –

Epicurus

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil