Homosexuality

[Guest]

Please no jokes as this will just serve to make a serious discussion into a mockery.

In all honesty both Punjabi Sikhs and white Sikhs have their share of goods and bads. Yogi Bhajjan did do some good work in bringing people from a non Sikh background into the Sikh fold. For this I beleive he used Yoga to attract them. Contrary to what most might think but 3ho is not 100% in line with Yogi Bhajjan's thinking either. For example, Yogi Bhajjan was of the opinion that Homosexuality is abnormal and not in line with Gurmat lifestyle yet according to Guruka Singh and Mr Sikhnet homosexuality is perfectly normal and in no way does it go against Gurmat. In this I beleive that Guruka Singh is passing his opinion based on Manmat rather than Gurmat because he does not give any example from Bani or from the life of the Gurus to support his opinion.

Yogi bhajan never said anything negative against homosexuality .

Ok , if you think homosexuality is against gurmat , show me where it says in SGGS .

SGGS is much above this worldly dramas of sexual orientation , etc etc..

Killing gays and discrimination has always been the domain of abrahamic religions

[Jonny101 4,496]

Yogi bhajan never said anything negative against homosexuality .

Ok , if you think homosexuality is against gurmat , show me where it says in SGGS .

SGGS is much above this worldly dramas of sexual orientation , etc etc..

Killing gays and discrimination has always been the domain of abrahamic religions

An excerpt on his attitude toward homosexuality reads:

"...Yogi Bhajan at first was shocked by the phenomenon. Through the 1970s and early 1980s, Yogi Bhajan taught that the condition could be cured through intensive yoga and self-analysis. By the late 1980s, however, Yogi Bhajan resigned himself to the conclusion that "sometimes God goofs" and puts men into women's bodies and vice versa."

--Yogi Bhajan, Comparative, Comprehensive Communication, Eugene, OR, 3HO Transcripts, 1980, pp. 102-3, 221

http://indiakids.blogspot.ca/2009/03/yogi-bhajan-on-wiki.html

and yes Homosexuality lifestyle is not in accordance to Gurmat. The Akal Takht has given it's hukamnama in this regard as well which says marriage is for a man and woman not same sex. And where did I say kill gays or persecute them? please do not lie and put words into other people's mouths. Just because a person does not agree with homosexuality does not mean they are being hateful towards homosexuals. Our Gurus, Bhagats, Sikhs from puraatan times to the modern times have always practiced marriage between man and woman. No where do we support abnormal sexual deviancy. Please stop trying to mix western culture with Sikhism. Just as Sikhi rejects certain practices of Punjabi culture same way Sikhi rejects some aspects of western culture such as homosexuality.

[JSinghnz 1,221]

An excerpt on his attitude toward homosexuality reads:

"...Yogi Bhajan at first was shocked by the phenomenon. Through the 1970s and early 1980s, Yogi Bhajan taught that the condition could be cured through intensive yoga and self-analysis. By the late 1980s, however, Yogi Bhajan resigned himself to the conclusion that "sometimes God goofs" and puts men into women's bodies and vice versa."

--Yogi Bhajan, Comparative, Comprehensive Communication, Eugene, OR, 3HO Transcripts, 1980, pp. 102-3, 221

http://indiakids.blo...an-on-wiki.html

and yes Homosexuality lifestyle is not in accordance to Gurmat. The Akal Takht has given it's hukamnama in this regard as well which says marriage is for a man and woman not same sex. And where did I say kill gays or persecute them? please do not lie and put words into other people's mouths. Just because a person does not agree with homosexuality does not mean they are being hateful towards homosexuals. Our Gurus, Bhagats, Sikhs from puraatan times to the modern times have always practiced marriage between man and woman. No where do we support abnormal sexual deviancy. Please stop trying to mix western culture with Sikhism. Just as Sikhi rejects certain practices of Punjabi culture same way Sikhi rejects some aspects of western culture such as homosexuality.

Well said Johny.

Long time, no see. What you been upto?

[VanHelsingh 1,995]

Did homosexuality originate from the West? Surely it's a human condition based on physiology and not geographical location?

If it's not in-line with Sikhi then as a Sikh there is no counter argument. I don't agree with the homosexual "way" at all. It's simply not my cup of tea, but I don't consider homosexuals to be lesser human beings or deserving of contempt implied or otherwise. There's just some things you've got to put up your hands and say "Tera bhaana meetha laga" and just get on with it. If we genuinely do believe that Waheguru is in full control of his creation then you must attribute it all to his wisdom.

[Jonny101 4,496]

Well said Johny.

Long time, no see. What you been upto?

Brother, I was in India the last 2 months but always read this forum every chance I got. Great hearing from you.

[Jonny101 4,496]

Did homosexuality originate from the West? Surely it's a human condition based on physiology and not geographical location?

If it's not in-line with Sikhi then as a Sikh there is no counter argument. I don't agree with the homosexual "way" at all. It's simply not my cup of tea, but I don't consider homosexuals to be lesser human beings or deserving of contempt implied or otherwise. There's just some things you've got to put up your hands and say "Tera bhaana meetha laga" and just get on with it. If we genuinely do believe that Waheguru is in full control of his creation then you have attribute it all to his wisdom.

Where have I said that homosexuals are lesser human being? why are people stating things I did not even say? People have all sorts of sexual urges does not mean we act on them. Some people(pedophiles) feel sexual feelings for little children does that make it okay just because they are programmed this way? Living in the west does not mean we get influenced by everything the westerners do. I'm surprised to see how some Sikhs are defending homosexuality as being in accordance with Gurmat, A Sikhs is one who is like a lotus untouched by it's surroundings.

As Sikhs we are not to persecute homosexuals or think of them any less as humans but to go as far as saying that their lifestyle in perfectly okay with Gurmat is ludicrous. If we as Sikhs accept homosexuality as being okay with Gurmat then where do we draw the line? is pedophilia, necrophilia and incest also acceptable to Gurmat according to you?

[Guest]

Did homosexuality originate from the West? Surely it's a human condition based on physiology and not geographical location?

Gay male's brain structure is found similar to those of women and lesbian women's brain structure similar to brain .

there is a theory that if male fetus doesn't get enough testosterone in womb , his brain is not masculinized enough . so he becomes gay

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/111663.php

[Guest]

you know sorry for diverging the main thread , but nothing is more sad than people being holier than thou and "yeah , my religious scripture says XYZ is true ... so it must be ! there's no questioning "

and when you bring them some evidence (verifiable one ) , they put fingers in their ears and 'naah naah I ain't listening' ...

what the doctor says:

[VanHelsingh 1,995]

Where have I said that homosexuals are lesser human being? why are people stating things I did not even say?

I never said you did, brother. I would've quoted you if you had. Also, I started a new paragraph when I made my point about the 'lesser human being' issue, so again, nothing was attributed to you on that front. I was responding to certain attitudes held by people regarding gays.

As Sikhs we are not to persecute homosexuals or think of them any less as humans but to go as far as saying that their lifestyle in perfectly okay with Gurmat is ludicrous. If we as Sikhs accept homosexuality as being okay with Gurmat then where do we draw the line? is pedophilia, necrophilia and incest also acceptable to Gurmat according to you?

Where did I say homosexuality is in-line with Gurmat? I never even suggested such a thing! What an outrageous thing to suggest.

[Guest]

I never said you did, brother. I would've quoted you if you had. Also, I started a new paragraph when I made my point about the 'lesser human being' issue, so again, nothing was attributed to you on that front. I was responding to certain attitudes held by people regarding gays.

Where did I say homosexuality is in-line with Gurmat? I never even suggested such a thing! What an outrageous thing to suggest.

The entire argument is Gays (even if they are sikhs ) don't want Anand Karaj in Gurdwara . You can keep your religious customs . We aren't changing them .

But gays don't want someone to poke their nose when they have a secular marriage with their same sex partner

[Sukhmanii 18]

As Sikhs we are not to persecute homosexuals or think of them any less as humans but to go as far as saying that their lifestyle in perfectly okay with Gurmat is ludicrous. If we as Sikhs accept homosexuality as being okay with Gurmat then where do we draw the line? is pedophilia, necrophilia and incest also acceptable to Gurmat according to you?

Are you honestly comparing homesexuality to pedophilia and necrophilia? Wow :blink2:

[singher23 151]

^ yeah those things aren't related...

[Jonny101 4,496]

Are you honestly comparing homesexuality to pedophilia and necrophilia? Wow :blink2:

Yes I am. These are all considered paraphilias.

[Sukhmanii 18]

Yes I am. These are all considered paraphilias.

No. Clearly the desire to do things with children or dead people is different to the homosexual attraction to the same gender. Paraphilia is characterised by an arousal to:

1. Non-human objects
   
2. The suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner
   
3. Children
   
4. Non-consenting persons
   

Homosexuality was considered a paraphilia until 1973, but it no longer is.

[Jonny101 4,496]

No. Clearly the desire to do things with children or dead people is different to the homosexual attraction to the same gender. Paraphilia is characterised by an arousal to:

1. Non-human objects
   
2. The suffering or humiliation of oneself or one's partner
   
3. Children
   
4. Non-consenting persons
   

Homosexuality was considered a paraphilia until 1973, but it no longer is.

Due to political correctness of the modern world homosexuality was taken out of the lists of paraphilias in the early 70s because homosexuality began to be widely accepted by the mainstream American society. This is a case of science being influenced by political correctness. Homosexuality is a sexual deviation no doubt. Some sexual deviations like padophilia, necrophilia are banned while some like homosexuality are allowed.

For argument sake, let us say for example that two consenting adults(same sex) want to have a sexual relation with each other, according to you it is okay. Does that mean that incest should also be approved? if a brother-sister, father-daughter, mother-son want to have sexual relations with each other just as long as they are adults is that okay? if not then why is homosexuality okay for you while incest is not?

Gurmat does not agree with everything modern American society does. Ask any Sikh scholar or Mahapursh, no one will agree with homosexuality as being inline with Gurmat. Marriage in Sikh tradition is only between man and woman, not man-man, woman-woman, human-animal, elderly-child, brother-sister etc.