Punjab's Progress At An All Time Low

[UKLondonSikh]

Most of my relatives in Punjab have not just single degrees, but what they call double and triple degrees, i.e they did a degree...couldn't find a job and so did another degree etc. Top of my head....I honestly can't name a single relative of mine that has ever managed to find a job in Punjab.

>>WLS Ji that truly is sad if multiple degree holders can't get jobs. But unemployment is a reality all over the world and I'm sure you agree that the poorer non-landholding Sikhs suffer from even greater degrees of unemployment. For your family folk, at least they have the potential of selling some land to start a business or perhaps emigrate to Canada, Australia or New Zealand in that order. Sadly, for others, even those options are not available as 90% of the historically oppressed sections of our Panth don't even gain matriculation certificates and well its common knowledge who owns most of the landholdings in Punjab.

The rural Sikh, no matter how highly educated he or she is, has more chance of hitting the jackpot in the national lottery than landing a job in Punjab.

>>Whilst it's true that finding a job is not easy in Punjab, most Sikhs in Punjab do actually have jobs ... though I realise you were joking in statistical terms

They can't get a job in the private sector because the urban classes that control industry restrict the jobs to their own kind.

>>Could that perhaps have something to do with a rotten ideology called caste? Do you therefore now accept that anyone who proudly proclaims their caste can hardly be in line with Sikhi?

They can't get a job in the public sector because those jobs are reserved thru quotas for the 'backward classes'.

>>Whilst reservation is a reality WLS, do you concede that in fact there are more landholding Sikhs in public sector jobs above peon level than those from "backward classes"? For example, it's well known that though there are reserved seats for MLA's and in the police ... everyone pretty much knows which section of the community Badal, Amrinder Singh, KPS Gill, KS Brar all hail from.

The main blame for Punjab's woes lies with the dirty Badal family, but the central government in Delhi shares the blame.

>>I would say 99% of the blame lies with Indira+Rajiv historically, though the Badals and the main bureaucrats in India are hardly concerned at how Punjab should extricate itself from the hell Indira left behind ... such as a decimated industrial base ... which leaves the residual unemployment which causes so much problems. Naaray for Khalistan only ensure that MNC's choose Haryana over Punjab each and every time.

>>Sadly now we ourselves have taken on Indira's anti-Sikh baton and use it against ourselves.

Just to give one example of how the centre deliberately keeps Punjab down, lets look at the issue of aviation. In every other state in India, the central government in Delhi, have been giving financial incentives and help in establishing and building regional airports with global links to improve business infrastructure. The only exception to this official Indian policy is Punjab. Every major international airline that has pulled the plug on its Amritsar service in the last decade has said the reason was because the Indian government were deliberately discouraging them from flying to Punjab by making it too expensive to do so. This is in stark contrast to what is happening in other states such as Gujarat where Airlines have been encouraged to fly there with financial sweetners and incentives so that Gujarat businesses can improve their global reach.

>>From what I've read, I wholeheartedly agree with you on this. But this is lower level bureacracy that senior Sikh politicians should be able to overcome if they persist. Not least because the BJP's Hindu votebase in Amritsar wants the resumption of more flights asap too.

Punjab, has the soil and climate for some of the world's most valuable commodities at the moment. Rape seed is at an all time high.....flowers yield high profits....chillis and other organic products would give high profits. But for this to be the case the indian government know those agricultarists in Punjab need good international links from Punjab . Instead, the govt mandis instruct the farmers to grow crops such as rice that need 20 or 30 times more water than other crops. Thats total madness in a state where the water table is dangerously low. But everything is designed to make it hard for the farmer to not only make his own contracts with the international community but be able to deliver on those contracts. I'll tell you right now, my family have tried several times to diversify into the flower market. I even have, in the past, had meetings with major buyers from UK supermarkets. If i was a gujarati farmer in gujarat it would be happy days right now. Within hours my fresh flowers would be on a plane and within a few more hours on the shelves in wall mart. As a Punjabi farmer though, my flowers would be rotten and dead by the time they reached a western supermarket several days later.

>>I have to say I agree that enemies of the Panth are engaged in sabotage of our interests like this. But if we stay in Chardi Kala, remember that the hugely successful Patels in India are comprised of even poorer agriculturalists who have diversified big time into business and professions (as interestingly have Arains) then we can find solutions to overcome our enemies. As Dal Singh said ... the faster agriculture is restricted to those with meaningful landholdings and we diversify away from agriculture (as our enemies do not wish to see us do) ... the greater economic progress we can make as a Qaum.

Punjab is failing because Punjab is an enslaved state of a hostile dirty foreign power : The Indians.

>>The thing is making out Dr Manmohan Singh to be the Chief Slavemaster of the Sikhs is rather weak as far as reality stands.

^ No offence but you wouldn't know a farm if one jumped up and bit you on the bottom.

You know as much about the realities of rural Punjab as a Swiss clock maker. However, despite the pointless ill-informed nonsense of it, i do respect your right to at least have a go. The truth is you simply will not tolerate anything said against your beloved mother India. Never have done.....Never will do. And why would you ? You, unlike the majority of us Sikhs here, have family, heritage and home from amongst them . If we sikhs from rural backgrounds are not lecturing about the dynamics about something we know nothing about, i.e urban industry....what makes Dal Singh think he can lecture about rural agriculture ?

>>WLS you do a dis-service to all individuals from a rural background who have made inroads into urban industry. But you reinforce the point, yet again, that castes or tribes which de facto restrict folks to a certain life outcome are a totally immoral concept utterly against the principles of Sikhi. The jaath-paath believing brigade are the ones most guilty of not daring to abandon their links to India+Pakistan as you well knpw. If they don't stick up for their caste-mad friends on side of the border, they inevitably do for the other.

its a bit like recieving a lecture about Punjab from a Norwegian fisherman, i.e like a broken pencil.......i.e Pointless. There are also other issues such as crop rotation or yields to consider here. Where the money is etc. Right now, at this very moment, farmers in areas such as Gujarat are artificialy emulating the natural climate and soil of Punjab to grow things such as flowers and selling directly to western wholesalers. That business should be natural to Punjab. It isn't for no reason other than the fact that India has put other states at an advantage re; transport infrastructure, and Punjab at a distinct disadvantage. But you're up to your old tricks Dal Singh. You're a one trick pony.

You say the problem is that the rural sikhs don't get educated. You get told that the rural sikhs do in fact get them themselves degrees, masters, double degrees and triple degrees but still can't find a job. And yet your conclusion is that the rural Sikh has a victim mentality. :omg:

>>What's worrying WLS is that you genuinely seem to think that rural landholding Sikhs are worse off than the poorer sections of the community. It's very similar to how white Americans think because affirmative action benefits a few African Americans ... that suddenly they are doomed ones who are discriminated against the most. You seem to believe that hype that the RSS push that all of Punjab's doctors are poor Dalits who got 10% in their exams. Sikhs from a rural landholding background are enterprising people and economically they have greater collective economic power than even the urban classes, in Punjab they control both Congress and the SAD, they are not under-represented in the professions or universities or in employment and they comprise the majority of MP's, MLA's, Police etc plus they own 90% of Punjab's land (which does not come cheap). Sikhs never had a victim mentality in the face of the greatest adversities in the past. Now when the Prime Minister of India is a Sikh, the Head of the Army is a Sikh, the chief Economic Planner is a Sikh, the UN representative is a Sikh as are the majority of MLA's, MP's and Police in Punjab ... it's almost ludicrous to claim that Sikhs are simply oppressed slaves as you often like to proclaim.

You get told that the rural sikhs stand a slim to none chance of getting a job in the private sector because the urban classes give the jobs to their own kind and your response is that the rural sikh has a victim mentality :stupidme:

>>Rural landowning Sikhs do work in the private sector WLS. They comprise 33% of the Punjab populace, as do Dalits ... but guess which section of the community is most under-represented in the private sector? Clue ... 2% of them own land and they are historically non-urban.

You get told that the rural sikh, no matter how great his education, cannot get a job in the public sector because the jobs are reserved through govt quotas for the so called 'backward classes', and your conslusion is that its the rural sikh's fault for having a 'victim mentality'. :wow:

>>By your faulty logic WLS, you'd imply that white folk can't get a job in the UK due to the race relations act etc. Everyone has sympathy for poor farmers. Everyone has sympathy for your relatives. But to extrapolate things in such a skewed manner as to imply that it's only rural landowning Sikhs that have it hard in Punjab is really ridiculous.

Nah, its all getting silly mate. If there's a discussion about the road system in Bombay I'll listen to what you have to say because you'll be in your element. Here, you're simply doing what you always do as a habit : Deflect blame from your beloved India and pin it on the 'evil pendu rural Sikh' , the architect of all that is wrong in Punjab......apparently.

>>By painting Dal Singh as being solely against the evil caste-espousing section of rural Sikhs you do a great dis-service to his valid points and in the process lessen the impact of certain valid points you also made re aviation etc. Everyone knows that united we stand and divided we fall. So do you now openly accept that any naive chap who declares his caste openly with pride is playing right into the hands of "mother India" and her corrupt bureaucrats? They want you to see the whole thing as urban/rural landowning/rural non-landowning ... that way they play everyone off against each other ... and becuase we're asleep to their manipulation, we fall for it.

[singh135]

So fill us in. What is stopping Sikhs making biscuits in the Panjab and selling them? I'm genuinely interested to hear this.

My understanding is the Badal government has a fixed tariff for purchasing agricultural products. No free market. No competitors. Poor infrastructure investment means its impossible to transfer products to nearby possible buyers let alone export. Poor cargo flights from Amritsar airport with extortionate prices. Big bribes if exporting via Delhi airport.

[dalsingh101]

My understanding is the Badal government has a fixed tariff for purchasing agricultural products. No free market. No competitors. Poor infrastructure investment means its impossible to transfer products to nearby possible buyers let alone export. Poor cargo flights from Amritsar airport with extortionate prices. Big bribes if exporting via Delhi airport.

Oh, okay, so the 'maharajah' of pendu Sikhs is responsible for this?

Like I said, we need to look closer to home for the sources of many of our problems and break away from this 'denial' victim mentality that fails to acknowledge how our own people play a BIG part in the mess.

[singh135]

Oh, okay, so the 'maharajah' of pendu Sikhs is responsible for this?

Like I said, we need to look closer to home for the sources of many of our problems and break away from this 'denial' victim mentality that fails to acknowledge how our own people play a BIG part in the mess.

My friend, can you please stop repeating like a parrot. It sounds like a broken record regarding 'denial', 'denial', 'denial'. Could it infact be that YOU are the one in denial regarding the reality of the situation instead of everyone argueing against you?!

It's only when we open our eyes that we can move forward. If you want to find solutions, that's great. But these solutions need to understand the problem. Helping people at a grassroots level although noble won't achieve anything if you don't deal with the root problem which is much higher up!

Focus you energy in the right direction bro.

Bhul chuk Maaf.

Fateh!

[proactive]

Oh, okay, so the 'maharajah' of pendu Sikhs is responsible for this?

Like I said, we need to look closer to home for the sources of many of our problems and break away from this 'denial' victim mentality that fails to acknowledge how our own people play a BIG part in the mess.

You are quick to blame the Badals and hence the victim mentality but the fact is that the MSP (minimum support price) is set by the Central govt! That's why around April-May there is great deal of newspaper reports of Badal or his son demanding an increase in the MSP. The Punjabi farmer cannot sell his foodstuffs to anyone but the central govt agencies through the artiyas.

[dalsingh101]

So hang on, Panjabis (especially the numerically dominant farmers) are that useless that they can't even vote someone who is good for Panjab and its economy in?

hhhmmmm......

[dalsingh101]

You are quick to blame the Badals and hence the victim mentality but the fact is that the MSP (minimum support price) is set by the Central govt! That's why around April-May there is great deal of newspaper reports of Badal or his son demanding an increase in the MSP. The Punjabi farmer cannot sell his foodstuffs to anyone but the central govt agencies through the artiyas.

So these MSP, are they set for every single thing a farmer can grow or do they only apply to specific crops?

[Singh559]

The reason everyone in pinds votes Badal isn't because they are intelligent or not, he is better for the average farmer and some of you know my stance on Badal and is the lesser of two evils (congress). PPP had a chance this time but they made only one seat.

The blame does lie in the people, but it's solely for not being proactive to change the system but who can blame them really. We're all to blame, even us sitting abroad.

[dalsingh101]

Look, even if it wasn't the 'politics', the way landholdings have to be divided into smaller pieces and passed on to sons (say if you have 3) in itself would case problems with constant dwindling over generations. So this focus on government bogeymen as the sole source of Panjab's problems is a red herring.

Our economy is way too narrow for us to be in anything but a mess. It needs to be MUCH wider in scope. It will take creativity to develop this.

Sadly most people right now seem content to generally continue doing as has always been done.

[10th regiment]

very interesting debate.

if the central government controls all budgets and allocates money to the different states based on population rather than actual tax contributions/gdp of those different states to the central budget then even if the people of a particular state wanted to diversify they couldnt if the central gov didnt want them to

in punjabs case it is simple. why would a central gov want the farmers of that state to diversify away from food products that feed the entire nation at a below market price to flowers so they can export etc

when the market(s) (demand) for food products is/are controlled by the government and you cant export your surplus you are in trouble

this is not something which is restricted to india by the way. quite a common problem around the world.