Dhunda Does It Again Beadbi Of Sri Dasam Granth

[Only five]

@ onlyfive Paji

Not a single question of mine is being answered. And you expect me to answer your base less questions? Get real here, i was not born yesterday. If you want to discuss Bachittar Natak then first tell me what Bachittar Natak means. Then we can move forward and see if you actually understand the latter Shabads in Bachittar Natak. If you honestly wanted to learn the truth about Dasam Bani you would not hide. From your post it is visible you want to spread your manmat here and nothing more.

Also from you so called caste comments it is clear you have not read Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Have any of the Bhagats said there caste in Gurbani? You are so against Sri Charitorpakhyan and your ignorance shows very clearly that if i present one shabad from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, you would reject it because your mind is not able to grasp the message and is stuck on what you can't get past.

So before we go any further answer my simple questions. First one is up in this post and here is the next one, which i already asked and you ignored out of your own self interest.

Are devta, devis, demons, Jamdhoot real according to Gurmat?

[UKLondonSikh]

Only5 = Not a single question of mine is being answered.

UK = Paji that was because you avoided answering all of the fundamental questions posed in the thread prior to that.

Only5 = And you expect me to answer your base less questions? Get real here, i was not born yesterday.

UK = Ditto Paji :-) Why would i bother investing my time answering vague questions, which seek to deflect the matter away from those that defend the clearly anti-Sikhi material in sections of today's so-called DG? Hence, I thought I'd ask you again before answering in detail :-) None of us were exactly born yesterday, were we? :-)

Only5 = If you want to discuss Bachittar Natak then first tell me what Bachittar Natak means. Then we can move forward and see if you actually understand the latter Shabads in Bachittar Natak.

UK = If i'm wrong in thinking it means "divine play" then please feel free to educate me. But I do feel Natak in its base sense is an appropriate description for those elements which were not authored by Dasme PaathShah. You seriously expect us to believe Guru Sahib who had no caste (yes you read that right) ... went on to broadcast a false genealogy ... that's pure Beadbi of our Guru by yourself Paji and you fundamentally must realise that!?

Only5 = If you honestly wanted to learn the truth about Dasam Bani you would not hide.

UK = Well, since I've come out of hiding now, I hope you do the decent thing now Paji and answer the questions posed in the thread that you've consistently dodged up until now?

Only5 = From your post it is visible you want to spread your manmat here and nothing more.

UK = Paji, what bigger manmat can there be than accepting the Dusht Daman, Durga Mata, Raam Chander genealogy + Charitropakhiyan stories as pure Gurbani?

Only5 = Also from you so called caste comments it is clear you have not read Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj. Have any of the Bhagats said there caste in Gurbani?

UK = I have in fact Paji, albeit not enough ... but your point regarding the Bhagats mentions hold no validity whatsoever ... there is a difference between humbly accepting the occupations the Bhagats were engaged in when Hindu+Muslim society despised the very same ... and claiming to be descended from the most elite lineage in Hindu culture + society. If you don't see that and it's contradiction to the whole ethos of Vasakhi 1699 and the birth of the Khalsa Panth then I feel you are not being honest to yourself. You really might as well as join the hordes that ignore Sri Anandpur Sahib in preference of Sri Hemkunt Sahib and takes some photo's of Maa Durga statues while you're at it ... because according to you, if Sant Ji said it's true ... then it must be true ... regardless of the lifetime evidence of Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj that we have and the birth of the Khalsa Panth.

Only5 = You are so against Sri Charitorpakhyan

UK = Paji, every Sikh ought to be because the tales simply weren't written by Dashmesh Pithah! Or are you basically saying that Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is too limited and doesn't contain all the answers needed? That in the midst of fighting tyranny, oppression and a society for Sarbat Da Bhala ... Guru Sahib made the time to write that? LoL! Paji you may convince a few of such pure anti-Gurmat ideology ... but sooner or later the secret will be out and then people will ask why did these pro-100% of today's so-called DG folks accept and promote such anti-Sikhi, anti-Gurmat and anti-Amritdhari material for so long? And what was their hidden agenda in maligning Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj and deflecting focus away from the birth of the Khalsa Panth? Or was it just blind faith as most suspect.

Only5 = and your ignorance shows very clearly that if i present one shabad from Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj, you would reject it because your mind is not able to grasp the message and is stuck on what you can't get past.

UK = I'm a Sikh + I will never reject a single letter of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj because I have read Guru Sahib and I firmly believe in everything (though I daresay me and you might interpret certain things differently). What I won't do is believe in those aspects of today's so-called DG that stand in contradiction of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj. Like I said the onus is on you to justify each and every anti-Sikh element to today's so-called DG. Please explain in detail the whole story about Dusht Daman, Durga Mata, all the Charitropakhiyan stories and justify why Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj would have (in your opinion) broadcasted to the whole world the whole Raam Chander genealogy? I respect your devotion a lot but frankly it's disappointing that you can't plainly see which forces stood to gain from the Raam Chander genealogy and the Dusht Daman story gaining wider acceptance. Blind faith simply isn't good enough Paji. You're not answerable to your Sant Ji. We as Sikhs are answerable to ParmAathma.

Only5 = So before we go any further answer my simple questions.

UK = Ditto i've answered now ... so I hope will you do the courtesy of answering the points addressed to you in full detail?

Only5 = First one is up in this post and here is the next one, which i already asked and you ignored out of your own self interest.

Only5 = Are devta, devis, demons, Jamdhoot real according to Gurmat?

UK = My interpretation is that they have relavance in a metaphoric sense but not much more beyond that.

UK = Paji, look at it like this if you can provide a detailed and lengthy breakdown answering the main questions posed in the thread against the lack of authenticity corroborating sections of today's so-called DG ... then you could save the whole forum from falling into the so-called "manmat" of rejecting the false Dusht Daman + Durga Mata concept, rejecting the fake Raam Chander genealogy and you could even convince them of why the Charitropakhiyan stories were so necassary to write during Aurangzeb's rule when Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj already gave us all the protection we need.

UK = Perhaps you might even care to refute what Dhunda Sahib says on the video line by line?

----------------------------------------

@ onlyfive Paji

would you perhaps care to explain and justify the critical issues mentioned below in reference to certain elements of DG+SG which are in dispute:

KhalistaniGunMan = guru Nanak devji exposes suryavanshi lineage?

UK = LoL, KGM Paji do you actually seriously believe human beings are descended from the Hindu Devta - the Sun God (Surya) and his Hindu Goddess wives Saranya and Chhaya!? Good luck believing in your Suraj Devta!

KhalistaniGunMan = yet sri guru gobind singh ji claims lineage from sri raam chander ji himself in his divine bani

UK = So Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj who took Amrit from the Punj Piare ... and who emphasised ke "manas ki jaath sabhe ek pech'chaano" ... and dedicated his whole life to overturning tyranny, discrimination, the wretched caste system etc, etc and who the whole Panth knows was the Paragon of Nimrata and Humility ... suddenly out of nowhere decides to (allegedly) broadcast to the whole world that the Hindu's Avatar (or "God in Human Form") Ram Chander is his divine ancestor ... and you're so gullible that you cannot see this is a blatant interjection by anti-Sikh pro-caste forces aligned with the Mughals in order to malign Sikhi ... study Vasakhi 1699 rather than Dusht Daman or Durga or Charitropakhiyan is all i can say.

• Is Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's life between the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's shaheedi and the GurGaddi passing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj more important or relavant ... or the alternative Dusht Daman + Charitropakhiyan type narrations?
  

• Which historical event is more important to what Sikhi is about fundamentally ... the birth of the Khalsa Panth at Sri Anandpur Sahib ... or the supposed slaying of demons by Dusht Daman in (allegedly) Uttarakhand as well as stories which are fairly common in bookshops?
  

Like I said onlyfive Paji, i think the emphasis is on you to prove why those elements which have been highighted as controversial are in your opinion allegedly authored by Guru Sahib!!! In fact if you can give me a line by line breakdown and justification of the Dusht Daman, Durga Mata, Raam Chander genealogy and Charitropakhiyan stories I’d be most obliged. Because I sincerely believe that no Sikh can adequately justify such blatantly anti-Gurmat material and I don't think you're going to manage it! Please bear in mind Paji that those parts which do not contradict Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj are not in dispute, so it is the aforementioned adulteration that is the issue at hand.

[mrsingh12]

1. can you please provide proof that Bachittar Natak or Chartiropakyan is not written by the great 10th master

2. I used to like Dhunda as a kathakaar but not now. You seem to hold the fake prof in high regard? This guy has no respect for the writings of the Sikh prophets. See Jaap Sahib, the most pro-gurmat writing of all in DG (they all are) where the mool mantar is expanded upon where never seen before. However, look at Dhunda in this video telling lies and openly abusing (physically with a stick and verbally) the writings of the 10th master:

Using Dhunda in any respectful way is utter nonsense. Do you agree with me? Do you believe Jaap Sahib is pro-gurmat. WHY DO ANTI DG's LIKE TO USE PROF. SAHIB SINGH AS A REFERENCE FOR THE MEANINGS OF GURBANI, YET FORGETTING THAT PROF. SAHIB SINGH WROTE A WHOLE TEEKA ON JAAP SAHIB, CAN YOU EXPLAIN? Hypocrites

3. People have read Dasam Granth for sure yes. Reading is doing a quick search of "lust, alcohol, prostitutes" as key words in Sikhitothemax and finding that Dasam Granth has these words in it. Santhiya is a very different ball game. Santhiya is a) learning how to pronounce DG in the right way b) learning the meanings of it using the various teeka written by scholars. Again, simple question, has Ghagga/Thailand Wala/Jachak/Ragi Darshan or any anti-DG had santhiya of DG? Yes or no?

4. Can you please provide proof that during the head of the Panjab Crisis, DDT starting preaching about DG? What a lie. Do you accept the status of Sri Maan Singh Sahib Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa as one of the greatest warriors in Sikh history? Sant Ji did a katha of whole Bachittar Natak? I am pretty sure he didn't praise durga/dusht daman or any other dodgy hindu god you keep putting in your posts

5. Finally, let me just sum up my positions:

a) I believe DG in it's current form is as written by Sahib-e-Kamaal Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

b) I do not believe in putting DG on equal status as the great, wisest 11th master, Dhan Dhan Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

c) I do not believe DG promotes hindu gods/hindu ideology, in fact it batters hinduism and islam concepts

d) I do not believe anti-DG people hold any credibility as they have not achieved any santhiya or teaching of DG from anyone

e) I believe DG is in line with Gurmat.

f) I do not believe DG should be compared with the great, ruling 11th master as it's purpose is quite different to that of our current Satguru

[UKLondonSikh]

12 = can you please provide proof that Bachittar Natak or Chartiropakyan is not written by the great 10th master

UK = The most evident proof to refute the whole fake genealogy ascribed to Guru Sahib as having been descended from the Hindu God in Human Form (Ram Chander) is provided by the birth of the Khalsa Panth at Sri Anandpur Sahib and Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's lifetime which they dedicated to eradicating false pride in one's background. Furthermore, please provide proof for your allegation of Dusht Daman which ties into de facto Durga Mata worship. Please provide me your proof of who the Charitropakhiyan stories were written by. In terms of Guru Sahib dedicating their whole life towards fighting daily for Sarbat da Bhala and overcoming the bitter tyranny and slavery of Mughal oppression as well as the battles involved and the level of paatt Guru Sahib did daily ... you mean to say you honestly believe that Guru Sahib made the spare time to author the Charitropakhiyan stories because according to you Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj is deficient in advising us on how to avoid paap?

12 = I used to like Dhunda as a kathakaar but not now. You seem to hold the fake prof in high regard? This guy has no respect for the writings of the Sikh prophets. See Jaap Sahib, the most pro-gurmat writing of all in DG (they all are) where the mool mantar is expanded upon where never seen before. However, look at Dhunda in this video telling lies and openly abusing (physically with a stick and verbally) the writings of the 10th master:

UK = Paji, i think it's a weak form of argument to try puncture Dhunda Sahib and PDS if you simply can't refute the thrust of their allegations relating to Dusht Daman + Durga Mata, the Ram Chander genealogy as well as the Charitropkhiyan stories. I don't eat meat myself so you can see that I don't agree with PDS on everything. As for youtube, don't believe everything you see on there as you'll probably end up believing Indira was a Sant!

12 = Using Dhunda in any respectful way is utter nonsense. Do you agree with me?

UK = I tell you what Paji if you can refute the short clip of Dhunda Sahib at the start of this thread point by point, then you never know I might look at things differently. I haven't raised Jaap Sahib as an issue, so like I said don't assume I agree with PDS on everything :-)

12 = People have read Dasam Granth for sure yes. Reading is doing a quick search of "lust, alcohol, prostitutes" as key words in Sikhitothemax and finding that Dasam Granth has these words in it. Santhiya is a very different ball game. Santhiya is a) learning how to pronounce DG in the right way b) learning the meanings of it using the various teeka written by scholars. Again, simple question, has Ghagga/Thailand Wala/Jachak/Ragi Darshan or any anti-DG had santhiya of DG? Yes or no?

UK = Santhiya point is for them to answer. But your point is akin to saying that because the holy books of Christianity and Islam condone Slavery ... whilst Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj condemns slavery as utterly immoral ... that you need years of scholarship of the Bible+Quran before you can reject a simple clear cut issue like Slavery. Similarly the Dusht Daman+Durga Mata, Ram Chander genealogy and Charitropakhiyan stories are pretty explicit.

12 = Can you please provide proof that during the head of the Panjab Crisis, DDT starting preaching about DG? What a lie.

UK = Are you denying that DDT repeatedly said between 1977-1984 that anyone who denies aspects of Bachittar Natak are "atheists" and "bemukh"?

12 = Do you accept the status of Sri Maan Singh Sahib Sant Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa as one of the greatest warriors in Sikh history?

UK = No, for me our Guru's are first and foremost and then Banda Singh Bahadur and Sardar Hari Singh Nalwa feature most prominently as the embodiment of True Warriors.

12 = Sant Ji did a katha of whole Bachittar Natak? I am pretty sure he didn't praise durga/dusht daman or any other dodgy hindu god you keep putting in your posts

UK = By merely accepting the Dusht Daman + Durga Mata lie, that in of itself subliminally praises Durga Mata whether you see that or not. Ask yourself why are the Durga Pujari's of the RSS so much in support of Bachittar Natak and the whole associatied genealogy lie which it perpetuates? Do you not see Paji that the RSS are overjoyed at Sikhs buying into the false concept of Guru Sahib claiming to be descended from the Hindu God in Human Form Ram Chander. I really request you as a fellow Sikh brother to ask yourself that deeply and privately even if you don't acknowledge it openly thereafter.

12 = Finally, let me just sum up my positions:

12 = I believe DG in it's current form is as written by Sahib-e-Kamaal Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj

UK = Agreed for those parts of DG which resonate with Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj ... but not the parts written by anti-Sikh forces relating, for example, to Dusht Daman + Goddess Durga, the Hindu God genealogy from Ram Chander and the Charitropakhiyan stories.

12 = I do not believe in putting DG on equal status as the great, wisest 11th master, Dhan Dhan Satguru Sahib Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji

UK = Totally agreed Paji. Sikhs have 1 Guru (not two) so perhaps you will join in condemnation of practices that are engaged in by today's so-called DDT and at Bidar.

12 = I do not believe DG promotes hindu gods/hindu ideology, in fact it batters hinduism and islam concepts

UK = Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj exposes Hinduism+Islam for exactly what they are. Today's so-called DG in the controversial places mentioned clearly promotes Hindu Gods - there is simply no getting away from that. The Dusht Daman + Durga Mata link is pretty irrefutable my friend. Who do you think the Ram Chander genealogy de facto praises - yes you guessed it - it's a Hindu God in human form. That's why the best way to describe it today is the "so-called" DG.

12 = I do not believe anti-DG people hold any credibility as they have not achieved any santhiya or teaching of DG from anyone

UK = Fair point (in that you're perfectly entitled to think that) but as you know yourself that's not really the main issue of contention.

12 = I believe DG is in line with Gurmat.

UK = If you believe the Dusht Daman + Durga Mata stuff, the whole Ram Chander genealogy and the Charitropakhiyan stories are in line with Gurmat then I'm totally flabbergasted!

12 = I do not believe DG should be compared with the great, ruling 11th master as it's purpose is quite different to that of our current Satguru

UK = Good, perhaps you will add your voice to the chorus of those who oppose parallel parkash in whatever form that might be. The bottom line of contention boils down to the following points which have really gone unanswered throughout the debate:

----------------

Would you perhaps care to explain and justify the critical issues mentioned below in reference to certain elements of DG+SG which are in dispute:

KhalistaniGunMan = guru Nanak devji exposes suryavanshi lineage?

UK = LoL, KGM Paji do you actually seriously believe human beings are descended from the Hindu Devta - the Sun God (Surya) and his Hindu Goddess wives Saranya and Chhaya!? Good luck believing in your Suraj Devta!

KhalistaniGunMan = yet sri guru gobind singh ji claims lineage from sri raam chander ji himself in his divine bani

UK = So Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj who took Amrit from the Punj Piare ... and who emphasised ke "manas ki jaath sabhe ek pech'chaano" ... and dedicated his whole life to overturning tyranny, discrimination, the wretched caste system etc, etc and who the whole Panth knows was the Paragon of Nimrata and Humility ... suddenly out of nowhere decides to (allegedly) broadcast to the whole world that the Hindu's Avatar (or "God in Human Form") Ram Chander is his divine ancestor ... and you're so gullible that you cannot see this is a blatant interjection by anti-Sikh pro-caste forces aligned with the Mughals in order to malign Sikhi ... study Vasakhi 1699 rather than Dusht Daman or Durga or Charitropakhiyan is all i can say.

• Is Dhan Dhan Guru Gobind Singh Ji Maharaj's life between the time of Guru Tegh Bahadur Ji's shaheedi and the GurGaddi passing to Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj more important or relavant ... or the alternative Dusht Daman + Charitropakhiyan type narrations?
  

• Which historical event is more important to what Sikhi is about fundamentally ... the birth of the Khalsa Panth at Sri Anandpur Sahib ... or the supposed slaying of demons by Dusht Daman in (allegedly) Uttarakhand as well as stories which are fairly common in bookshops?
  

Like I said, i think the emphasis is on you to prove why those elements which have been highighted as controversial are in your opinion allegedly authored by Guru Sahib!!! In fact if you can give me a line by line breakdown and justification of the Dusht Daman, Durga Mata, Raam Chander genealogy and Charitropakhiyan stories I’d be most obliged. Because I sincerely believe that no Sikh can adequately justify such blatantly anti-Gurmat material and I don't think you're going to manage it! Please bear in mind Paji that those parts which do not contradict Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji Maharaj are not in dispute, so it is the aforementioned adulteration that is the issue at hand.

[Only five]

UK = My interpretation is that they have relavance in a metaphoric sense but not much more beyond that.

By metaphor (the stories of devis and devta are just their to show a teaching) you mean myth? Also do you think the story of Bhagat Prahlaad ji Maharaj being saved by Narsingh (half man and half lion) is a myth? Did Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj come as half man and half lion to this earth to save Bhagat ji?

Your questions are loaded, where a ignorant person has to agree with you no matter what. So before i start answering your questions i need pull your judgement away, which i am doing by asking you the top questions.

[GuptUnknown]

Veerji, you are argueing with a nastik, possibily an agent. Just look at their views of Sant Jarnail Singh ji earlier, as for Dhunda he needs to get his, there is some info that most of Sangat does not know about him. Uklondonsikh really doesn't know what they are talking about, better to leave them in their own fantasy land.

[Only five]

Veerji, you are argueing with a nastik, possibily an agent. Just look at their views of Sant Jarnail Singh ji earlier, as for Dhunda he needs to get his, there is some info that most of Sangat does not know about him. Uklondonsikh really doesn't know what they are talking about, better to leave them in their own fantasy land.

Singh I appreciate your concern and telling me what uklondonsikh said about Sant ji, I did not see that in his post. However consider this as good execrise for those who want to learn how to debunk these nastiks theories. uklondonsikh refuses to put up Dasam Bani because he knows in a split second the Bani can be explained and Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj shabad can be presented to show clear agreement on Dasam Bani Shabad. We have nothing to hide, like these nastiks do (asked him to present Dasam Bani shabads that don't algin with Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and hes running the 8 mile). Dasam Bani is there for everyone to listen to and read. Even if one Sikh in the world learns how to debunk these nastiks bullets with no fire power, then we have gained and they have lost yet again in the same debate. uklondonsikh is trying to play a chess match with checker pieces. The more these nastiks are exposed with contentment, hulimity, and contemplation, where we stand on Truth. Then they can keep running around like a chicken without a head or drop there egotistical ways and bow to Dasam Bani with their head and mind.

But i do get your point of don't agrue with nastiks. :biggrin2:

[mrsingh12]

1. What allegation have I made that I need to provide proof for. Can you show me proof that the word's "Dusht Daman" are written in Sri Dasam Granth. I DO NOT believe in Durga worship in fact it is revolting. My point is that DG condemns hinduism in amazing ways, so how could it be pro-Durga? I

2. Do you believe Jaap Sahib is one of the "legitimate" writings of DG. You keep saying you agree with parts which are in line with Gurmat. Either you are saying this without knowing which parts of DG are pro-Gurmat or why else are you scared to tell me which bani of DG do you believe is acceptable to the panth? Is Jaap Sahib pro-Gurmat?

3. If the answer to two is yes, how do you possible think I can hold someone in credible esteem (Dhunda) when that person is seen committing beadbi by hiiting bani with a stick and abusing bani as seen in video/ Simple answers please rather than pasting a paragraph which goes around everywhere

3. Dhunda told lies in his video. He said that DG kirtan can not be done as written in Rehit Maryada. The Maryada says "writings of the 10 prophets of Sikhism" can be sung in the hazoori of the 11th prophet. Why did he tell a lie? What giaan did Dhunda show in that video?

4. Show me prove that DDT spoke out against DG haters. Show me one quote and I will say sorry, no point just doing a Jeonwala and stating so-called facts with no evidence. Please see in the video at 34.25

hahahaha

5. You dont even hold Singh Sahib Baba Bhindranwale in high esteem, even heretic Ragi Darshan/Ghagga/Jeonwala do? Your position is a bit like fingers in a lot of pies, not consistent. Say what you like about Sant Bhindranwale as a leader or politician or whatever, but when it comes to the giaan of Gurmat and Gurbani and Sikh history, Sant Ji was levels above the moorakh of today.

6. I will fully admit. I have not had santhiya/havent read all of/haven't been taught meanings of 95% of DG. I am not in a position to say it is anti-Gurmat, as I have no proof that it is. I am the same as everybody in that everyone's first perception of DG is that it is the writing of the great 10th master. I dont not see any Durga/Shiva/Lakshmi/Rama/Sita/Vishnu/Ganesh or whoever you are coming out with given any importance in SDG. I see praise of Akaal Purakh.

I HAVE BEEN HONEST, NOW YOUR TURN ANSWER THE FOLLOWING TWO QUESTIONS:

a) Is Jaap Sahib pro-gurmat?

b) Which bani do you believe do be legitimate in DG? Name all the banis that you have personally done path of if you can please?

[Jonny101]

Singh I appreciate your concern and telling me what uklondonsikh said about Sant ji, I did not see that in his post. However consider this as good execrise for those who want to learn how to debunk these nastiks theories. uklondonsikh refuses to put up Dasam Bani because he knows in a split second the Bani can be explained and Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj shabad can be presented to show clear agreement on Dasam Bani Shabad. We have nothing to hide, like these nastiks do (asked him to present Dasam Bani shabads that don't algin with Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj and hes running the 8 mile). Dasam Bani is there for everyone to listen to and read. Even if one Sikh in the world learns how to debunk these nastiks bullets with no fire power, then we have gained and they have lost yet again in the same debate. uklondonsikh is trying to play a chess match with checker pieces. The more these nastiks are exposed with contentment, hulimity, and contemplation, where we stand on Truth. Then they can keep running around like a chicken without a head or drop there egotistical ways and bow to Dasam Bani with their head and mind.

But i do get your point of don't agrue with nastiks. :biggrin2:

One thing I will never understand about these Kala Afghani Naastiks. Sikhs are suffering from Drug abuse, alcoholism, Patitpuna(apostasy), the Dushts who killed Sikhs in and since 84 are still roaming free, hardly anyone is doing parchar of Sikhi so Sikhi can grow yet these people only see the Dasam Granth as an issue worthy to raise?

I still remember a time before these Kala Afghani parchar became to famous, hardly anyone read or did parkash of Dasam Granth. When these heretics started their koor parchar, it made many pro dasam Granth Sikhs very overly defensive and for the first time in 80years we are seeing a resurgence of Sikhs going prakash of Dasam Granth, which until the rise of Kala Afghana was unheard of except for a few groups such as Nihangs.

These heretics are a GOI asset planted amongst us to confuse us so we will start fighting amongst each other instead of focusing on real Sikh issues such as tackling drug addiction, alcoholism, fake Gurudoms, apostasy and 84. No one before Kala Afghana and his chelas had ever raised a finger at Dasam Granth. From the start Dasam Granth has always been a part of the Panth and all Sikh warriors, scholors, jathas/sampradhas supported this Granth. But these heretics are here just to creat controversies and spread confusion in the Panth.

Oye Kalay Afghani Chelas! Sharam Karo!

[Only five]

Oye Kalay Afghani Chelas! Sharam Karo!

I think Uklondonsikh got your point