New York (Tolerance Of Sikhs)

[learningkaur 82]

no but i have sikh friends which have, one was a trim singh the rest moneh, so i don't know where you fit in with that, i think a lot of people go on it to 'have a good time' because you share rooms don't you, you can only have your own room in the last 6 months and that's if you work as the person in charge of the flat. I don't know if you would find it appropriate if you are a amritdhari or practicing sikh, depends on your personality? I don't think you will have problems from new yorkers, becase you will be on the busy commuting routes etc, and after what happened in Wisconsin they should be aware that you are a sikh and not a muslim?

[Kalsingh 92]

learningkaur, yeah you do share rooms. I am not an amritdhari, I'm a keshdhari. Don't read bani on a regular basis/don't get up for amrivela. I don't drink but I am an open and adventurous type of personality. I'm sure I would find things to do even if everyone else is going off on a binge drinking session! Which I don't think many will really do (not on a regular anyway) as it is more professional than say living out at uni (because here you are working in a professional environment rather than studying). I have a friend (non sikh) who has been too. He had a blast.

Don't know about the last part (aware I am a Sikh and not a Muslim) as I will not be wearing a turban. I will have my hair tied up at the back of my head and have a long beard. Don't know what they will think, lol. But yeah, seeing from the reponses in terms of how visible Sikhs are treated etc, that has enlightened me a bit. However, I will probably get more looks or whatever than 'visible' Sikhs because of my unique hairstyle.

You'll be fine singh just control your anger remember woooo sahhhh

Lol, cool. I'll try my level best if I go

[learningkaur 82]

Oh you will be fine then. I thought you may have been a full on bana wearing Singh who didn't know what he was getting himself into. Goodluck!

[Kalsingh 92]

Oh you will be fine then. I thought you may have been a full on bana wearing Singh who didn't know what he was getting himself into. Goodluck!

Hahahahaha! Thanks.

[Sherdil 352]

Staten Island isn't dangerous. It's mostly middle-class. Some bad parts, but mostly okay. I lived in Harlem for about a year. People think that's a bad area, but those people were friendlier than the goreh downtown. Overall, most people don't bother you, unless you go looking for trouble. Now people go out of their way to talk to you.

[singher23 146]

Staten Island isn't dangerous. It's mostly middle-class. Some bad parts, but mostly okay. I lived in Harlem for about a year. People think that's a bad area, but those people where friendlier than the goreh downtown. Overall, most people don't bother you, unless you go looking for trouble. Now people go out of their way to talk to you.

eh its easy to get lost and whatnot, one wrong turn and you could end up where you shouldn't be. And the neighborhoods are all mixed together. I would avoid it if I was visiting with little knowledge of the city, but thats just me

[Beginner 95]

Staten Island isn't dangerous. It's mostly middle-class. Some bad parts, but mostly okay. I lived in Harlem for about a year. People think that's a bad area, but those people were friendlier than the goreh downtown. Overall, most people don't bother you, unless you go looking for trouble. Now people go out of their way to talk to you.

People stopped to talk to you after Wisconsin?

[Sherdil 352]

Yeah bro. It's like they feel bad for what happened in Wisconsin. I was out of the country when that happened, and when I came back it was a whole different vibe. People come up to me and say hello, good morning, or just start a random conversation. That never happened before.

[buddasingh 211]

Put a dastar on your head or I’ll find you in NYC and attack you verbally and physically. Don’t worry I’ll give you hugs before and after, feed you, and get you stitched up and become your best friend also. Those who give you the clichéd “accept you for who you are”…don’t have a clue what a beautiful person you are.

Right now bro, despite having no style, you may be a better human than me and I’ll respect you for that. However, you are not a keshdhari Sikh when you walk around in public without a dastar. Please don’t tell people that. It is insulting to the legacy of our Guruji’s and such presence in public is confusing and damaging to the psyche of younger Sikhs. Would you walk down the street slapping yourself in the face and say ‘I have my personal reasons’?

Had to get that out of the way to restore forum decorum with the dastar properly respected. You are more likely to get an odd look or comment from a European tourist in Manhattan than a local. Many locals will be sincerely friendly. Many will hate you quietly and be friendly. Keep an eye out for those and find ways to push their buttons. Very few will bother you. Nonetheless, it may help to walk fearlessly, ie. with dastar, and know how to diffuse situations and try to save the courage for fights that are much tougher than those on a sidewalk.

[Kalsingh 92]

buddasingh, I was waiting for someone like you to come along and mess up this thread. Ok, fine maybe I shouldn't call myself a keshdhari sikh (but I was only doing so in this case to give a depiction to one of the posters of who or more precisely, what I look like, in terms of if I'm a moneh, which I'm not, or if I dont' cut my hair). But then, maybe you should be telling all the pug wale around, and to be honest even some amritdharis that they cannot call themselves keshdharis and amridharis as by the fourth masters definition himself, one who calls himself a sikh shall rise in the ambrosial hours, have a bath and meditate on the name. I know you know half of the so called singhs don't even do that, so go tell them to stop calling them sikhs too.

I couldn't really give two hoots about how I come across (looks wise) and if I end up confusing some already confused sikhs. I live for myself, what I'm content with. I don't live to please others. I am not a gursikh by far (one of the reasons I don't wear a dastar). But I respect and see the power in kesh, hence why I don't cut it. Why can't people like you just accept and leave it at that?

'Would you walk down the street slapping yourself in the face and say ‘I have my personal reasons’?'

What is this supposed to mean. Don't judge me mate, just don't go judging me.

[buddasingh 211]

And here’s the interesting part Kalsingh. My comments are not about you or me. They are about Guru Gobind Singh Ji’s beauty with a distinct identity that we both claim to cherish.

My words are not easy to swallow and you’ve handled them with relative grace. You are right about ‘pug wale’ and amritdhari’s. You have grace. You should lecture people like me. You are not giving yourself enough credit by following through to be yourself and embracing your identity.

“I have my personal reasons” ….is in reference to your comment earlier on.

Bro, the thread is on a Sikh forum. It got a bit “messed up” at the point keshdhari Sikh was associated with knocking the dastar off one’s own head. Who needs bollywood to mock us, when we mock ourselves? Who needs the white supremacists to scare us, when we are too scared to be ourselves?

This is not about you or me. This is about standing up for Sikhi. You talk about pungas bro? Sometimes it feels like I fight the world every waking hour as part of a uniform, it’s not pretty, yet I live for it and make it beautiful. The enemy’s blows are sweet.

But when your own bros and sis, the “sikh” majority shout their brotherly love as clean-shaven, trimmed etc. while promoting varied cartoon caricatures of our Guruji’s identity it’s like getting stabbed in the back… because I refuse to see those bros and sis as an enemy.

Are you being judgmental by suggesting I’m judging? In fact you are part of the vast majority when it comes to Sikh identity confusion. By mathematical definition, I claim to be judged.

I can’t possibly know you just like I can’t possibly know the beauty inside a single soldier in an army that is fighting against me. However, if that soldier is pointing a gun at my Guruji’s Sikh identity, speaking up is not about judgment, it is about dignity. And if that soldier is also full of love like you, it’s about lots of tough love in return bro.

[Kalsingh 92]

Bro, the thread is on a Sikh forum. It got a bit “messed up” at the point keshdhari Sikh was associated with knocking the dastar off one’s own head. Who needs bollywood to mock us, when we mock ourselves? Who needs the white supremacists to scare us, when we are too scared to be ourselves?

Errm, and me not wearing a dastar is somehow mocking Sikhs and mocking myself? Lol, nah mate.

This is not about you or me. This is about standing up for Sikhi. You talk about pungas bro? Sometimes it feels like I fight the world every waking hour as part of a uniform, it’s not pretty, yet I live for it and make it beautiful. The enemy’s blows are sweet.

Mate, even you said I am not a Sikh, and you are probably right (in terms of the truest definition). So why should I stand up for Sikhi, it is not my war . Not yet anyway. I've got my own war/s going on at the moment, and believe me they are strong. (On a sidenote I would still probably end up knocking someone out though if I saw a singh being harrassed)

Are you being judgmental by suggesting I’m judging? In fact you are part of the vast majority when it comes to Sikh identity confusion. By mathematical definition, I claim to be judged.

I felt like you were judging me my friend, maybe you weren’t. But to say someone is judging someone when they think they are being judge is not judging that person in the same negative way (the same negative way they thought they were being judged).

I can’t possibly know you just like I can’t possibly know the beauty inside a single soldier in an army that is fighting against me. However, if that soldier is pointing a gun at my Guruji’s Sikh identity, speaking up is not about judgment, it is about dignity. And if that soldier is also full of love like you, it’s about lots of tough love in return bro.

How on earth is anyone here (me or other posters) pointing a gun at the pugri man, I don’t get it. I actually used to wear one, still do occasionally, to the gurdwara and all. You’ve taken this as an insult on Guru Jis identity. Why? Who the hell am I? I’m just a nobody who is not comfortable (many reasons, some even physical, there you go, you’re making me reveal things I didn’t want to) in wearing a dastar at this point in time. That doesn’t mean I am knocking it. In fact it’s the contrary, I don’t feel I can do it justice. It is the guise of a saint, and I am no saint (only one of many reasons again).

All the confusion of Sikh Identiy you talk about, the moneh are doing the most damage (from your point of view, even though my opinions differ) than anyone else. At least I keep my kesh. Its better than cutting it, is it not?

I am not making excuses for not wearing a dastar. It is my own shortcomings (on the whole) that do not allow me to wear it. A dastar on my head is the ultimate place I want to reach in the future, but at the moment, I am finding it very hard. Just let that be. I am not claiming to be better by not wearing one.

[kullykhalsa 123]

Mate, even you said I am not a Sikh, and you are probably right (in terms of the truest definition). So why should I stand up for Sikhi, it is not my war . Not yet anyway.

No where in the above post does the poster say you are not sikh! Why should you stand up for sikhi? why are you even on this forum. You want help from your brothers and sisters and then come out with that.

p.s when its your war let us know so we can chip in when your bothered!

p.p.s whenever people say im battling other stuff/wars etc makes me think that although we are all in different circumstances the majority of us cant complain especially when there are singhs/singhnia rotting in jails, african children starving etc makes our wars seem pretty small

[panther 29]

After Oak Creek and not wearing a Dastar the OP won't have any problems in NYC at all

[Kalsingh 92]

No where in the above post does the poster say you are not sikh! Why should you stand up for sikhi? why are you even on this forum. You want help from your brothers and sisters and then come out with that.

p.s when its your war let us know so we can chip in when your bothered!

p.p.s whenever people say im battling other stuff/wars etc makes me think that although we are all in different circumstances the majority of us cant complain especially when there are singhs/singhnia rotting in jails, african children starving etc makes our wars seem pretty small

Well he kind of implied that when he said I can't call myself a keshdhari sikh. Anyway, I was trying to make a point, maybe I should have worded it differently, don't take it too literally (as I did say I'd batter someone if they harrassed a singh). He's basically saying wear the dastar, yeah its a war and that but fight for it and all that. What I'm saying is, I'm not going to fight a war (inside myself) only for the sake of wearing a pug. That will be a side effect that I will have to do. When I want to wear a pug, intrinsically (not just so that I can fight for it) then I will naturally fight for it anyway. I shoudn't have said why should I fight for sikhi (as I do, in terms of everything, I will debate, have wars of words and even physically fight). I should have said something along the lines of why should I fight for wearing a turban (fight for myself) just for the sake of wearing a turban. I will fight for others. And I will fight for myself once I wear it not just so that I can fight to wear it.

In regards to your comment about we can't complain etc and all of that, these sorts of comments are ignorant, easy to make and have started to annoy me recently. You gotta remember everything is relative. An analogy is about council estate people in the UK. People say that they have it much better than people in Africa/India which is true and therefore have nothing to complain about. But that doesn't mean they don't have it bad. I used to think like how you're thinking, but it is not black and white. People from council estates 'compared' to richer people in the UK can have it really bad and be disadvantaged. It's how they are bought up, and what they are bought up around, that causes struggles. They are told you gotta have the latest trainers, the latest phones, through media and peers at school etc. This goes deep into the psyche from a young age. On the other hand, put a poor child from Africa/India into one of these estates and he'll be in heaven, all he will be happy enought with the food and shelter alone. But make him grow up there for a few years and you will see him start struggling and wanting due to societal pressures. You gotta look at countrys and overall (for other subjects, like mine and 'my war') on a case by case basis. Its easy to start comparing things/people/situations on a global scale and dilute the seriousness of each due to not looking at the struggles individually.