Central London in the early hours

[Singh559]

Regarding the act of trying to get rid of Brar, what does sangat think? Was it a wise thing to do taking into account the possible ramifications for Sikhs and Sikh rights in the UK, or does what happened in 1984 override any sense of trying to get things done through official, peaceful channels?

I ask because I can foresee a situation where we're going to start having to pull out the classic "Sikhism is a peaceful religion" whenever the media wants Sikhs to condemn certain acts by other pumped up Sikhs acting on their own volition. Without blowing my own trumpet I said this time would come around two years ago, whereby there'd be situations like these occuring. It seems that time has arrived much quicker than I thought.

I understand what you're saying, but first we should see what comes out of this first and handle it accordingly.

There is something fishy and the second we admit otherwise is when we stop questioning what really was the reason for what happened or what led up to this.

[VanHelsingh]

I understand what you're saying, but first we should see what comes out of this first and handle it accordingly.

There is something fishy and the second we admit otherwise is when we stop questioning what really was the reason for what happened or what led up to this.

One thing I wish we were capable of doing is being a bit clever about things. It seems the likes of GOI know what buttons to press to get the exact reaction they desire from us. Sometimes I just wish we were a bit imaginative, one step ahead of our opponents, so that we actually surprise "them" and ourselves at times. We're just too predictable, and that means our enemy can make stringent plans which will never be thrown into chaos because there's nothing we are capable of doing which is surprising and ultimately can be combatted by those who wish us harm.

Whilst it isn't entirely relevant on the whole, I suggest some of us read 'The Prince' by Machiavelli. It simply isn't enough to have just the front-line folk taking the hits for everyone; now is the time for the thinkers who feel the same dard for panthic issues to come forward and pull the strings. Forget the Singh uncles mired in their property portfolios, businesses, etc. We need something fresh and daring, and these aforementioned fellows are not the answer.

[Supergizmo]

Waheguru

[singher23]

Regarding the act of trying to get rid of Brar, what does sangat think? Was it a wise thing to do taking into account the possible ramifications for Sikhs and Sikh rights in the UK, or does what happened in 1984 override any sense of trying to get things done through official, peaceful channels?

IF it actually was Sikhs who were behind this attack, I would be proud and disappointed. Proud because they actually tried and disappointed because they messed up so badly. As regards to whether it was a wise thing...there comes a point in time where you know justice is not going to be served, and you become so, so angry because it will never happen, that you just need to do something. And even though I'm sure that those people knew who attacked Brar (assuming they were Sikhs), that this would cast Sikhs in a negative light, they decided to do so anyway. That was because they believed that punishing him was more more important than the way Sikhs were viewed in the eyes of the general public.

There will be those who totally disagree and say "Why did you do this our community, you tarnished us in the public's eyes", and then there are those who agree. It basically comes down to this, would you rather Brar punished for his heinous acts than be viewed highly in the eyes of Britishers.

[13Mirch]

Mehtab Ji ur right. Who the bloody hell do the Sikh organisations work for? Sikhs don't they? If they choose to ignore us than we the commen Sikhs should boycott them and start our own campaigns. We are united!

[Mehtab Singh]

Sorry I don't remember mentioning anything about Sikh orgs?

[VanHelsingh]

IF it actually was Sikhs who were behind this attack, I would be proud and disappointed. Proud because they actually tried and disappointed because they messed up so badly. As regards to whether it was a wise thing...there comes a point in time where you know justice is not going to be served, and you become so, so angry because it will never happen, that you just need to do something. And even though I'm sure that those people knew who attacked Brar (assuming they were Sikhs), that this would cast Sikhs in a negative light, they decided to do so anyway. That was because they believed that punishing him was more more important than the way Sikhs were viewed in the eyes of the general public.

There will be those who totally disagree and say "Why did you do this our community, you tarnished us in the public's eyes", and then there are those who agree. It basically comes down to this, would you rather Brar punished for his heinous acts than be viewed highly in the eyes of Britishers.

It's not about being viewed highly in the eyes of the British or anything like that. It's about having the moral higher ground so you can say "We've done things the right way, because this is what our faith is about."

The British government and their supporters are as hypocritical as the rest of them, but when we want our voice to be heard then we must function in a manner which shows us to be whiter than white, free from accusation, etc.

If some people did know Brar was in the UK, what would've been fantastic is if they'd devised some placards with the word "MURDERER" written on them, and hounded him (keeping a safe distance of course) and followed him wherever he went for a full day. Sooner or later someone in the general public would've fished out their phone and recorded the disturbance and uploaded it up to YouTube or somewhere like that. You never know a news camera crew may have turned up as well. THEN we have the initiative, then we can educate the public what this man did to innocent Sikhs in 1984, then we tell the public there are others like this man who have not been brought to justice for their actions. It would've sent the ball rolling! That's what I would've done.

What's happened now is that WE are on the back foot, on the defensive, when we should've every right to have gone on the - metaphorical - attack by saying "Look at how India shields the perpetrators of violence and death on Sikhs". Now, the news is dominated by how an elderley ex-army general fought off 4 Sikhs and lived to tell the tale! Wow, what a hero for facing down those young bucks and is still kicking! He must be a very brave man, etc.

So like I said earlier the initiative has been lost, and at a moment when we had every right and opportunity to shepherd our plight towards the attention of the wider public we've managed to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. And yes, Brar's death may have been a victory in the eyes of some, but it would've been temporary. To see him leave England with his tail between his legs - after having been exposed in the public - would've been the true victory and a message to the likes of Tytler, Kumar, etc., that you aren't welcome to walk the streets of this country without having your past evil acts brought to the attention of the public.

Then what propaganda would the Indian media machine have spun against Sikhs? That we are waging "war" using peaceful means such as protests, etc? Imagine the positive P.R. for Sikhs if that would've happened! The Indians wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

[Guest West London Singh]

Well now. God moves in mysterious ways. Things haven't turned out quite the way the Indians would have liked. Imagine for one moment you get caught eating an extra plate of buffet than you were allowed to. There will be some sort of police punishment, but not the sort that we see you winning a free holiday at one of her majesty's hotels. Thats exactly the sort of slap on the wrist the 2 that are charged are facing, with their 'assault' charge. So thats the British police, the British crown prosecution service and the British criminal justice system basically saying to Brar and the Indians : "No !!! It was NOT an attempted murder. It was an assault".

Of course we will now see wall to wall coverage on the Indian news media with the headline 'Sikhs did not attempt to murder Brar'. Won't we ???? :blink2:

So lets recap :

Britain tells India Sikhs did not attempt to murder Brar.

Britain as a whole has found out about the crimes against humanity committed by Brar.

The British police, in their zeal to please the Indians, are now the subject to vast and clear claims of making illegal arrests, for which they will have to pay vast compensation.

My advice to Britain is to stay well clear of the Indians in future. When you come into too close a contact with feaces, the feaces has a habit of rubbing off on you. You get tainted with the same feaces smell.

I for one will certainly do my best to ensure the British public are made aware of how the lying, cheating Indians have blackened the good name of the British justice system in the space of a week.

This whole thing really hasn't turned out quite the way India would have liked. :biggrin2:

btw Mehtab Singh. I can log on no problem, but just as before, each thread I visit when logged on says I cannot post a reply to this thread.

[Mehtab Singh]

btw Mehtab Singh. I can log on no problem, but just as before, each thread I visit when logged on says I cannot post a reply to this thread.

nai yaar, sachee??? ok lemme check it out

[Mehtab Singh]

ok u shud be good to go...not sure how that part i just fixed got neglected