Amritdharis and non-amritdharis.

[luckysingh99]

When a person, be they mona, ganjha, with dreadlocks or whatever actually does deep meditation and simran with nothing but pure love for the lord.

Then this very person begins to conquer his 5 thieves and slowly his very own ''ego'' starts to shed one by one, bit by bit.

Slowly, this person begins to live a more gurmat way of life, which comes automatically and with wahegurus grace.

If this mona or lowlife starts to contemplate the teachings in the Granth Sahib ji, he then starts to veer in the direction of an even more gurmat lifestyle with more Sikhi roop expressed in his way of conduct.

Now, if you amritdharis are telling me that this is impossible, then I would love to hear your responses backed up with genuine references!!!

I mean references to our Guru and not what so and so baba said or what blah blah blah said...

[Only five]

You are implying that to ''accept your Guru to be Guru Granth Sahib ji, you must first take amrit!!'

I'm sorry but I have to disagree here.

There are far to many sikhs on here with these biased views. The amritdharis feel that they have an advantage, in this sense they are NO better than the hindu brahmin caste.

Who has ever stopped you from taking Amrit because of your family background or anything related to caste? This is completely ridiculous way to behave. I would expect a ignorant person from a different religion to act this way, but not a Sikh who knows that anyone can take Amrit.

Why don't you take Amrit or those who you are protecting take Amrit? No one has stopped them from taking Amrit. So why do they not take Amrit? Every reason and excuse they give will be that they are lacking something...........

You guys should stop and just listen to what you are saying here.

These attitudes are just like the brahmins.

There is NOTHING GURMATT about these attitudes and expressions.

Some of you amrithdharis sound exactly like the sadhus that questioned Guru Nanak Ji in 'Sidh Ghisht'.

Again lack of knowledge and just looking for an excuse to not take Amrit. Blame and slander those who have taken it, so then taking Amrit is a bad thing. Typical thing people do when they don't want to look deep inside and say i am lacking in strength.

With regards to ''NAAM'' - most of you think that this is the special gurmantar only given by by your babas or deras.

You think it is like a password to gain spirituality and gyaan!!!

Huh!!!! Now we know what the problem is. You don't know the difference between Gurmantar and Naam and who gives each one. Singhs that know more can educate you here.

Let me tell a little about ''Naam''

- Naam is something deep within all of us, even kauda raksh had it!

To be able to connect with this naam is to be the closest you can be to God and creation.

Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj is also inside everyone. Even a rapist has him inside, even a person that kills a million and then eats only vegatarian food has Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj inside. Show us where Satguru says you need to be closest as possible to have Naam.

You do NOT, I repeat do NOT have to be amritdhari to ''connect' with this naam that is within.

According to who? Any references here?

There are many non-amritdharies that are connected with this naam much more than some of their fellow amritdharis.

You asked others what Naam is, so now tell us what Naam is. Can a first grade student be called a brain surgeon?

These monai or trimmed bearded folks are in consonance with naam and contemplate the lord in all their work and actions.

Great so they know that taking Amrit is the first step to move forward in Sikhi.

If a an amritdhari claims that ony he has the 'key to unlock' and access the naam connection, then I am afraid, that very amritdhari is much further away from the very naam himself and living in cuckoo land!!

His actions and attitude are completely not in any state of naam.

Now there is no need to get angry and start name calling. You should show us Amritdharis how mona have Naam and don't insult others. Or by your understanding a person with Naam can get angry and insult others?

Please don't insult and deface the very word ''naam'' with this brahminised garbage talk of ''I am, I am,...amritdhari only,amrithdhari only,...me,me,me,me......''

Before you can determine whether someone is defacing the very word Naam, you need to understand and explain to others what Naam is.

[N30S1NGH]

Luckysingh99 ji,

All dharam have four layers/stages- Shariat, Tariqat, Marfat and Hakikat . Sikhi structure is no different.

At shariat layer of sikhi one takes admission to sikhi by taking amrit, by taking the physical initiation khanda batta da amrit and receiving naam amrit is quite important as it symbolizes that now student/shish/sikh has a guru/teacher in our case our guru is sri guru granth sahib ji and saints/panj pyares are guides just available for help between path of journey between you and your guru.

You will find many who will try to take shortcuts and claim all sort of things- i am spiritual not religious, heart and mind should be good nothing else matters etc etc but they don't realize their foundation might not be strong so they fall a part after sometime in their hocus-pocus spirituality.

With that being said, there are some exceptional cases (might be your case) whose foundations are already strong from previous lives so they can feel they are going to higher states directly - talking to sri guru granth sahib and do naam simran directly and everything(gurmat character/naturally taking amrit in a bit) falls automatically and spontaneously in place for them.

But for the most part, Sikh must take khanda batta da amrit, receive shabad gurmantar and keep basic rehat (admission to school, following basic rules of school and begin study in school of sikhi just like worldly school, school of sikhi also have different grades like for eg- attach mind with Vahiguroo by going through different stages (shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat) in spiritual development - graduation, diploma, degree, ma, phd (at the end/aim is to merge with Vahiguroo where we came from originally via meditation).

Biggest mistake one could make after taking amrit- spending its precious time in doubts/pondering/debating-winning arguments over policy(rehat details etc) just accept it and move on to different stages i.e - if one in marfat stage, rituals in shariat should appear seamless and natural to them so much so not even one second or breath is spent pondering over the rituals in shariat layer because focus is actually on the study now

Have you ever seen high school/university student wrap its head around over policies/rules - NO!!, they accept it and they move on to the "actual study".

Now coming back to reality now this is where its g o i n g t o b i t e whole lot of people because t r u t h h u r t s most of amritdharis with their holier than thou attitude will spent most of their precious life living amritdhari as superficially/hypocritically being stuck and wrapping their head around first- shariat layer of sikhi so much so that they forget all higher stages in the sikhi- tariqat, marfat and hakikat.

But wait a minute? No need to panic because - Guru maharaj has provided his hand to them to get them out from web of trap in the first-shariat layer of sikhi by giving this vak:

All though orginally given to sharia panthi muslim of that time but gurbani is meant for everyone including off course sikhs, its fits perfectably looking at the sad state of affairs among holier than thou amritdharis.

Ang- 1083

saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu ||

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu ||

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3|

[luckysingh99]

Who has ever stopped you from taking Amrit because of your family background or anything related to caste? This is completely ridiculous way to behave. I would expect a ignorant person from a different religion to act this way, but not a Sikh who knows that anyone can take Amrit.

Why don't you take Amrit or those who you are protecting take Amrit? No one has stopped them from taking Amrit. So why do they not take Amrit? Every reason and excuse they give will be that they are lacking something...........

Again lack of knowledge and just looking for an excuse to not take Amrit. Blame and slander those who have taken it, so then taking Amrit is a bad thing. Typical thing people do when they don't want to look deep inside and say i am lacking in strength.

Huh!!!! Now we know what the problem is. You don't know the difference between Gurmantar and Naam and who gives each one. Singhs that know more can educate you here.

Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj is also inside everyone. Even a rapist has him inside, even a person that kills a million and then eats only vegatarian food has Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj inside. Show us where Satguru says you need to be closest as possible to have Naam.

According to who? Any references here?

You asked others what Naam is, so now tell us what Naam is. Can a first grade student be called a brain surgeon?

Great so they know that taking Amrit is the first step to move forward in Sikhi.

Now there is no need to get angry and start name calling. You should show us Amritdharis how mona have Naam and don't insult others. Or by your understanding a person with Naam can get angry and insult others?

Before you can determine whether someone is defacing the very word Naam, you need to understand and explain to others what Naam is.

You my friend are slandering for no reason. I mad a few honest points here.

Tell me exactly in what words I have slandered amritdharies. The right people have no cause or fault, however it is the extreme lost ones that give them all a different colour.

Think about exactly what you are saying, do you really think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had this kind of a future sikh in mind ???

Stay calm, do some naam simran and better yourself with the Guru's grace.

[luckysingh99]

Luckysingh99 ji,

All dharam have four layers/stages- Shariat, Tariqat, Marfat and Hakikat . Sikhi structure is no different.

At shariat layer of sikhi one takes admission to sikhi by taking amrit, by taking the physical initiation khanda batta da amrit and receiving naam amrit is quite important as it symbolizes that now student/shish/sikh has a guru/teacher in our case our guru is sri guru granth sahib ji and saints/panj pyares are guides just available for help between path of journey between you and your guru.

You will find many who will try to take shortcuts and claim all sort of things- i am spiritual not religious, heart and mind should be good nothing else matters etc etc but they don't realize their foundation might not be strong so they fall a part after sometime in their hocus-pocus spirituality.

With that being said, there are some exceptional cases (might be your case) whose foundations are already strong from previous lives so they can feel they are going to higher states directly - talking to sri guru granth sahib and do naam simran directly and everything(gurmat character/naturally taking amrit in a bit) falls automatically and spontaneously in place for them.

But for the most part, Sikh must take khanda batta da amrit, receive shabad gurmantar and keep basic rehat (admission to school, following basic rules of school and begin study in school of sikhi just like worldly school, school of sikhi also have different grades like for eg- attach mind with Vahiguroo by going through different stages (shariat, tariqat, marfat and hakikat) in spiritual development - graduation, diploma, degree, ma, phd (at the end/aim is to merge with Vahiguroo where we came from originally via meditation).

Biggest mistake one could make after taking amrit- spending its precious time in doubts/pondering/debating-winning arguments over policy(rehat details etc) just accept it and move on to different stages i.e - if one in marfat stage, rituals in shariat should appear seamless and natural to them so much so not even one second or breath is spent pondering over the rituals in shariat layer because focus is actually on the study now

Have you ever seen high school/university student wrap its head around over policies/rules - NO!!, they accept it and they move on to the "actual study".

Now coming back to reality now this is where its g o i n g t o b i t e whole lot of people because t r u t h h u r t s most of amritdharis with their holier than thou attitude will spent most of their precious life living amritdhari as superficially/hypocritically being stuck and wrapping their head around first- shariat layer of sikhi so much so that they forget all higher stages in the sikhi- tariqat, marfat and hakikat.

But wait a minute? No need to panic because - Guru maharaj has provided his hand to them to get them out from web of trap in the first-shariat layer of sikhi by giving this vak:

All though orginally given to sharia panthi muslim of that time but gurbani is meant for everyone including off course sikhs, its fits perfectably looking at the sad state of affairs among holier than thou amritdharis.

Ang- 1083

saraa sareeath lae ka(n)maavahu ||

Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.

thareekath tharak khoj ttolaavahu ||

Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.

maarafath man maarahu abadhaalaa milahu hakeekath jith fir n maraa ||3||

Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man; meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3|

Thank you ji.

I find all your posts very encouraging and inspiring.

Your stance is always very neutral and to the point, unlike dear 'only 5-ji' above who has anger issues!

This is the beauty of sikhism. It doesn't dictate and instruct you to blind followings or blind rituals, but it simply lets you decide what really matters.

Ek onkaar and the simple truth is what the Guru Granth Sahib ji starts with and continues throughout to give us the trueer meanings and understandings of this simple yet very deep concept at the beginning of Japji sahib.

[13Mirch]

When a person, be they mona, ganjha, with dreadlocks or whatever actually does deep meditation and simran with nothing but pure love for the lord.

Then this very person begins to conquer his 5 thieves and slowly his very own ''ego'' starts to shed one by one, bit by bit.

Slowly, this person begins to live a more gurmat way of life, which comes automatically and with wahegurus grace.

If this mona or lowlife starts to contemplate the teachings in the Granth Sahib ji, he then starts to veer in the direction of an even more gurmat lifestyle with more Sikhi roop expressed in his way of conduct.

Now, if you amritdharis are telling me that this is impossible, then I would love to hear your responses backed up with genuine references!!!

I mean references to our Guru and not what so and so baba said or what blah blah blah said...

I will just say that even Guru Nanak Dev Ji had charan pahul amrit. And yes the meditation bit will veer him in the right direction. Ultimately towards amrit.

[luckysingh99]

I will just say that even Guru Nanak Dev Ji had charan pahul amrit. And yes the meditation bit will veer him in the right direction. Ultimately towards amrit.

That's exactly what i'm saying !!!

It makes it all worthwhile to earn towards the amrit in this manner. That is how I vew it, rather than enforcing on to your younger kids and they later grow up with less regard for it.

[13Mirch]

That's exactly what i'm saying !!!

It makes it all worthwhile to earn towards the amrit in this manner. That is how I vew it, rather than enforcing on to your younger kids and they later grow up with less regard for it.

I think it's more the mindset the parents have. If that mindset is changed then this gap can be sealed, closed.

[Only five]

You my friend are slandering for no reason. I mad a few honest points here.

Present the slander i directed at anyone in this thread. You made illogical claims. You want others to provide references, but not one is coming from your end. And SGPC Rehat is not a reference. Provide Rehat from the original Punj Pyare and providing similar references, then you actual may be proving your point. Or even presnet Gurbani. You seem very confident with your belief system, then present the references.

Tell me exactly in what words I have slandered amritdharies. The right people have no cause or fault, however it is the extreme lost ones that give them all a different colour.

If a an amritdhari claims that ony he has the 'key to unlock' and access the naam connection, then I am afraid, that very amritdhari is much further away from the very naam himself and living in cuckoo land!!

The insult is in bold. I bolded it last time too, but i guess you need to clean your screen and/or your glasses to see the screen properly. But its hard to believe the insult slipped your mind or is it you do it so much that its hard to keep track where you started and where you began?

Think about exactly what you are saying, do you really think that Guru Gobind Singh Ji had this kind of a future sikh in mind ???

I'm thinking about what i said it and i know i have Rehat that Satguru Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji wrote to back it up and Gurbani to back it up. You still haven't provided one reference to say how Naam is attained or what Naam is. You have dodged these questions like a good dodge ball player.

Stay calm, do some naam simran and better yourself with the Guru's grace.

You don't need to tell me to stay calm. Your advice is good for you since you are the one slandering Amritdharis here. Did i slander mona or patit or Amritdharis.....not one place.

Your stance is always very neutral and to the point, unlike dear 'only 5-ji' above who has anger issues!

Anger issues lies in those that slander others by saying they are living in cuckoo land. If you are looking for a neutral point of view then you might want to talk to the Jamdhoot. They usually work out deals and take the good, bad, and very ugly and hairy situations into consideration. They look for the balance, but sometimes they just lean toward the hairy.....i mean cut hair. I'm always disliked by those who are political (im good from the inside, thats what counts) in life and don't want to follow the rules.

So instead of discussing me or someone else, stick to the topic and answer the questions asked from you. Or are you one only to ask questions and don't every respond to others questions because that might actually lead to find the truth. And who wants the truth, its ugly......political correctness is much better right!!!!!!

[13Mirch]

But I do not believe monas can get naam. They are not following the Guru's hukam. What I mean is they cannot unlock it's full use to get to Waheguru. It will lead them to Amrit etc. But it's better to be prepared before hand.