3HO - Friends or Enemies in Friends clothing?

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

Well that depends how you look at it? I think engaging in inter-faith is ok but line has to be drawn by wider panth. How much engaging is too much ?

We all know we hardly a champion in inter-faith sessions..most of sikhs i have met are self absorbed within themselves, walk around with entitlement looks down to jatha's and samparda's within sikh community let alone looking down to all religions.

If we look at wider panth than abroad (one mindset or two mindset) ...inter-faith sessions were always part of the panth, there was a reason why sri guru gobind singh had diverse 52 kavi poets in his darbar so interfaith is celebrated- nirmale/sevapanthis/taksal (baba harnam singh dhumma following his predecessors) have been doing inter-faith sessions and gurmat parchar every kumb mela and in sadhu samelan in rishikesh. I think rather than bringing change on that front. We must look at ourselves- if small inter-faith sessions can knock our sikhi down..then vahiguroo help us..!!

One such living example of inter-faith- Guru Ki Maseet:

http://www.info-sikh.../MassPage1.html

Paaji, I totally agree that reaching out other faiths (both listening to others about theirs as well as teaching then about ours) is a integral part of our path, however I think there is a line being blurred by our brothers and sisters at 3ho and this blurring most definitely cannot be classed as interfaith dialogue or discourse. This is in no way intended to be a 3ho bashing session, but just a concern I have had over the last couple of years, especially after attending their kundalini evenings, sahdana's and their events in general. More so because I see some valuable media portals i.e. Siknet.com & Sikhiwiki being controlled by members of this organisation and I wonder what the future holds regarding the messages coming out of these media sites when it seems the creators are partaking in questionable acts

[Mehtab Singh]

I have seen them myself interrupting Anand Sahib just because they still had to sing their "Song of the Khalsa". Its an amazing song but not equal to Gurbani. They sit in the darbaar with joothhee water bottles. It might be alright for them, I kind of find it unacceptable. Sorry, thats just me. They do Chaur Sahib seva with socks on which is unacceptable. Socks carry all the dirt under your feet, you just can't sit in taabiya with them on. You have to clean your feet, hands, etc. prior to it as its done out of respect, no rituals here.

[N30S1NGH]

Paaji, I totally agree that reaching out other faiths (both listening to others about theirs as well as teaching then about ours) is a integral part of our path, however I think there is a line being blurred by our brothers and sisters at 3ho and this blurring most definitely cannot be classed as interfaith dialogue or discourse. This is in no way intended to be a 3ho bashing session, but just a concern I have had over the last couple of years, especially after attending their kundalini evenings, sahdana's and their events in general. More so because I see some valuable media portals i.e. Siknet.com & Sikhiwiki being controlled by members of this organisation and I wonder what the future holds regarding the messages coming out of these media sites when it seems the creators are partaking in blatant maanmaat.

I understand your concerns but do weigh with your concerns with bright side of things- amount of sikhi parchar is happening while engaging kundalini yoga..Sri Singh sahib harbhajan singh yogi is living example. He actually came to america as kundalini yoga teacher, as many got engaged in kundalini yoga he infused sikh tidbits in them slowly but surely, make the converts not just yogis but sant/sipahi by making them amrit dhari khalsa with bana with royalty, look how far sikhi has flourished in western hemisphere

There is famous saying or prophecy in nihang bola - 96 crore khalsa. 960 million khalsa..how do you vision them?

Do you vision them following same mindset or same outlook or same perception or do you vision them have slighty different way of doing things than mainstream sikhs but at the end all coming together as one panth?

[N30S1NGH]

I have seen them myself interrupting Anand Sahib just because they still had to sing their "Song of the Khalsa". Its an amazing song but not equal to Gurbani. They sit in the darbaar with joothhee water bottles. It might be alright for them, I kind of find it unacceptable. Sorry, thats just me. They do Chaur Sahib seva with socks on which is unacceptable. Socks carry all the dirt under your feet, you just can't sit in taabiya with them on. You have to clean your feet, hands, etc. prior to it as its done out of respect, no rituals here.

You don't think bhai fauja singh akj, baba nihal singh harianbela and sant jarnail singh bhindranwale didn't know about their dhil or some of the hocus-pocus stuff? How did they reacted? did they isolate the differences and captalize on them or looked at the bigger picture?

[Mehtab Singh]

LOL, yaar I am nowhere near those Gurmukhs. They had pyaar, I can only post on Sikhsnagat :D

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

Paaji, I see everything in this world through rose tinted specs and look for the Guru and good in all. Let me state this nice and clearly, all 3ho brothers and sisters are exactly that my brothers and sisters. However, it seems you would like us to turn a blind eye to the negative actions carried out by many senior 3ho members and which filters down to junior members or outside observers as acceptable, just because there are some positive actions (in line with Sikhi) being carried out at the same time or by another factions. I love every single person carrying forth the divine message of our Guru Sahiban with pure intention, but by your logic it would seem that I should also hold other organisations such as the “Rashtriya Sikh Sangat” in high esteem because some of them might or might not get up at amrit vela or recite Gurbani (all be it out of context or to confuse the masses).

“There is famous saying or prophecy in nihang bola” – Sorry what is the famous saying?

Just like I said above, I also love the nihang dal as my brothers and sisters, however I question quite a few of the warped rituals they carry out. You might call certain things they do like drinking weed drinks as puritan but I don’t. It’s like the nihangs of today who have now started accepting alcohol as some sort of maryada and in say 100 years from now, future Sikhs will argue about the “oral traditions” stating how they are the original Sikhs and every single other pseudo Sikh from every other institution was influenced by the Singh Sabha boogieman and the protestants have reprogrammed our minds and that they should all be drinking Jack Daniels because it makes you concentrate more. I question EVERYTHING except my Guru Sahib and all of their words.

[Singh559]

Well that depends how you look at it? I think engaging in inter-faith is ok but line has to be drawn by wider panth. How much engaging is too much ?

We all know we hardly a champion in inter-faith sessions..most of sikhs i have met are self absorbed within themselves, walk around with entitlement looks down to jatha's and samparda's within sikh community let alone looking down to all religions.

If we look at wider panth than abroad (one mindset or two mindset) ...inter-faith sessions were always part of the panth, there was a reason why sri guru gobind singh had diverse 52 kavi poets in his darbar so interfaith is celebrated- nirmale/sevapanthis/taksal (baba harnam singh dhumma following his predecessors) have been doing inter-faith sessions and gurmat parchar every kumb mela and in sadhu samelan in rishikesh. I think rather than bringing change on that front. We must look at ourselves- if small inter-faith sessions can knock our sikhi down..then vahiguroo help us..!!

One such living example of inter-faith- Guru Ki Maseet:

http://www.info-sikh.../MassPage1.html

Agreed completely. We need interfaith building, but we shouldn't part-take in havan just to please someone, especially when in India we're not considered Sikhs.

Great photograph!

[Singh559]

http://www.sikharchives.com/?p=8003

This is a good point. I personally wouldn't want to get in a debate with 3HO about this because they really do believe it's okay to do this so long as it's inter-faith building. Now, I know many may disagree with it, but as a whole they should promote Gurmat.

I like 3HO and I don't think Gursant is a bad person at all, but it takes two to tango. Perhaps Gursant is blowing it out of proportion, but that he can justify as Macauliffe had already predicted that Sikhi wouldn't flourish. While not being paranoid, we should be attentive and alert and be able to respectfully tell someone not to do such an act.

We need Bhai Sahib Bhai Rajoana as Singh Sahib acting Jathedar or Bhai Ranjit Singh again.

[humkire]

3HO - Friends or Enemies in Friends clothing?

This topic starts with that question. My humble verdict is 3HO=Friends.

There is a lot they need to get right about their rehnee behnee kehnee and sehnee as Sikhs, but so do ,I and so do you. Sikhi is an infinite journey, a river, a flow, a progression from level to level to level to level.

As much as Sikhi is about a community or a community within a community, Sikhi is also about the individual in any one sub community. And all individuals within a community are not the same. The ultimate question is a very simple one. Does an individual belonging to any community of Sikhs consider deep in her or his hidden self Guru Gobind Singh as their Father(Pita Kalgidhar Dashmesh) and Guru Granth Sahib as Guru Ultimate. Then, that inner sambandh, will become an unbreakable thread and powerful spiritual missile that will propel one into the orbit of the Guru's universe ultimately getting buried in the earth of the Guru's Supreme Consciousness.

The sampradaya, the jetha, the group one belongs to, are just optional launch pads for the individual soul. Some people need them and some dont. That is why high level gurmukhs of a particular sub group pick no quarrels with others because they realise what really matters is the journey of an individual soul.

Saying that, it is imperative that at the highest level of organisation of the Sikh Panth, there needs to be a specific overseeing regulatory body that supervises jethas and groups, ensures they are responsible and transparent, and ensures that boundaries do not get blurred and lines are not crossed, that would constitute anti gurmat and be counter productive to Sikhi and Sikhi parchar.

[Shaheed Singh Khalsa]

humkire ji - Amazing answer. Thank you