3HO - Friends or Enemies in Friends clothing?

[Akal Warrior]

Why do people pick on 3ho so much? Do akj ask if nihangs are friends or enemies? Do taksalis ask if nanaksar Sikhs are friends or enemies? All jathas have different opinions on sooooo many subjects, but we just agree to disagree and carry on... But for some reason we have this issue with always bashing the 3ho...why pick and choose who we call enemies and who we call friends when everyone is following Sikhi differently then their fellow Sikh brothers and sisters? Live and let live

[Singh559]

Why do people pick on 3ho so much? Do akj ask if nihangs are friends or enemies? Do taksalis ask if nanaksar Sikhs are friends or enemies? All jathas have different opinions on sooooo many subjects, but we just agree to disagree and carry on... But for some reason we have this issue with always bashing the 3ho...why pick and choose who we call enemies and who we call friends when everyone is following Sikhi differently then their fellow Sikh brothers and sisters? Live and let live

I agree.

We shouldn't ask questions like these as it will alienate instead of unify.

[N30S1NGH]

Why do people pick on 3ho so much? Do akj ask if nihangs are friends or enemies? Do taksalis ask if nanaksar Sikhs are friends or enemies? All jathas have different opinions on sooooo many subjects, but we just agree to disagree and carry on... But for some reason we have this issue with always bashing the 3ho...why pick and choose who we call enemies and who we call friends when everyone is following Sikhi differently then their fellow Sikh brothers and sisters? Live and let live

I agree. How come i don't see- topic related to famous jatha or samparda abroad with this kind of over sensational/ fear mongering/over exaggerated heading?..Let me guess..if someone does open it...it will locked in no time. Why? Can we truly claim that we put wider panth first than our own cultish bias allegiance to our jatha/samparda and groups than actual wider panth?. If tommorow jathedars of all five takths issues a hakumnama which is contrary to popular beleif in jatha or samparda? Can we truly claim and accept the hakumnama by putting our cultish /bias little attitude behind?

I can write a whole book on amount of crap-manmat practices/thought goes on usually promoted/encourage by over zealous cultish types of people shared by all samparda and jatha. But that might be to hard to swallow but the fact is unless you pay direct allegiance to khalsa panth in other words unless you have 360* degrees full view of panth than view it from your little tunnel you are *NOT* directly/indirectly following Gurmat. The ironic part is bhramgyanis of all the jatha/samparda despite of them being jathedar/sant/bhai sahib in the jatha/samparda have reached state where they can see panth from 360* full view and but as usual over zealous chelas are left behind- missing the boat as usual by harping on glory of their jathedars/sants/bhai sahib like a parrot jevoh witnesseses and wrap their head around it then actually walking the talk..its same crap everywhere, its human thing shared by all human nature..!!!!!!!!!!

[N30S1NGH]

3HO - Friends or Enemies in Friends clothing?

This topic starts with that question. My humble verdict is 3HO=Friends.

There is a lot they need to get right about their rehnee behnee kehnee and sehnee as Sikhs, but so do ,I and so do you. Sikhi is an infinite journey, a river, a flow, a progression from level to level to level to level.

As much as Sikhi is about a community or a community within a community, Sikhi is also about the individual in any one sub community. And all individuals within a community are not the same. The ultimate question is a very simple one. Does an individual belonging to any community of Sikhs consider deep in her or his hidden self Guru Gobind Singh as their Father(Pita Kalgidhar Dashmesh) and Guru Granth Sahib as Guru Ultimate. Then, that inner sambandh, will become an unbreakable thread and powerful spiritual missile that will propel one into the orbit of the Guru's universe ultimately getting buried in the earth of the Guru's Supreme Consciousness.

The sampradaya, the jetha, the group one belongs to, are just optional launch pads for the individual soul. Some people need them and some dont. That is why high level gurmukhs of a particular sub group pick no quarrels with others because they realise what really matters is the journey of an individual soul.

Saying that, it is imperative that at the highest level of organisation of the Sikh Panth, there needs to be a specific overseeing regulatory body that supervises jethas and groups, ensures they are responsible and transparent, and ensures that boundaries do not get blurred and lines are not crossed, that would constitute anti gurmat and be counter productive to Sikhi and Sikhi parchar.

Truly amazing post, very neutral up to point..last paragraph sums it very well.!!

[Mehtab Singh]

I don't think anyone here is really all that dead against the 3HO jatha as such, but yes probably not in agreement with several practices of theirs, which can include (and isn't limited to) yagya, idolatry, wearing of non-Sikh symbols etc. I myself have learnt a lot from Sikhnet as well as Guruka Singh's videos, however, what is wrong is wrong. In many aspects they are way better than Punjabi Sikhs, no denying that. One of my best friends had stayed for several years with them, and he was able to see a number of things where they need to improve upon and also where we Punjabis need to learn from them. No one is perfect, but just by highlighting drawbacks no one really means to be condemning them.

I think this discussion would have been best posted at Sikhnet maybe? I doubt we anyone from 3HO on here who could guide us as to why they do what some might see as incorrect. Or is there?

[N30S1NGH]

But one must agree its highly over sensational/ fear mongering/over exaggerated topic heading. Don't you think? Perhaps, you can use your own imagination with replacing with 3HO in heading with other groups? Rose will appear like a thorn all of sudden.. :lol2:

[Mehtab Singh]

Its possibly over-sensationalized because its a jathebandi dominated by non-Punjabi Sikhs from a non-Punjabi background (a non-Indian or non-desi background if you will). Punjabis use their pictures and videos to promote Sikhi (like Sikhi was a marketable product LOL). So basically folks look upto them, and when you see them going/doing wrong (in terms of Gurmat), it does raise an alarm. Other jathebandis started in Punjab/India are full of Punjabi Sikhs anyways and already have several points where they differ. They try to sort out those differences (if at all possible) among themselves in a way and language that they are more familiar with. With 3HO, its a different story. When they are seen to be following non-Sikh "rituals" in the garb of a Khalsa, it will make any devout Gursikh feel uncomfortable. Any jana-khana Punjabi Sikh will feel that ehna goreyaan ne pata nai kee kush leyaake milaata Sikhi ch, even though the 3HO Sikhs themselves might be unaware of it and could be doing it unaware of the impression it leaves.

Another thing is that (and this is only my opinion) when any person embraces another religion and is not fully aware of the do's and dont's, there are slight chances that he/she unknowingly may or may not bring elements of his/her previous faith into his/her new faith. Trust me its human nature and is very normal. How do you think the caste cancer along with other things creeped in? The only way out is to bring about awareness, and also the other side should be ready to accept, learn and change (towards the positive spectrum of Gurmat).

I'll give you my example. I am not from a Sikh family. Several years ago when I was a mona, I didn't know that wearing a cap/hat is forbidden in Sikhi. Guess what, I used to do Sukhmani Sahib paath with a cap on. Some used to say "awwwwwww, you did it out of love and innocence", but does that make it right? No it doesn't. My ignorance is no legitimate reason for twisting and bending Gurmat siddhaant. If I had to ask any question, I would never take a Hukamnama, because I had no idea. I would toss a coin (Sholay style) to get my answer. "Awwwwwww that is so cute, so innocent, so full of childlike love", but does that make it right? Only later on when I realized what a fool I was (and presently continue to be) did I stop. Are 3HO ready to accept that some of the stuff they do is wrong? Are they ready to quit those unSikh practices? That is my only question. Believe me, other than a few things, their level of dedication towards Sikhi is something I can only wish to attain.

This thread has actually answered my question I had in mind for a few weeks about the scenario of the Sikh qaum with the possibility of 7 crore (70 million) Dalit brothers/sisters embracing Sikhi back in the days of Dr. Ambedkar. So thanks for that as well!

[N30S1NGH]

Its possibly over-sensationalized because its a jathebandi dominated by non-Punjabi Sikhs from a non-Punjabi background (a non-Indian or non-desi background if you will). Punjabis use their pictures and videos to promote Sikhi (like Sikhi was a marketable product LOL). So basically folks look upto them, and when you see them going/doing wrong (in terms of Gurmat), it does raise an alarm. Other jathebandis started in Punjab/India are full of Punjabi Sikhs anyways and already have several points where they differ. They try to sort out those differences (if at all possible) among themselves in a way and language that they are more familiar with. With 3HO, its a different story. When they are seen to be following non-Sikh "rituals" in the garb of a Khalsa, it will make any devout Gursikh feel uncomfortable. Any jana-khana Punjabi Sikh will feel that ehna goreyaan ne pata nai kee kush leyaake milaata Sikhi ch, even though the 3HO Sikhs themselves might be unaware of it and could be doing it unaware of the impression it leaves.

So yeah does that make it right? NO..We all know sikhi does not belong to punjabi or punjabi tribalism. But the sad reality is, punjabis have super imposed themselves on sikhi.. Try to even suggest let gorreh sikhs vote in SGPC election, hell they didn't even allow gorreh/blacks sikhs do kirtan at darbar sahib. Thanks to baba nihal singh harianbela along with nihang dals who upheld the khalsa values by the drawing arms for fighting for under representated/under dogs right:

http://www.mrsikhnet...48676901381254/

I am sure there are many things punjabI sikhs do within themselves which are not according to Gurmat and once you across the turf - arms will be drawn by others for eg- sikhs walking to inspect guru maharaj sargun saroop if its pad ched or larivar..if its pad ched then walk away from guru instead of matha taiking, or ignorant so called sorma's labeling chandi di // patt- bhraminvad rachna or refusing to read last ang of sri guru granth sahib ji in akhand patt or deliberately stop broad casting akhand patt at the last ang of sri guru granth sahib ji etc etc...!!!!!

Another thing is that (and this is only my opinion) when any person embraces another religion and is not fully aware of the do's and dont's, there are slight chances that he/she unknowingly may or may not bring elements of his/her previous faith into his/her new faith. Trust me its human nature and is very normal. How do you think the caste cancer along with other things creeped in? The only way out is to bring about awareness, and also the other side should be ready to accept, learn and change (towards the positive spectrum of Gurmat).

They are fully aware of traditions, they are very perception based- looking at bigger picture and engage humanity in world prayer, human from all different religions coming together celebrating divine in various ways..i am sure by this rate people would have problem with bhai ghaniya ji feeding water and medical supplies to enemies during..here we are simply talking about engaging in inter faith....so at the end they left their right wing protestant type of christianity for beautiful divine sargun and nirgun sikhi. Surely, we can advise them sikhi is not only sargun marg but the main aim is transcedenting from sargun to nirgun...it all depends how you approach them, bridge with them and engage with them dialogues..you think if we approach with arrogance jevoh witness type of attitude..you think they will listen..they will revolt..because thats exactly the same mindset -christian right wing protestant type attitude they ran away from at the first place before they got into sikhi...!!

[Mehtab Singh]

we can advise them sikhi is not only sargun marg but the main aim is transcedenting from sargun to nirgun...

Yes, I am asking for something like that.

By the way, have you attended any 3HO keertan divaans?

[N30S1NGH]

No, i haven't yet. My wife and i planning to go to summer solstice camp though next year with friend(who is gyani ji from samparda's school) and his wife who is 3HO.