Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Unbreakable

Dasvand & Emotional Blackmailing

Emotional Blackmail  

17 members have voted

  1. 1. Are we emotionally blackmailed into donating money



Recommended Posts

VaheGuru Ji Ka Khalsa, VaheGuru Ji Ki Fateh,

I hope this topic raises some sort of constructive discussion here, where we can learn something.

This is a issue which is very close to everyone, as it involves you giving part of something which belongs to a complete stranger with whom you have no affiliation, most of the time this "something" is Money. Most of the time, only Money is asked for, very few organisations ask for skills of an individual, etc.

This is the case for all religious organisations, Islam, Hinduism, Judaism, Jain, Sikhi, Christianity, etc.

There is some sort of divine law which requires or in some cases warrants us to give to the needy and less fortunate.

I would like to discuss what Gurbani has to say about Dasvand, where this concept was mentioned, how it was born, who put it forward.

Some of the ways in which we are asked to donate are

- Donate your dasvand to

- Donate the Gurus dasvand to

- To attain Gurus happyness, donate to

- If you don't donate, you will be in Karmic Debt

- Sikhi will be finished if you don't donate

-How do you know that your dasvand will be used honestly, if it isn't then you will be held responsible and the bad karmic action will affect you too.

For example, we give money to a Baba (or organisation), but that baba (or organisation) doesn't use that money for the intended purpose. Because he didn't use it for the intended purpose, you will also be affected by his bad karmic action.

Now, lets say if you make all possible enquiries into where the money will go, you still will be held responsible.

In these incidents, YOU, the person donating, do not know about the hidden agenda of the baba (or organisation).

So question is, HOW ARE YOU RESPONSIBLE?

I first heard this from a Radha Soami in India around 7 years ago, where he was saying, if you donate your money to a poor man and he goes and drinks, then beats his wife up or kills her, YOU will be HELD responsible. When I challenged him, he just kept to his line that you will be held responsible EVEN if you don't know.

After all of this, he said, So its better to donate to US as we will honestly spend your money. *the small print*

So as we see, Psychological and Emotional blackmailing is used to make you feel guilty about something which "might" happen in the future. However if you give to them, then you are OK and NOTHING will happen to you.

Are these ways of making you feel guilty to take your money from you????

So, what does Gurbani say, specifically on Dasvand, Charity, Karmic Debt, etc.

I am not against helping the needy and less fortunate, however we must have some clarity here and not get washed away in our emotions when we hear some lines of gurbani being spoken sweetly, all designed to rob you.

Please Note - Sources and references must be given. No made up stories which are designed to make your feel guilty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

makes sense that some responsibility would fall upon you, as without your funds their actions would not be possible.

similarly, if we donate to american cancer society, we would only get phall for less than half of our donation b/c most of their money gets wasted in huge salaries and advertisements etc. if someone donates to gursevak, the founder bhagat ji, has such gareebi (nimrata) that he wears the same chola everyday and all the work is done by volunteers, so its easy to see how one might get a large seva return on investment.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

makes sense that some responsibility would fall upon you, as without your funds their actions would not be possible.

similarly, if we donate to american cancer society, we would only get phall for less than half of our donation b/c most of their money gets wasted in huge salaries and advertisements etc. if someone donates to gursevak, the founder bhagat ji, has such gareebi (nimrata) that he wears the same chola everyday and all the work is done by volunteers, so its easy to see how one might get a large seva return on investment.

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For example, we give money to a Baba (or organisation), but that baba (or organisation) doesn't use that money for the intended purpose. Because he didn't use it for the intended purpose, you will also be affected by his bad karmic action.

Now, lets say if you make all possible enquiries into where the money will go, you still will be held responsible.

Bhaji, is this what you beleive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bhaji, is this what you beleive?

Brother, I am just asking a question, I want to know what people here, people who actually study Gurbani, practise it think and believe. Read my post,think about it.

What is Gurbanis stand point (PLEASE PLEASE don't just copy and paste Gurbani, go through it, explain your decision.)

Replies like "oh because this sant said this etc" will not wash here.

What I believe is irrelevant at this stage.

There are alot of pakhandis who use gurbani, religious texts to emotionally black mail people, putting the fear of god into them, indirectly, just to fill their pockets. Its happening right now, has been happening and will continue to happen long after I am dead, so in those respects you can also say its pointless to talk about it. But is it really?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

In this case, I was referring to a specific organisation --> http://www.gursevak.com/content/going-seva%C2'>

That being said, you are right that just b/c an organisation is run by gursikhs it doesn't mean that it will be honest.

When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment.

There is no guarantee that a gursevak will be any honest that a cancer charity, regardless of the fact if that person wears the same chola or not. The only thing you have is "hope" that he or she is honest.

Explain this "large seva return on investment" - when did this ever become an investment?

Be Objective about this, not Subjective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this case, I was referring to a specific organisation -->

That being said, you are right that just b/c an organisation is run by gursikhs it doesn't mean that it will be honest.

When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment.

Sure, what does Gurbani have to say on this? please do prove some quotations to share with the sangat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AklI piV@ kY buJIAY AklI kIcY dwnu ] (1245-5, swrMg, mÚ 1)

aklee parhH kai bujhee-ai aklee keechai daan.

Wisdom does not come by reading textbooks; wisdom inspires us to give in charity.

I disagree with the above translations, I have commonly heard the translations of 'aklee keechai daan' to be that u should think before donating, think of the consequences, because in essence, you will be accountable for it.

And yes, this has made me very reluctant to donate, as I am afraid of the unforseen consequences. And I always want to give money to the beggars, but don't because i'm afraid they'll use it for drugs or alcohol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure you can search for Gurbani qoutations by yourself for this topic. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here..

In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views.

You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"...

I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc.

So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that...

vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure you can search for Gurbani qoutations by yourself for this topic. They shouldn't be too hard to find.

Thank you for your smart reply, however I am not asking sangat here for gurbani quotes, this is meant to be a discussion, but it seems like people don't like discussing issues or topics here..

In my initial post which started this thread, I was not asking a question if Gurbani confirms dasvand, etc. I was asking the Sangat here for their views.

You represented your views, with words like "dharma", karma, etc. Infact here is your post "When I say investment, i mean that when you spend time following the dharmic practices you are investing in yourself, in improving your karma, in reducing the ties that tie down your soul from freedom. japping naam is an investment for the same reason. sitting and listening in sangat is as well. All these things that move you closer to God are a true investment"...

I don't want this to turn into one of those typical ego fights. The purpose of this thread is that the Sangat comes together and educates one another, not to show off their Gurbani knowledge, etc.

So, I ask again you again to read my post again and think about it..else please no smart remarks, however I can't stop you for doing that...

vaheguru ji ka khalsa, vaheguru ji ki fateh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

realy confusing thread one minute OP asks for "gurbani standpoint" the next asks for "sangats views"

although i appreciate its hard to know where your money goes does that stop you buying a tv where the commision goes to the salesman who might spend it on alchohol or to the shop owner who might spend it on cigarettes? all in all i you give with an open heart and you are happy then good really doesnt matter what others think!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No gurbani quotes - OK does this prove someone's smart ??

NO- I don't think so. We can all quote, but do we really understand the message in a tuk ?

Anyway, as this thread is just going to get awkward responses because OP insists on strict criteria, then I will give my few cents here.

What is important about the whole of gurbani is that it tells you to use your common sense and logic.

It doesn't say do this or do that, but it simply tells you what to expect if you do this or do that.

The whole purpose is that it makes you think and use your God- given brain!!!

Therefore, if A gives to C via B, and B keeps or pockets the money. Then how the hell can A be blamed and punished for B's actions ????

If you come across a situation where you need to make a choice to give or not, then you should go with your instinct and desire to give. There is no point in giving, if it is really hurting you.

For example, I know of some businessmen who like to prove and show that they give generously and they do go and actually show this. BUT it hurts them to give, so in the back of their minds they plan another scam in their business to get the same amount of money back to them. In this instance they give with one hand and take back more with the other !!!!

If we see a homeless tramp outside on the street asking for a few dollars or pounds, then what do you do ??

First, remember that he has asked, so you have the choice of saying No.

Now, there will be different responses by different people for different reasons.-

1) Will say 'No, i don't have any'' even though they do, but they have lied for an excuse and just can't be bothered.

2) Will say 'later or not yet'' because they cannot be bothered to put their hands in their pockets. - they are not fibbing, but will probably forget ad hope the tramp forgets- Still better than no1 answer though.

3) Will just ignore them blindly and leave the tramp to feel sorry for asking ! - IGNORANCE is NOT Gurmat!!

4) Will swear at them or tell them to get a job or make some other remark OR most commonly REFUSE because they believe the tramp will only purchase some tobacco or liquor instead of food !!

(does this give you the right to assume and dictate ??)

- This is the same as refusing to give to A, because you have no control on what A will do with the money.ie.. whether it will go to B or C, but is that reall your issue ??

5) You will get the kind fellow who wll stop and dig in and give whatever change or few dollars they have.

6) You will get the person that has no change because they only have credit/debit card, but they still feel guilty and they have time to buy the tramp some food from a store a few footsteps away.

This is what they do.... They purchase a meal for the tramp and give it to him.

Out of ALL the above, it is apparent that only 5 and 6 are the true gurmat reactions and attitudes, but sadly very few of us fall into this category.

You can ALL decide for yourself now, what is the best choice to make, even if you have always been a number 1 to 4, but simply not realised the consequences of your approach.

I know for a fact that we have many members, if they are honest enough on here that respond with 1 to 4, because if one stands next to a homeless and watches all the different respones, then 1 to 4 will be the majority by far.

Nex time, maybe we should all just take a moment to think exactly why we give a different response to 5 and 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

agree with lucky really we should be stopping and buying them food if you dont trust them with the money!

but for OPs question if we give money how do we know its not going on alcohol etc when we give to the gurdwara are u 100% sure your money is going on something useful maybe is just lining the committees pockets.....see its the INTENTION that counts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the word investment is really key here. What I think happens in our community a lot is this...

"This Baba looks like a Sant, if I give him £500 then he will bless me and my business/works will come to fruition and I'll get back £10,000, so this is a great investment. Not only that, everyone will see me donating and will respect me."

Gurbani says... "De De, Mangeh Sehsa Goona, Sobh Kare Sansaar" You give and give, but you ask for a 1000 times more and that everyone respects you.

Gurbani also says, "Kot Madhe Ko Virla Sevak, Sagle Biohari. "Out of millions, hardly anyone is a servant (nishkaam seva), all others are mere traders."

So thats why there are loads of Babas, you cant get money unless you're a baba. If Bhagat Puran Singh had travelled the world with a chitta chola and let people matha tek to him...but thankfully he didn't and realised true wealth lies at Gurus feet.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  



  • Topics

  • Posts

    • you need to be doing as many Jaap sahibs as you can to regain your core strength and sabar . Braham Kavach , sukhmani sahib will help you rebuild life without pain of others interference or bad intentions. Waheguru ji is always with you but sometimes when life goes wrong we mistake it for abandonment , perhaps your paat, simran saved you from a much worse result than abandonment . Yes I agree life is hard and this was gutwrenching but keep yourself busy with working on yourself and listening to kirtan/paat , lean on Guru ji for advice and solace because he'll never leave .
    • Once again no earrings or tilaks and no celi topi    painting was done my an artist who had seen Guru Ji.    here is another painting of guru ji with the exact same chola pattern. Either done by the same artist or perhaps another artist copied the above 2 paintings and created this one. Even the baaj is the same, white body and grey wings. The baaj also has the same necklace around it.  Once again no tilak or earrings.    another paintings with the same chola again. 
    • It happened again, I asked waheguru ji to show me the word bride in the hukamnama if he will save my marriage and guru sahib did. But there's still nothing from my husband.... Am I going mad? mÚ 3 ] Third Mehl: rwmklI rwmu min visAw qw binAw sIgwru ] In Raamkalee, I have enshrined the Lord in my mind; thus I have been embellished. gur kY sbid kmlu ibgisAw qw sauipAw Bgiq BMfwru ] Through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, my heart-lotus has blossomed forth; the Lord blessed me with the treasure of devotional worship. Brmu gieAw qw jwigAw cUkw AigAwn AMDwru ] My doubt was dispelled, and I woke up; the darkness of ignorance was dispelled. iqs no rUpu Aiq Aglw ijsu hir nwil ipAwru ] She who is in love with her Lord, is the most infinitely beautiful. sdw rvY ipru Awpxw soBwvMqI nwir ] Such a beautiful, happy soul-bride enjoys her Husband Lord forever.
    • Yes the painting which is said to be a self portrait of Guru Tegh Bahadur ji it has no tilak and no earrings. Same with the Hazur Sahib painting of Guru Gobind Singh ji which the Hazur Sahib Singhs say is a contemporary painting of Guru Ji there are no earrings or tilak in that painting either. 
    • probably wanted to only see jai mata di
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Terms of Use