DJ Bobby Friction refuses to play songs with any mention of caste.

[West London Singh 327]

At the beginning of your post, I was about to call you a traitor.

Then I realized you were being sarcastic.

Well played... :happy2:

And might I add Chakk De Phatte!!! Bruah!!!!! :strong:

Oh but I am being sarcastic towards you paaji.

The Khatris, Aroras and Kamobj Sikhs were shouting 'Chak de phatte' 800 years before us jatts because we jatts were still in Sindh on the borders of Baluchistan before we had even heard of something called Punjab let alone stepped afoot on it. Like I said....without being sarcastic...the ancient warrior Punjab farmer is THEIR history. NOT ours.

Ours is the literary and classic literary history of Punjab.

How much respect would you have for a man that wanted to anihilate any mention of everything mentioned by Shakespeare ?

Bobby Friction wants to anahilite everything mentioned by someone more influential than Shakespeare on a language more ancient than English......900 years more ancient than Hindi........Important because it is the only tonal language in the Indian sub-continent.........One of the most ancient languages in the world.

My point here is directed to the likes of Dal Singh who has the intellectual capability to understand what I'm saying. Bobby Friction has his heart in the right place. But his brain is a hundred miles away.

Moral of the story ? The internet is full of articles of how the Punjabi language is on the list of the world's dying languages. And here we are celebrating how an ill-informed, uneducated, well-paid bufoon of the BBC is being paid to contribute towards it's destruction ? :wow:

[Guest]

I'll stick to my alam lohar,yamla jatt,led zeppelin,black sabbath etc.

I don't really know what you guys are talking about

[luckysingh99 1,191]

NO !!!!!!! :angry2:

I disagree most strongly with everything said in the last few messages above.

Grow up my brothers. Don't you see how the likes of Dal Singh are educated brothers who know Punjabi culture as much as you do ?

Alexander the Great sees the Punjabi farmer farming the field and he sends his famous letter home to his mother in Greece about it.

Do you think it was about us Jatts ? :wow:

No !. At that time, although all of the khatris, aroras and kambojs were Punjabis we Jatts were still nomads in Sindh who had never even heard of Punjab. Thus this ancient warrior Punjab is theirs.........not ours.

When the whole of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh has started saying ' Chake de' do you think it belongs to us jatts ?

No !! Since the beginning of the Persian wheel the khatri and other farmers in Punjab have been shouting in their Punjabi voices to their fellow farm workers in their neighbouring field to pick up the plank of wood and let the water flow in our irrigation system.

The likes of Bobby Friction and Dal Singh know these things. One didn't become clever and the other didn;t become rich by knowing nothing. They know the farming movements and they also know that the current bhangra movements have everything to do with Amitabh Bachan and Sharukh Khan of Bolllywood and very little to do with the genuine bhangra movements practiced by Khatri, Tarkhan, Chamar and Jatt alike in days gone by. If you wanna see the genuine Jatt farming movements to bhangra than see how the old timers do their slow motion stylee movents in wedding videos. Those, what you see as our jatt farming body movements, are the traditional movements that the mirasis did to try and please us. The 'bhangra' of today is nothing but what our unpadh brethren of today have learn't from Bollywood.

Days gone by. This is what this is about. This is about about the virsa of Punjab. We have, as a DJ on the most listened to broadcaster in the world: The BBC.....a DJ that is paid well with the understanding that he knows the virsa of Punjab, but in actual fact knows less than my youngest, who is 4.

My youngest, who is 4, knows that the relevance of the Shakespeare and language and he shouldn't play games with the English language. Presumable Bobby Friction does too.

But Bobby Friction has a brain far less advanced than my son. Bobby Friction is a 30 year old son of a sikh born in west London. My son is a 4 year old born in west london. My son understands the TALIBAN significance of banning the classics that defined the literary and intellectual glory of Punjabi music.

Result ?

My baby son, barely out his nappes = man

Bobby Friction = boy barely out of his nappies but drawing a grown man's wage.

Conclusion ? Why has the BBC got in charge of the folk history of one of the world's most ancient languages....a man with less knowledge about it than a 4 year old just out of his nappies ?

Chamars start singing silly songs about how great it is being a chamar ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance.

Tarkhans, for no reason other than 'caste' start singing silly songs about how great it is being a tarkhan ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance

Bhatras, start singing silly songs about how great it is being a bhatra ? Yes of course ban it. Because it's silly and has no cultural significance.

But how can you justify banning, killing and hiding any mention of Shakespeare ? The jatt mentionings are an integral part of the Punjabi maa boli because of their literary significance. If they are not Taliban who burn books than what are they who burn books ?

You said that very well !!

and put it across so much better than I could.

[Sherdil 351]

Oh but I am being sarcastic towards you paaji.

The Khatris, Aroras and Kamobj Sikhs were shouting 'Chak de phatte' 800 years before us jatts because we jatts were still in Sindh on the borders of Baluchistan before we had even heard of something called Punjab let alone stepped afoot on it. Like I said....without being sarcastic...the ancient warrior Punjab farmer is THEIR history. NOT ours.

Ours is the literary and classic literary history of Punjab.

How much respect would you have for a man that wanted to anihilate any mention of everything mentioned by Shakespeare ?

Bobby Friction wants to anahilite everything mentioned by someone more influential than Shakespeare on a language more ancient than English......900 years more ancient than Hindi........Important because it is the only tonal language in the Indian sub-continent.........One of the most ancient languages in the world.

My point here is directed to the likes of Dal Singh who has the intellectual capability to understand what I'm saying. Bobby Friction has his heart in the right place. But his brain is a hundred miles away.

Moral of the story ? The internet is full of articles of how the Punjabi language is on the list of the world's dying languages. And here we are celebrating how an ill-informed, uneducated, well-paid bufoon of the BBC is being paid to contribute towards it's destruction ? :wow:

Oh...sorry. I thought you were being comical...but you're really serious.

Lol.

[DailyMail 321]

"To ban songs on cast is knocking bhangra, it's not knocking music,

Bhangra is associated and originated from farming,khethi, harvest time and jatts celebrating".

Whilst this is true, and I've read the above posts as well which ring a bell. However, this is missing the point - by about 10,000 miles.

The celebrate castes, to continually sing about "one caste", to constantly mention the bravery of one caste at the expense of others castes is a bigger diservice to history than to to annhilate "something from history more influential than Shakepaere is on English".

"But how can you justify banning, killing and hiding any mention of Shakespeare ? The jatt mentionings are an integral part of the Punjabi maa boli because of their literary significance. If they are not Taliban who burn books than what are they who burn books ?"

When one keeps in mind the fact that most listeners of bhangra music are still Sikhs (most, not all), then the lyrics are even more disturbing, given that they are juxtaposed to the Sikh beliefs. I agree religion and punjabi folk music shouldn't be blurred/mixed, but the reality is that alot of Sikh kids grow up listening to it and find it condescending to the contribution of all strata's of punjabi society. I'm personally aware of many people who don't listen to bhangra because it just harps on about one caste, usually the lyrics of the song are written by a member of that caste as well. It's simply embarressing. Note that the singer may not be a jatt, but that doesn't matter - the songwriter usually is, and thats what counts. Embarressing indeed.

Personally, I have no truck with caste being mentioned per se. For example, Surinder Shinda's "putt jattan de" is a great song. But, when nearly every song today bangs on and on about it, even jatts are turning off.

This isn't about jatts emigrating from Sindh to Punjab 800 years ago, or lifting a plank of wood to irrigate some crops, as interesting as that was to read, old chap. We can all look back on history through rose-tinted glasses (with binoculars and telescopes attached). The reality is, the descendents of those people are commiting suicide, abusing drugs, walk around London looking 5ft 5" with skinny booothi's (not 6ft 4" Arnie types as bhangra songs would lead you to believe). What would happen if a songwriter wrote about the realites of "putt jattan de" today? Remember Ranjit Mani? "chitey chaaderrey jameena gainay, putt sardaran de" - thats the reality. Incidentally, Rannit Mani was critisised for singing about reality. Why? Because we prefer to look through history with rose-tinted glasses (with binoculars and telescopes attached). Lets talk about lifting planks of wood and what not instead.

'Jatt mentionings may have influenced punjabi maa boli'. But if the very mentionings/associations are a threat to future Sikhi practice, then I am more than happy to discard those mentionings. We can't continue to confuse the heck out of our kids by taking them to a gurdwara and teaching them one thing and then listening to some caste-worshipping plonker about how great his ancestors (or caste) were 800 yrs ago and not expect our kids to be confused about it. If the jatts thought that they could happily maintain the status quo and harp on about it expecting other castes to not follow suite, then then where mistaken or naive. If a "shakespeare" equivalent wanted to advance the punjabi language, then go ahead. However, "jatt bhakre baloundey aahvey" is no shakespeare, old chap.

It's for this reason I'll say, well done Bobby Friction. Credit where credit is due.

[Pyara 288]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/30/campaigners-government-caste-discrimination-uk

I personally think the driving force behind this may be to do with the change in legislation some campaigners are pushing in the UK regarding Caste discrimination. We could see caste discrimation as part of the Equality Act 2010. I think BBC/Bobby Friction want to appear ahead of the game.

[Jonny101 4,300]

It is a myth that bhangra = jatts. Jatts doing bhangra only started a few generations ago. My grand parents tell me that when they were growing up in west punjab they never saw a respectable jatt doing bhangra. Instead jatts would hire kanjars and kanjaris to perform bhangra during weddings and other special occasions. Then around the late 30s and 40s jatts were becoming more liberal maybe due to western influence they began to do the the unthinkable i.e. Do the dance of the kanjars and kanjris(bhangra). From then on jatts began to do so much bhangra that this kanjar dance became a permanent part of jatt culture as we see today. Now this dancing business has become so widely accepted that that jatt men do not mind seeing their wife, sister and daughter dance with other men much like kanjris did 75 to 80 years ago.

This is similar to how singing bhangra songs was the exclusive domain of the marasees. But then around the 70s jatts began to sing punjabi songs much like marasees. And now things have gotten so far ahead that today singing bhangra music is now considered part of jatt culture.

[DailyMail 321]

Johnny,

My father says the same as you!

[Sherdil 351]

Lol...I've said this before. People don't come here to learn and share ideas, they come here to hate and argue.

Why so mad anyways? Were your family members the ones hired to dance?

Had I known you guys were still sore, then I would have invited you guys to a new years party.

[dalsingh101 410]

Newly adopted kanjar culture passes for traditional jat culture........lol

[DailyMail 321]

Exactly, kanjar khanna was mentioned on the first page of this thread! It's come full circle now!

[Jonny101 4,300]

Lol...I've said this before. People don't come here to learn and share ideas, they come here to hate and argue.

Why so mad anyways? Were your family members the ones hired to dance?

Had I known you guys were still sore, then I would have invited you guys to a new years party.

Who here is angry? I just stated the facts. Todays jatt culture is nothing like the jatt culture of pre partition Punjab. One might say that thé modern jatt culture has evovled into a semi kanjar culture. They proudly dance as kanjars once did. Jattis today dance on the dance floor during marriages and other occasions with other men as kanjris once did. The reason we no longer see this connection is because most of the Kanjar community moved to Pakistan since most of them were Muslim.

Also judging from your post it seems have been offended by the term kanjar because in east punjab many people use the term kanjar in an insulting way like how we call someone a chuhra if he is dark coloured. But in pre partition Punjab they were an actual caste of people. Like thé marasees they were entertainers. While the profession of the marasees was to entertain by singing, the kanjars would entertain by dancing. The kanjars were pioneers of bhangra. When they would dance infront of jatts, they would make moves which reminded the jatts of farming and jatts would feel entertained looking at the kanjar dance i.e. Bhangra

[Sherdil 351]

Who here is angry? I just stated the facts. Todays jatt culture is nothing like the jatt culture of pre partition Punjab. One might say that thé modern jatt culture has evovled into a semi kanjar culture. They proudly dance as kanjars once did. Jattis today dance on the dance floor during marriages and other occasions with other men as kanjris once did. The reason we no longer see this connection is because most of the Kanjar community moved to Pakistan since most of them were Muslim.

Also judging from your post it seems have been offended by the term kanjar because in east punjab many people use the term kanjar in an insulting way like how we call someone a chuhra if he is dark coloured. But in pre partition Punjab they were an actual caste of people. Like thé marasees they were entertainers. While the profession of the marasees was to entertain by singing, the kanjars would entertain by dancing. The kanjars were pioneers of bhangra. When they would dance infront of jatts, they would make moves which reminded the jatts of farming and jatts would feel entertained looking at the kanjar dance i.e. Bhangra

Bhaji, Kanjars were servants that the Jatts hired. They are the equivalent of bhaiyas today. I don't think you are as dumb as you are pretending to be. Calling someone a kanjar today is not a nice thing. Just like calling someone a Bhappa is derogatory, even though the original meaning had nothing derogatory about it.

So what if they were hired to perform at parties? People are still hired to perform at parties. You can hire dholis, singers and dancers today. Does that mean they are doing Kanjar Khanna? Also, what is this about Jattis dancing with other men? Have you ever been to a party? Guys and girls don't dance with each other at all, unless they are married or related.

Jatts aren't the only people dancing. Parties are a mix of all kinds of people. I was on a Bhangra team with ramgharias, lubanas, kambojs, and banias. Nobody had any issue participating in "jatt culture". Why does it even have to be Jatt culture? It started with Jatts, but today everyone dances because it's fun. It's Punjabi culture.

What about Miss Pooja? She isn't Jatt, but she's the biggest female artist in the industry. By your standards, this makes her the biggest Kanjri as well.

I think maybe you've been called a Bhappa one too many times. I apologize on behalf of any Jatt people that might have said this to you, but you can't malign an entire community based on your bad experiences. Knocking someone else's caste isn't the way to solve the problem. It just creates more animosity.

Go back and read my posts. Have I ever talked down anyone else's caste? Some people keep saying that Jatts are uneducated farmers, but you guys are no better. Carpenters, blacksmiths, street vendors? Nothing to be proud of there either.

[dalsingh101 410]

Go back and read my posts. Have I ever talked down anyone else's caste? Some people keep saying that Jatts are uneducated farmers, but you guys are no better. Carpenters, blacksmiths, street vendors? Nothing to be proud of there either.

Your personal example doesn't detract from the fact that a lot of ignorant haughtiness has emanated from jat quarters for a good while now and has had extremely negative consequences for wider Sikh society. On top of this is the alcoholic, barn dancing jamboree culture which has spread to nonjat Sikhs due to majority influence, wherever jats picked that up from.

It's harder and harder for the caste loving jat to act pompous because, as someone alluded to earlier, they've got serious drug and economic problems which makes grinning, self congratulatory prancing around about your caste and ability to drink copious amounts of alcohol look seriously demented. Maybe certain people need to take it as a hint from Waheguru to try and humble themselves a bit? In Jaap Sahib Guru Gobind Singh Ji gave Waheguru the epithet 'Garb Gunjan' meaning 'destroyer of false pride'. There are important lessons in that.

[Jonny101 4,300]

Bhaji, Kanjars were servants that the Jatts hired. They are the equivalent of bhaiyas today. I don't think you are as dumb as you are pretending to be. Calling someone a kanjar today is not a nice thing. Just like calling someone a Bhappa is derogatory, even though the original meaning had nothing derogatory about it.

So what if they were hired to perform at parties? People are still hired to perform at parties. You can hire dholis, singers and dancers today. Does that mean they are doing Kanjar Khanna? Also, what is this about Jattis dancing with other men? Have you ever been to a party? Guys and girls don't dance with each other at all, unless they are married or related.

Jatts aren't the only people dancing. Parties are a mix of all kinds of people. I was on a Bhangra team with ramgharias, lubanas, kambojs, and banias. Nobody had any issue participating in "jatt culture". Why does it even have to be Jatt culture? It started with Jatts, but today everyone dances because it's fun. It's Punjabi culture.

What about Miss Pooja? She isn't Jatt, but she's the biggest female artist in the industry. By your standards, this makes her the biggest Kanjri as well.

I think maybe you've been called a Bhappa one too many times. I apologize on behalf of any Jatt people that might have said this to you, but you can't malign an entire community based on your bad experiences. Knocking someone else's caste isn't the way to solve the problem. It just creates more animosity.

Go back and read my posts. Have I ever talked down anyone else's caste? Some people keep saying that Jatts are uneducated farmers, but you guys are no better. Carpenters, blacksmiths, street vendors? Nothing to be proud of there either.

Haha you think i am a bhappa? For your info, I was born into a jatt family. But i am proud to say that I lost that caste distinction when with Guru jees apaar kirpa I took amrit and joined the Khalsa brotherhood.

The reason I mentioned the kanjar connection to bhangra is when some jatts here began to claim that bhangra was some how an authentic part of the old jatt culture which of course is a myth. Sadly this transition from the old jatt culture to the modern semi kanjar culture happaned around the time of the partition. Things still were not this bad until the sikh immigrants in the uk took kanjar culture to a whole new level to the modern bhangra culture we see today that is falsely being called authentic jat culture.

Ask your grand parents and they will also confirm what i say. Jatt women during olden times had some sharam. They would never shamelessly dance infront of men like the modern jattis do on the dance floor. During olden times it was kanjris who did this and that too for money. But the modern jatti has lost all sharam and she will do this for free! And beghairat are the men who allow their wife, sister and daughter to dance around like this in front of other men.

If this is the state of jatt culture now, I shudder think how low jatt culture will go in the next 50 years.