~~ Individual cultish perception and the khalsa panth ~~

[Only five]

Chaur sahib is a fly whisk it was a culture throughout the world to get rid of flies off a monarch. In india there are loads of flies, it keeps them away from landing on the saroop. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fly-whisk

Maybe we could install electric fly killers across gurdwaras don't know how people feel about actually killing the fly as opposed to disturbing their fly patterns, we already kill rats and mice in gurdwaras as it is.

In the nanak prakash earlier on in the suraj prakash granth it says the pandit who came to visit guru nanak saw the symbol of a fly whisk on one of his palms and a tambo on the other.

Can you think of any other reason why Chaur Sahib di seva is being done over Maharaj?

[DalbirSingh]

Can you think of any other reason why Chaur Sahib di seva is being done over Maharaj?

Well it's a fly whisk another is as a statement of monarchy, the mughals were quite critical of the sikh gurus adopting a mughal persian darbar system, if you pay attention to minute things you might even see it as a challenge to mughal authority, the entire qazi and shariah system on a whole. To establish a sane authority, just like a hukamnama (royal decree) was taken from a mughal emperor and hukamnama was the word mughals used. They used to call their courts darbars aswell. The fly whisk has always been a sign of monarchy (emperor, kings) and nothing else really, it's added to other hindu gods as a symbol of their power.

African kings still use fly whisks till today. Here are some hindus using it

Here is a mughal fly wisk preserved you can see a mughal court at lal killa in delhi, some are still existent you can see the huge resemblance they have in layout aswell with a sikh darbar perhaps due to the culture of those times

http://www.asianart.com/galloway/d9069.html

Ivory flywhisk (�Chauri�)

India

Mughal, mid 18th century

Carved ivory and baleen

Overall height including baleen: 79 cm

Height of ivory flywhisk handle: 41 cm

[Only five]

Do Sikhi practices like Chaur Sahib di seva stand on their own?

[DalbirSingh]

Can you think of any other reason why Chaur Sahib di seva is being done over Maharaj?

Have a look a this mughal re-actment you can see the flywhisk in use, bunch of snobby ponces who think they are better then everyone else living off the misery of the jizya and zakat taxes while their citizens were oppressed for the luxury of the mughals

Do Sikhi practices like Chaur Sahib di seva stand on their own?

What do you mean on their own?

[Only five]

What do you mean on their own?

Independent practice

[DalbirSingh]

Independent practice

What like a guy on the street moving this flywhisk around nothing thinking they will get spiritual merit? That would be absurd.

It's likely this practice started by the 6th gurus time but that would require gs mann and other academics to look into with evidence rather than my whims of this starting with the creation of the akal takht. But I think this might deserve it's own thread to explore into since some people might have answers but might not be reading this particular topic. You might find something under these mughal history videos http://www.youtube.com/channel/HCO4VzI3VHGXM/videos

[Only five]

So do you think Sikhi practices are independent?

[Only five]

And you don't need to answer my question right now. Take some time and think about it. This is no rat race.

[DalbirSingh]

So do you think Sikhi practices are independent?

Sikhi on the whole is it's one absolute truth faith, other religions have fragments of the truth since this truth existed in ancient times but was corrupted by those who were sent to bring back dharma as dasam granth retells.

And you don't need to answer my question right now. Take some time and think about it. This is no rat race.

If you do have an answer and are asking a question in rheutoric like these fake fat bellied men who claim to be god then please do tell us oh holy one. Otherwise I don't mind discussing it onwards.

[luckysingh99]

So why still keep Chaur Sahib di seva?

That's a real good question worth thinking about !

Personally, I have given it much thought many times and I remember someone telling me that we should treat the shabad guru with the utmost respect.

I remember them mentioning something about Kings and royalty and how they would have people on their sides fanning them to keep them cool and others attending all such seva duties.

From this, - I would think that the Shabad Guru ji is our Maharaj of the Highest Order, much higher and TRUER than any Kings and rulers of lands.

The Maharaj Guruji sits on the Throne or manji sahib just like a King which is also placed on higher platform than the rest of us for Authority and status.

A king or royal would also have a canopy above their head wherever they were on the throne, lets say the throne was taken outside for them to watch games or events ..etc.

This same kind of canopy is also used for Maharaj Guru ji and is the chanani.

A king also had a flywhisk type fan that would be waved over his head to keep away flies, smell or whatever and keep the air fresh and flowing. I think the chaur sahib seva is done in a very similar manner.

When looking at it this way, we realize that the jyot doesn't have the same kind of significance and need to continue with todays lighting and electrics. But the chaur sahib can't be replaced with an electronic device as this would take away the Maharaj authority that Guruji holds.

Anyway, that seems to be my stance on this matter with what I know so far. It would be interesting to get some other views and importances so that we can all continue to learn.