Bhagat Kabeer's shabad

[luckysingh99]

Why do you think Bhagat Kabir ji Maharaj even mentions Bhagat Prahlaad Ji Maharaj in the shabad, what was the point of mentioning the true occurence between Bhagat Prahlaad Ji Maharaj and his father, the king?

WHY ??

I know, that's a good point !!

The 'why' is because Prahlaad was asked and recommended not to devote himself to the Lord !

Wouldn't we say that Kabir ji is in a similar dilemna, even though he is not being asked to worship some other ??

(or is he ??)

[luckysingh99]

its not clear why kabeer ji collected pots. But one thing is clear how he used mala did rather change.

I'm glad that you are making an effort, as this is what one should do with gurbani rather than rely on someone elses translations!

I don't think that he literally collected or came home with new pots every day !

I wonder what Only five makes of this part ???

Or, for that matter, what do you (Only Five) make of the message and essence of this shabad ?? In your own words ??

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

I don't think that he literally collected or came home with new pots every day !

I wonder what Only five makes of this part ???

yes his point of view is required .

[Only five]

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio

Raag Bilawal--Ang-856 (Bhagat Bani)

Those that have a hard time understanding punjabi..........i'll take the time out later to write up the main points of the katha in english done by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj.

[luckysingh99]

http://www.gurmatveechar.com/audio

Raag Bilawal--Ang-856 (Bhagat Bani)

Those that have a hard time understanding punjabi..........i'll take the time out later to write up the main points of the katha in english done by Sant Baba Gurbachan Singh Ji Maharaj.

I think it would be a good idea to give your own interpretations and then look into the katha later.

I did request 'in your own words'.

Just quoting the points that the very wise have made is not exactly what we were expecting.

In my opinion, If one trys to feel their own essence and then see what the wise make of it, then a sikh progresses much better on their learning curve and this helps make their spiritual development much stronger.

I will also forward my own personal interpretaton to help contribute towards some shared learning.

[Only five]

Before listening to the katha I had thought about the shabad and where ever I did not understand clearly, I depended on Sant ji`s katha. As stated before Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj is calling Prahlaad ji Maharaj, Sant Prahlaad Ji as he earned the title. Furthermore as I thought, Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj had received Naam from Sri Vaheguru Ji Maharaj.

The doubt you had about the pot is cleared up in the katha, where Bhagat Kabir Ji Maharaj is using the pot to feed the Saints everyday. Bhagat ji`s mother is bad mouthing Bhagat ji and Bhagat Raamanand Ji Maharaj and at this point Bhagat ji enters. Bhagat ji comes into the house and responds to his mother by saying:

ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥

सरब सुखा का एकु हरि सुआमी सो गुरि नामु दइओ ॥

Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o.

O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name.

ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥

संत प्रहलाद की पैज जिनि राखी हरनाखसु नख बिदरिओ ॥३॥

Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3||

He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3||

ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥

घर के देव पितर की छोडी गुर को सबदु लइओ ॥

Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o.

I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪॥

कहत कबीरु सगल पाप खंडनु संतह लै उधरिओ ॥४॥४॥

Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4||

Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4||

And please don`t go off track here and start a discussion on Bhagat Raamanand ji Maharaj.

ਰਾਮਾਨੰਦ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਰਮਤ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ॥

रामानंद सुआमी रमत ब्रहम ॥

Rāmānanḏ su▫āmī ramaṯ barahm.

Raamaanand's Lord and Master is the All-pervading Lord God.

ang 1195

[luckysingh99]

Thank you for taking some time out to forward the contribution.

I appreciate you responding promptly.

I personally found this one quite interesting since Kabir ji brings in a semi-dialogue (like sidh-ghosht), but he also highlights his love for satguru which is much more than for his own mother in a way !!

He has many shabads that are anti-ritual or advise and teach against empty practices...etc.. but they always carry a lot of strength with the way he has little riddles and metaphors.

Just looking at the begiining of this (Ang 856)

ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

The beginning of this shabad is quite interesting and the question of pots arises as I mentioned earlier!

Prof Sahib Singh Ji posed a few questions.... Is Kabir Ji really THAT RICH..that he can afford to buy a fresh NEW pot and spend his entire day embellishing it, polishing it.and then only to DISCARD IT the very next morning for a BRAND NEW one ??

Do they have that kind of disposable income ?

If they don’t then why does his mother not ask him to stop wasting money on pots so that they can have save a little since the income from weaving is not being helped by Kabir. ??

It did become a little puzzling for me at first but then I started thinking about what the ‘surface’ of ths shabad is outlining.-

It’s not telling us to go against our parent’s wishes and it’s not about telling us to earn the bucks that we are supposed to be earning honestly either.

I think the bigger picture on the surface highlights the love of his mother for maya or the world illusion and for Kabir ji’s love for ‘inward attainment’ and the Lord and his name ‘Hari’

I remembered another shabad, I honestly cannot recall which- But it used the 'gaggar'or pot as a metaphor for the body and the water it contained represented the mind !!

The beginning of this shabad may also be referring to the body and not literally a gaggar.!!!

We humans under the influence of ego, endearment, lust, anger..etc... act to serve our own bodies or gaggar. This is like the embellishing and decorating in the gaggar sense, because just the outer vessel is influenced and not the water inside...... (gets real deep !!)

Interestingly on the same Ang 856 and further down in the next shabad, Kabir ji mentions

ਅਮਰ ਜਾਨਿ ਸੰਚੀ ਇਹ ਕਾਇਆ ਇਹ ਮਿਥਿਆ ਕਾਚੀ ਗਗਰੀ ॥

Amar jān sancẖī ih kā▫i▫ā ih mithi▫ā kācẖī gagrī.

Believing this body to be immortal, I pampered it, but it is a fragile and perishable vessel. (like th gaggar pot!)

Here we can clearly see that the vessel is the body/gaggar !

With this in mind, the previous tuk is talking about- getting up early, bathing or washing and then coming out fresh with a new clean body/vessel......from what I personally gather, and the message becomes a little clearer when you think a little harder !

I appreciate your mention of the saints and this would also hold strong.

But having some ambigous element that doesn't divert from the core message makes it even more fascinating for me !

Don't get me wrong, we can't be disagreeing with Sant ji !!

But we know that sometimes their interpretations are kept on the 'Core' of the message and this stops sangat drifting and paying attention to metaphors that fall a little outside of this core.

What do you think ??

.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

He (Kabir) does not do think about ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ weaving and is completely absorbed in Hari.

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥

Hamāre kul ka▫une rām kahi▫o.

Who in our family has ever chanted the Name of the Lord?

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Jab kī mālā la▫ī nipūṯe ṯab ṯe sukẖ na bẖa▫i▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.

Ever since this worthless son of mine began chanting with his mala, we have had no peace at all! ||1||Pause||

ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਇਓ ॥

Sunhu jiṯẖānī sunhu ḏirānī acẖraj ek bẖa▫i▫o.

Listen, O my sisters-in-law, a wondrous thing has happened!

ਸਾਤ ਸੂਤ ਇਨਿ ਮੁਡੀਂਏ ਖੋਏ ਇਹੁ ਮੁਡੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਮੁਇਓ ॥੨॥

Sāṯ sūṯ in mudīʼne kẖo▫e ih mudī▫ā ki▫o na mu▫i▫o. ||2||

This boy has ruined our weaving business. Why didn't he simply die? ||2||

Looking again, and just to simplify a little-

ਹਮਾਰੇ ਕੁਲ ਕਉਨੇ ਰਾਮੁ ਕਹਿਓ ॥

ਜਬ ਕੀ ਮਾਲਾ ਲਈ ਨਿਪੂਤੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਸੁਖੁ ਨ ਭਇਓ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥

Who has ever said "Ram" in this house and in our ancestors?

Ever since he picked up the mala, there is no peace to be found

ਸੁਨਹੁ ਜਿਠਾਨੀ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਦਿਰਾਨੀ ਅਚਰਜੁ ਏਕੁ ਭਇਓ ॥

ਸਾਤ ਸੂਤ ਇਨਿ ਮੁਡੀਂਏ ਖੋਏ ਇਹੁ ਮੁਡੀਆ ਕਿਉ ਨ ਮੁਇਓ ॥੨॥

Listen sister-in-laws to another extraordinary thing

He has also left and ruined the weaving business in the process, why didn't he just die?

This is telling us firstly that Kabir ji’s mother is not enlightened and neither is she

religious.

She is very upset that her son is religious and focused on the inward spiritual

rather than the outward worldly. She wants him to focus on his weaving job but Kabir is the ਨਿਪੂਤ, worthless son, who is focused completely on God and His bhagati. His weaving business is suffering for that, and his mother is losing patience with him day by day.

"Ever since, he has picked up a mala (and began bhagati), I can find no peace." she says.

ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥

Sarab sukẖā kā ek har su▫āmī so gur nām da▫i▫o.

O mother, the One Lord, the Lord and Master, is the source of all peace. The Guru has blessed me with His Name.

ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥

Sanṯ parahlāḏ kī paij jin rākẖī harnākẖas nakẖ biḏri▫o. ||3||

He preserved the honor of Prahlaad, and destroyed Harnaakhash with his nails. ||3||

ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥

Gẖar ke ḏev piṯar kī cẖẖodī gur ko sabaḏ la▫i▫o.

I have renounced the gods and ancestors of my house, for the Word of the Guru's Shabad.

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪॥

Kahaṯ Kabīr sagal pāp kẖandan sanṯėh lai uḏẖāri▫o. ||4||4||

Says Kabeer, God is the Destroyer of all sins; He is the Saving Grace of His Saints. ||4||4||

Now kabir comes in and says:-(my own little clarfication with additions..etc..)

ਸਰਬ ਸੁਖਾ ਕਾ ਏਕੁ ਹਰਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਸੋ ਗੁਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਦਇਓ ॥

The master of all peace is Hari (mother you are looking for peace elsewhere when it can only be found in Hari), whose name has been given to me by my guru (Guru Ramanand or Lord's grace)

,

ਸੰਤ ਪ੍ਰਹਲਾਦ ਕੀ ਪੈਜ ਜਿਨਿ ਰਾਖੀ ਹਰਨਾਖਸੁ ਨਖ ਬਿਦਰਿਓ ॥੩॥

(Name of) the one who preserved the honour of sant Prehlaad, and killed Harnaksh with his claws.

ਘਰ ਕੇ ਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਰ ਕੀ ਛੋਡੀ ਗੁਰ ਕੋ ਸਬਦੁ ਲਇਓ ॥

ਕਹਤ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸਗਲ ਪਾਪ ਖੰਡਨੁ ਸੰਤਹ ਲੈ ਉਧਰਿਓ ॥੪॥੪

I have left the god and ancestors of my house, and I have taken the word of my guru.

Kabir says that He is the destroyer our sins, and as saints saves us (liberates us).

The deep core message of the whole shabad is what Only five ji hinted on earlier.- It's the analogy with having love for your parent vs The Lord.

In Prahlaad story, it's more about having belief and faith for the powerful Lord Vs Having faith in your poweful King father or God Vs The King's EGO.

In this shabad it's about having love for -Naam jap and the Lord Vs Having love for your mother's love of maya attachments OR Love for Inward Lord Vs Love for Maya..

All errors and interpretations beside from srigranth.org are mine and I stand corrected.

[luckysingh99]

Deleted- duplicate

[gurdeepsinghjohal]

22G tusi v sant ho gaye, bahut vadiya

[Only five]

Thank you for taking some time out to forward the contribution.

I appreciate you responding promptly.

I personally found this one quite interesting since Kabir ji brings in a semi-dialogue (like sidh-ghosht), but he also highlights his love for satguru which is much more than for his own mother in a way !!

He has many shabads that are anti-ritual or advise and teach against empty practices...etc.. but they always carry a lot of strength with the way he has little riddles and metaphors.

Just looking at the begiining of this (Ang 856)

ਨਿਤ ਉਠਿ ਕੋਰੀ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਆਨੈ ਲੀਪਤ ਜੀਉ ਗਇਓ ॥

Niṯ uṯẖ korī gāgar ānai līpaṯ jī▫o ga▫i▫o.

Every day, he rises early, and brings a fresh clay pot; he passes his life embellishing and glazing it.

ਤਾਨਾ ਬਾਨਾ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਸੂਝੈ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਰਸਿ ਲਪਟਿਓ ॥੧॥

Ŧānā bānā kacẖẖū na sūjẖai har har ras lapti▫o. ||1||

He does not think at all of worldly weaving; he is absorbed in the subtle essence of the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||

The beginning of this shabad is quite interesting and the question of pots arises as I mentioned earlier!

Prof Sahib Singh Ji posed a few questions.... Is Kabir Ji really THAT RICH..that he can afford to buy a fresh NEW pot and spend his entire day embellishing it, polishing it.and then only to DISCARD IT the very next morning for a BRAND NEW one ??

Do they have that kind of disposable income ?

If they don’t then why does his mother not ask him to stop wasting money on pots so that they can have save a little since the income from weaving is not being helped by Kabir. ??

Can you point to which words in Gurmukhi are saying that Bhagat ji is bringing a new pot and where Bhagat ji discards it?