Guramit Singh EDL

[VanHelsingh]

If anything the Sufis are a corruption of Islam and the likes of Aurangzeb were true Muslims who followed the Sharia to the letter. Having Islamic names for God does not mean that the Guru Granth Sahib endorses Islam, read the Awaal Allah Noor Upaiya shabad which many Muslims like Nusrat Ali Khan used to sing because they thought it endorses their belief in Allah. In fact that shabad by Bhagat Kabirji negates the Allah of the Quran by describing all beings as being equal and thatr Allah exists in his creation, which is against the teachings of the Quran.

I was under that assumption as well. The "true" Muslims are those who believe the Islamic way is the only way, and even certain Islamic interpretations on the fringes of the faith are apostacy outright. I would think Sufis as well as Muslims saints who feature in Sikh scripture are seen as fallen Muslims, and certainly not the kind of religious figures mainstream Islam seeks to endorse in-case such free spirits begin to give the general Islamic populace any ideas, lol.

So if anything the Muslims we find palatable are as far from adhering to Islam as most of us on this website!

The likes of Aurangzeb and his predecessors may have committed atrocities on an unimaginable scale, but they did only what they believed their religion prescribed a true Muslim should do.. Now you can either admire their love and their desire to please Allah, as much as any Sikh would go to any length to seek the favour of his Guru (without crossing that line the Turks did), or you can condemn them because what they did isn't in-line with what Sikhi and most people with a fraction of humanity would suggest is human.

As much as many amongst Sikhs like to play the "He's not a REAL Sikh" game by judging who follows how much of what in Sikhi, there's also many in Islam who would argue quite forcefully that unless you aren't actively seeking to convert non-Muslims and spreading the faith (plus everything else such endeavours entail no matter where on the scale of acceptability) you aren't actually a true Muslim, as much as we say those who are unbaptised are not actually Sikhs.

Although taking all the above into account I haven't got time for the EDL or their Sikh poster boy Guramit Singh. History has taught us that Sikhs have been manipulated by devious puppet masters, even though we like to kid ourselves we're in control and have our destiny in our own hands. This is another example of such shenanigans but in our desperation to strike a blow at certain Muslims a hell of a lot of damage is being done.

If Guramit Singh has anything about him he'll stop hanging around with his barely literate chums, become a Gursikh, and join an organisation like SAS and do the honourable thing from a Gurmat perspective, which is to educate when information and guidance is needed, and protect and fight when he's been backed into a corner.

[ElusiveFighter]

There are countless examples to disprove that your personal hate of 'Islam' is not derived from the mat of the Guru.

But I will correct one specific and ignorant that has been made be 2 people here, that Aurengzab was a 'true' Muslim.

Let's see what Guru Gobind Singh has to say about that:

"Aurangzeb! I did not know that you are a perjurer; that you are mere worshipper of wealth and breaker of your faith.

You neither follow the teachings of Islam nor you understand its meaning. You do not know the ways of the Lord nor do you have any faith in the Prophet Mohammed.

Any believer of his faith, will not look here and there (while fulfilling) his own promises.

This man (Aurangzeb) who swears by the Koran as well as by One God, cannot be trusted even equivalent of a speck of sand.

(So now) if you swear hundred times on the Koran, I do not have trust in you even equivalent to a drop of water."

(Zafarnama)

If our Guru Sahiban saw ‘Islam’ as evil, they would never have let Muslim kirtanees, Muslim dhadees, Muslim Kavis, Muslim holy men, Muslim warriors, Muslim business men, Muslim householders... play such an intricate part in their darbaar, their lives and their battles.

Did Guru Nanak not bless Babbar with rule?

Did Guru Ram Das (Bibi Amro) not receive land for Darbar Sahib from Akbar?

Did Guru Hargobind Sahib not save Jahangir from a Tiger attack?

Did Guru Gobind Singh not help Bahadur Shah to Kingship....?

These are few, amongst many examples of the complex relations the Guru Sahiban had with the Muslims rulers. Where they were civil, they were blessed, where they were tyrannical they were punished.

Even under Maharaj Ranjit Singhs Khalsa raaj, Madrasas of the highest order (Muslim schools of learning) operated freely in the Sikh kingdom. It is said that a calligrapher tried to sell a beautifully copy of the Quran to Ranjit Singh’s Foreign Minister Fakir Azizuddin who wouldn’t buy it. Ranjit Singh overheard the argument, took the Holy Quran, kissed it and bought it for a price in excess of what is being asked. When asked why he replied “God gave me one eye – so that I could see all religions with the same eye”.

In Sarbloh Granth, there is even an ode written on the bravery of Ali, known amongst pious Muslims as the ‘Lion of God’.

Aside from the references to corrupt Qazis and Pandits, there is no vilification of Islam.

Re your comments of Sufism being corrupted, that is ridiculous. Sufism is an ocean of thought and practices, which foundational commonality. All take their lineage from the Prophet Muhammed, and Sufism has existed in many countries for many hundreds of years i.e. Nigeria, Indonesia, Iran, Central Asia etc.

Finally, why would the Guru have gone to the extent of ‘helping’ Muslims, if their path was one of Evil as you seem to think? You don’t have to bash others to love your own, Gurmat is the brightest light in the darkness, but other paths have their own level of light, depending on the devotion of the individual follower, it is individuals who our Guru’s helped or targeted i.e those with their eyes, ears and minds open. It is individuals that Pita Ji looks at know as his Khalsa, not the collective that is making a mockery of the Khalsa.

Before you reply with an attempt to defend your ego (honour), try and think and contemplate a little about all this. Is it worth going against the truths and path of the Guru, only to justify your own hate, ignorance and stereotypes..?

Target and punish those crooks who commit evil, be them Catholic Priest, the biggest International Paedophile rings who are based in the west (westerners), Eastern European gangs who own the Sex Slave industry in Europe (inc thousands of child victims) or members of the Pakistani community who abuse girls... but please don’t use these crimes committed by humanity to fuel your personal propaganda campaign against all Islam.

Advice Guru Sahiban give to their Muslim brethren, to free themselves from the shackles of evolved ritual and hypocrisy and find their true deen again:

"To be called a Muslim is difficult.
If one be really so, then he may get himself called a Muslim.
First, let him savor the religion of the Prophet as sweet; then, let his pride of his possessions be scraped away.
Becoming a true Muslim, a disciple of the faith of Mohammed, let him put aside the delusion of death and life.
As he submits to God's Will, and surrenders to the Creator, he is rid of selfishness and conceit.
And when he is merciful to all beings, only then shall he be called a Musalman”

O slave of the inaccessible Lord God Allah,
forsake thoughts of worldly entanglements.
Become the dust of the feet of the humble fakeers,
and consider yourself a traveller on this journey.
O saintly dervish, you shall be approved in the Court of the Lord. ||1||
Let Truth be your prayer, and faith your prayer-mat.
Subdue your desires, and overcome your hopes.
Let your body be the mosque, and your mind the priest.
Let true purity be God's Word for you. ||2||
Let your practice be to live the spiritual life.
Let your spiritual cleansing be to renounce the world and seek God.
Let control of the mind be your spiritual wisdom, O holy man;
meeting with God, you shall never die again. ||3||
Practice within your heart the teachings of the Koran and the Bible;
restrain the ten sensory organs from straying into evil.
Tie up the five demons of desire with faith, charity and contentment,
and you shall be acceptable. ||4||
Let compassion be your Mecca, and the dust of the feet of the holy your fast.
Let Paradise be your practice of the Prophet's Word.
God is the beauty, the light and the fragrance.
Meditation on Allah is the secluded meditation chamber. ||5||
He alone is a Qazi, who practices the Truth.
He alone is a Haji, a pilgrim to Mecca, who purifies his heart.
He alone is a Mullah, who banishes evil; he alone is a saintly dervish,
who takes the Support of the Lord's Praise. ||6||
Always, at every moment, remember God, the Creator within your heart.
Let your meditation beads be the subjugation of the ten senses.
Let good conduct and self-restraint be your circumcision. ||7||
You must know in your heart that everything is temporary.
Family, household and siblings are all entanglements.
Kings, rulers and nobles are mortal and transitory;
only God's Gate is the permanent place. ||8||
First, is the Lord's Praise; second, contentment;
third, humility, and fourth, giving to charities.
Fifth is to hold one's desires in restraint.
These are the five most sublime daily prayers. ||9||
Let your daily worship be the knowledge that God is everywhere.
Let renunciation of evil actions be the water-jug you carry.
Let realization of the One Lord God be your call to prayer;
be a good child of God - let this be your trumpet. ||10||
Let what is earned righteously be your blessed food.
Wash away pollution with the river of your heart.
One who realizes the Prophet attains heaven. Azraa-eel,
the Messenger of Death, does not cast him into hell. ||11||
Let good deeds be your body, and faith your bride.
Play and enjoy the Lord's love and delight.
Purify what is impure, and let the Lord's Presence be your religious tradition.
Let your total awareness be the turban on your head. ||12||
To be Muslim is to be kind-hearted,
and wash away pollution from within the heart.
He does not even approach worldly pleasures;
he is pure, like flowers, silk, ghee and the deer-skin. ||13||
One who is blessed with the mercy and compassion of the Merciful Lord,
is the manliest man among men.
He alone is a Shaykh, a preacher, a Haji, and he alone is God's slave,
who is blessed with God's Grace. ||14||
The Creator Lord has Creative Power; the Merciful Lord has Mercy.
The Praises and the Love of the Merciful Lord are unfathomable.
Realize the True Hukam, the Command of the Lord,
O Nanak; you shall be released from bondage, and carried across. ||15||3||12||

[VanHelsingh]

Fair enough Elusive Fighter Ji. I just think you're downplaying a lot of the 'khot' in the hearts of some Muslims who wish Sikhs nothing but ill, although I appreciate that's their personal agenda and not necessarily how their religion recommends they behave. It's just so many of them do it, and always justify it with "Islam says we can". I'm always up for revising my opinions when necessary. I shall go away and contemplate some more! :biggrin2:

[thesoldier]

Karni Nama

While Guru Nanak was in Mecca and Medina, Qazi Rukan Din asked, True King, tell us your prophecy again. Tell us how you will unfold the future?. Your name is Nanak Nirankari and you are from the Nation of the Lord. What are the instructions for the future?

Nanak replied to Rukan Din, listen to the true answer Whosoever reads or listens to this shall be content. All doubts shall be removed.

In the tenth dress shall reside The Lord. I shall fight many battles against Emperor Aurangzeb.

I shall then send a letter of victory (Zafarnamah) to Aurangzeb with my Singh (Bhai Daya Singh).

Upon seeing him, Power shall lessen and he shall forget his devious ways.

Emperor Aurangzeb will be overwhelmed by the sight of Daya Singh and will start to tremble.

The Khalsa been resurrected! Good has not been done by Gobind Singh? I shall leave having given a kingdom; My name being Gobind

There will be a time when the Khalsa shall forget the teachings I have given them. Sikhi will only be left in name. Many Wars shall occur.

I will have to return again to resurrect the Khalsa. They shall reside in the Punjab.

I shall make people from all four corners into one. They will be in Majjha; They will raid Lahore.

They will bring Potohaar to justice; They will take Peshawar.

They will set up a cantonment at Attock and then open the Khyber Pass.

They will establish a kingdom in Kabul and then take Ghazni. After bringing Hazaara to justice they will march on to Kandahar.

After taking Balack and Buckaara, they will conquer Sindh and Baloch.

After gaining victory over these lands they shall govern all the people.

Mecca, Medina and Rome shall tremble. They shall gain victory in battle over south and west India.

The Guru's Army shall sit at the throne of Delhi. Umbrellas of kingship shall sway over their heads. All shall be content.

From East to West all shall be conquered. None shall challenge the Khalsa. All humanity shall become one.

In the kingdom of the True King, Satjug shall be established.

The Khalsa Panth shall rule. The arrows of death shall not touch them.

The Army of the Timeless shall grow and spread like locusts.

All shall wear vestments of blue; no one else shall be seen. Listen Qazi Rukan Din, The Singhs shall rule.

The Unholy Sheikhs shall be destroyed. Pirs and Mureeds shall be no more.

All shall recite the one name of the Lord. Then he shall come himself.

The untrue shall not be able to see his glory. All humanity shall unite and he will distribute provinces.

The Earth shall give food and the mountains shall give diamonds.

Fruits of many kinds there shall be, upon the sight of the timeless. All shall recite VAHEGURU and achieve salvation.

Many Dharamsalas (places of discussion) shall exist. The Koran and the Mosques shall vanish.

The Lord shall manifest himself in body (as man).

He will make all utter VAHEGURU. All Singhs shall flock under his banner.

All shall know him as the True One. He will sit at the throne of Delhi.

He will establish a kingdom of peace and no enemies will remain.

Wherever the Khalsa turns his eye, the 14 realms shall tremble.

For 14,000 years, this kingdom shall remain. Wealth will be collected and food shall be distributed.

The naked and the starving shall all receive; no one will go without.

Sayeth Nanak, Rukan Din, This is how it shall be. Whosoever reads the Karni Namah, his love with The Lord shall grow.

The Word of the Timeless shall prevail. Those uttering falsehood shall not remain.

After the effect of The Akaal, forests, mountains and the world shall see salvation.

The Khalsa shall Rule. There will be no-one left to oppose them. All who are lost shall gain the safety of the Khalsa

======================================================

To understand what islam is you need to talk to ex-muslims (who are punishable by death under laws of sharia -- i wonder why, is it because they will expose islam?)

Ex-moslem must watch from 1:25

there has been over 20,000 terror attacks since 9/11 over 12 years ago

source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Moslems are allowed to lie to cover their religion from being exposed. How many of you knew this? huh

Question:

Are Muslims permitted to lie?

Summary Answer:

Muslim scholars teach that Muslims should generally be truthful to each other, unless the purpose of lying is to "smooth over differences."

There are two forms of lying to non-believers that are permitted under certain circumstances, taqiyya and kitman. These circumstances are typically those that advance the cause Islam - in some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them.

source: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/011-taqiyya.htm

Who remembers after 9/11 uk muslims like pakistanis became indoctrinated by hate, and terrorist attacks increased? and how many have been arrest and terrorist plots foiled. IMO muslims saw bin laden as their savior to revive islam. If you do some research many muslims see bin laden as their forthcoming imam mahdi (who is going to be a terrorist imo) , as he will come to kill non-muslims,

After 9/11 Palestinian muslims were screaming with joy of the news and sharing sweets, Same with many uk muslims that didnt shy from saying they support bin laden.

Should we hate a group of patriots who see the changing of their country to becoming islam friendly. Arabs buying british universities, police forces, LSE, news channels, news papers. Halal meat being sold silently for decades without labels or us knowing, 100 plus sharia courts dealing with family, marriage disputes etc. Why should there be sharia law when we have british law?

We may not see it now as the muslim numbers are low (uk around 4-5%), but you only have to look at countries where they are the majority, like Bangladesh where extremists were sentence to death who supported pakistan.

46 more dead in Bangladesh as Muslims continue to riot over death sentence for Islamic supremacist leader. Facebook has been blocked in Bangladesh to prevent word getting out about the riots and murder of Hindus after Islamic war criminals were sentenced to death.

graphic corpse warning at link

source: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2013/03/bloody-jihad-gone-wild-in-bangladesh-targeting-hindu-temples-and-women-46-more-dead.html

[thesoldier]

recent EDL march in Manchester, i may not like the chavs types that make up the numbers for the EDL marches, but theres no mistaking the message of the EDL leaders is a noble and just one

what is it some sikhs fear if some sikhs support EDL or parties like UKIP. The fear that once they kick out the muslims they may come after us?

I dont fear that at all as racists will always be a minority. On the other hand moslims in the uk will out number us all one day and they will go back to converting us all by force like they have done in yesteryear

Mohammed is now the most popular name for baby boys ahead of Jack and Harry
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1324194/Mohammed-popular-baby-boys-ahead-Jack-Harry.html#ixzz2MpvX4yPS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

sikhs with muslim EDL march

[ElusiveFighter]

You have totally ignored all historical and Gurbani references I have provided and tried to quote a Karni Nama 'English Translation' to justify your hate. Karni Nama and Raj Nama appear in Sau Sakhi. They talk of 'Khalsa Raj' as the time of the previous Dharams Raj will end, this is what the quotes you have mentioned allude to. They talk of removing 'corrupt' Quazis, they have already been addressed in Gurbani. These prophecies don't just mean Khalsa will prevail over Islam, but over all mankind and all faiths. The response was more directed towards Mecca etc because in the story, the person answer the question was a Muslim. Rome (Christiantiy) is also mentioned here, you forge to highlight that, I am sure some of yuor EDL mates go to Church (although I doubt it, the drunken racist yobs).

I bet it breaks your heart to know that the Master of Miri and Piri, Guri Hargobind Sahib, built a Masjid for the Muslims in Gurdaspur.

It is the same people who the Karni Nama talks about (Akaal Purkh ki Fauj), who have maintained, restored and given this precious sign of the Guru's benevolence back to the Muslims. You are obvioulsy missing a trick here my friend.

According to your train of thought, our Guru must have built a house of worhip for a false and evil religion, which was started by an evil man. Be it on your head and those who follow your misguided hate to clash heads with my Guru, it will be your head that eventually get's smashed.

In any case, I do ardaas Parmatma guides you and brings you to his charan kamal. This response is more so for those members of the audience that you may have possibly lead astray.

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Guru_ki_maseet

[thesoldier]

^ like you totally ignored all islamic quotes /references i gave you.

Anonymous sikhs group on facebook, Guramit, good man