Nirgun And Sargun

[tuhintuhin]

In simple language,

Nirgun saroop - invisible - spirituality

Sargun saroop - visible - rehat

He is the creator of his "sargun" form and resides within the creation. It means that Nirankar Himself manifested his invisible form to his visible form.

[N30S1NGH]

To read more about about nirgun roop- please go over jaap sahib, sri akaal ustat, mool mantar, and sri sukhmani sahib especially 21st ashtpadi.

[tuhintuhin]

one can't find the limit of limitless.......

waheguru ji this was in context to the other thread that got closed...little explanation on 2 different opinions being debated, coming from 2 different angles.........

[GPS]

In sargun saroop he is in each of us. But we have to transcend maya by bhagti and then can blend with Him.

Once you do that there is no difference between him and you.

[Only five]

Sargun saroop - visible - rehat

Can you explain what Satgur Parsad means. What is Satgur? Who is Satgur and how many different forms does Satgur have? How many of these forms is visible? Does Gurbani call this creation as Satgur or a form of Vaheguru? Does the Mool Mantar help in defining Sargun and Nirgun? If so, how does Mool Mantar help?

By saying Vaheguru is everywhere and in everything then is that any of the two or both (Sargun and Nirgun) or is it none according to Gurbani? Is Sargun permanent and what about Nirgun is it permanent? Does Sri Sukhmani Sahib answer this question for us or do we need to look else where in other religious scriptures?

What does Vaheguru being everywhere really mean? In essence even in creation there is nowhere so where is everywhere? In essence there is no everything, so what is he in? Once again is Sargun permanent or creation?

Contemplate over Gurbani and see what Satguru is saying. Indra consulted many on what is atma, but at the end it was Satgur who gave the answer and Indra became mukht after falling at the feet of Satgur.

[tuhintuhin]

^^ waheguru ji,,,,,,,every individual has different spiritual (bhagti) & knowlegde (gyan) level depending on previous karam, sewa, simran, paap, punn and Guru sahib's kirpa......so ...........coming to your questions.......I don't prefer induldging in arguements to prove myself right and others wrong ..........we all know the answers......even if I do give any explanation, members would come and say no that's wrong......go read gurbani, you sant follower you this that...........if one says the definition is same for everyone, no............like doctor doesn't give the same medicine to every patient, but based on his physical condition & requirement ..it's different for everyone..........Gurbani is not limited to any one meaning...every tuk has multiple meanings.....so I might go with one and you might go with other based on individual spiritual level, gyaan & Guru sahib's kirpa..........................you are very welcome to elaborate and share the gyaan......

[N30S1NGH]

Very nice 5 min katha of full meaning of Ikongkar Satgurparsad by bhai balbir singh ddt tividale UK. Must listen...!!!!

[Only five]

like doctor doesn't give the same medicine to every patient, but based on his physical condition & requirement ..it's different for everyone..........Gurbani is not limited to any one meaning...every tuk has multiple meanings.....so I might go with one and you might go with other based on individual spiritual level, gyaan & Guru sahib's kirpa..........................you are very welcome to elaborate and share the gyaan......

Then you should not have started this thread in the first place.

It is obvious you started this thread to lay out what you believe in sargun and nirgun and once another goes deeper into what sargun and nirgun is then back off and make a political statement like you did above.

Gurbani has multiple meanings!! Here is a short Sakhi for you. Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj asked the Singhs to repeat all of Satguru Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji Maharaj in a split second before he takes off on his horse. All were shocked and were much like you how can that be done. So one person started and said..............Ik Onkar Satgur Parsad........and Sri Guru Gobind Singh Sahib ji Maharaj got on his horse and took off. How many different medicines did you see now?

Due to your personal failings you like to think Gurbani is relative and for the same reason when explaining sargun and nirgun they explain in relative terms.

It would have been a nice discussion both would have learned something, but I guess politics is always there to save everyone.

[tuhintuhin]

^^ waheguru ji this thread was started because other was closed....the meanings in the first post were related to the closed thread where N30Singh ji was looking at the whole issue from nirgun (sarab-vyapakta) aspect.......and some members were looking at it from rehat maryada and adab aspect.........both aspects were right to me.....I personally don't favour her doings.....but I was talking about the different angels where the thoughts were coming from......and this difference was because of the different spiritual level.....for example.....same hukumnama appeals differently to people based on their own (avastha - low or high) different wishes, karams, questions and guidance they need.....

....as I said you can come forward and share the meanings.....I have not asked this thread to be closed after I am done.....everybody wants a nice discussion, not personal attacks...........what happens is instead of sharing and respecting others views....members are being attacked as a person which ruins the discussion .............

it's not my "sargun" "nirgun" meanings that I invented from myself.......that's what it means......obviously, not limited to that, as Kam1825 ji said in one other thread "sagar nu gagar ch band nahin kar sakde"........ iand you, instead of sharing the deeper meanings, are just questioning others so that you can prove them wrong after they have been answered .......

But only if we can carry on the discussion without personal attackings and respecting others viewpoints, can make this thread fruitful

[N30S1NGH]

I don't have much to say but only thing I would say sargun(with all attributes-gunas) is nirgun(without gunas) and nirgun is sargun there is no difference, hence you cannot confine/limit Vahiguroo(sargun and nirgun), or capture it, as soon you confine it in your consciousness, you are committing dualism/creating road blocks for yourself..those who confine sargun and nirgun are trying to capture akaal purkh nirgun sargun saroop in small pot, pot will be destroyed before even attempting confine sargun nirgun...cannot be possible.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!