Sikh Response To Hukam In This Video

[isingh1699]

ਪੁੰਨੀ ਪਾਪੀ ਆਖਣੁ ਨਾਹਿ ॥ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਿ ਕਰਣਾ ਲਿਖਿ ਲੈ ਜਾਹੁ ॥ ਆਪੇ ਬੀਜਿ ਆਪੇ ਹੀ ਖਾਹੁ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਹੁਕਮੀ ਆਵਹੁ ਜਾਹੁ ॥੨੦॥

Veerji absolutely agreed that as per Gurmat, that as we sow, so shall we reap. However, i humbly submit to you Pyare Veer that we should not presume as to how God's infinite greatness delivers the reaction to each action (both positive and negative).

Do not dismiss something simply because Hindus also coincidentally happen to believe it.

Veerji the Hindu's and particularly their evil racist ideologue Rishi Manu devised the so-called Karmic system of justice as many nowadays interpret it. Guru Sahib turned these Hindu lies on their head by denying that the suffering seen in this life is as a result of past sins. As Guru Sahib were the champion of the poor (Garib Nawaz), the weak and the oppressed whom Hindutva terrorism accused of being responsible for their own suffering (due to past misdeeds in previous lives). 1947+1984+the multiple other Islamic Ghallugharas against our Qaum conculsively show that we can never agree with Manu Smriti.

Do you believe in reincarnation?

Absolutely Veerji. But if you were asking if I believe whether one life will get a dark skinned malnourished child from Africa a promotion in the next to being a healthy well fed, well educated kid in America in the next life, then no I absolutely do not believe in that. And I belive we experience a spectrum of lives and lifeforms in order to enable our soul to progress to merger with The One.

So if a girl was raped she deserved it for her past life karmas? We shouldn't save her either if we could as it would intervene with her karmas punishment going against god's justice?

You hit the nail on the head Dalbir Singh Veerji. This is what our enemies laughed about when they tossed up Sikh babies on to spears in Pakistan in 1947 and when they set fire to Sikhs in 1984 with kerosene supplied by Congress. That this was pur so-called karmic punishment for past misdeeds. No Sikh should believe this lie.

If you are a conscious human being, aware of life is sacred. Free will is the greatest gift of Whaeguru to human beings, you will not revoke other beings free will by rape, killing or other means. Free will means that we have a choice to create our own experience in this life. Since physical life has a polarity of two forces love and fear. GOD put a choice in front of us how do we want to create our experience love or fear?

Veerji absolutely agreed, no true Sikh will kill or rape others. But we must also be careful to reject the lie that those innocent victims of genocide, rape and disability suffer as a result of their previous misdeeds in previous lives as this is a pure Hindutva lie propagagted by Manu Smriti (primarily to assist in the oppression of dalits and women). Gurmat is wholly based upon truth and reason. Gurbani cannot be separated from reason. Thus we shouldn't speculate unduly about that which we are unsure about.

God alone knows everything as pyare Veer Bijla Singh Ji rightly said. So why not let us entrust all justice to Akal Purakh rather than by the lies propagated by Manu Smriti.

[SINGH20]

A few years ago I was fortunate to experience the Khalsa Camp in UK. Bhai Tarsem Singh explained the "Karama" system from the Sikh perspective, this is the video (~1 hour):

[Bijla Singh]

Veerji the Hindu's and particularly their evil racist ideologue Rishi Manu devised the so-called Karmic system of justice as many nowadays interpret it. Guru Sahib turned these Hindu lies on their head by denying that the suffering seen in this life is as a result of past sins. As Guru Sahib were the champion of the poor (Garib Nawaz), the weak and the oppressed whom Hindutva terrorism accused of being responsible for their own suffering (due to past misdeeds in previous lives).

Sikh philosophy of karma is vastly different than that of Hindus, Jains and Buddhists. Mannu attributed caste system to karma in order to make it divine, rigid and unchangeable. Guru sahib rejected caste system altogether but does not mean He also rejected karma system. Guru Sahib offered the correct workings of the karma system and explained that it is not fixed, changeable and under the control of God.

1947+1984+the multiple other Islamic Ghallugharas against our Qaum conculsively show that we can never agree with Manu Smriti.

There is no such thing as collective karma of an entire community. I do not know why without ever properly understanding Gurbani people start rejecting karma. Gurbani must be understood on the basis of Gurbani alone not Hindu philosophy. Gurmat karma cannot be rejected on the basis of falsity of Hindu karma. This is a foolish approach. Holocausts happen due to wrong decisions made by the leaders as is clear from “Babar Vani” Shabads. Sikhs were killed because they were Sikhs. Karma works at an individual level where two people directly interact with each other. For example, when Abdali attacked and 30,000 Sikhs died as a result, it was not due to past karma of 30,000 Sikhs who had joined hands to kill Abdali in past life. This is ridiculous. Abdali made a decision based on his fanaticism and greed to control India. Even if for the sake of argument we assume that Abdali’s actions were due to the past karma, then it by no relieves him of the burden and responsibility of murdering 30,000 people. He acquired new karma and it was still a sin. Karma is not created to get even, seek revenge and kill people. Karma’s purpose is to motivate people to do good things because good deeds produce rewards. It is an exercise of free will rather than making a person a puppet at the hands of unjust false God.

This is what our enemies laughed about when they tossed up Sikh babies on to spears in Pakistan in 1947 and when they set fire to Sikhs in 1984 with kerosene supplied by Congress. That this was pur so-called karmic punishment for past misdeeds. No Sikh should believe this lie.

Agreed but this doesn’t repudiate karma system. Rejecting karma based on a false premise will not lead to a true conclusion. If we get rid of karma and claim that God alone is causing holocausts, poverty, destruction etc. then it makes Him unjust contrary to His very nature. Gurmat God is Just, Wise and All-loving. He cannot give unequal opportunities to people randomly. There has to be a basis and that is people’s karma. Material wealth etc. is due to past karma. Being born in the house of a Sikh is due to past good karma. It is a fact.

In Gurbani, karma is always explained at an individual level for no two people have the same thought, deed, upbringing, birth, course of life etc. Therefore they will never have the same karma. God alone knows every intricate detail of karma but doesn’t mean karma is false. Guru Rakha

[proud2bejatt]

Continue to believe in an abhrahamic condition of a separate god, while my tribe continues to be one with the creator and fight 125,000 with one.

KHALISTAN ZINDABAD.

VJKVJF||

That's the response.

[isingh1699]

Sikh philosophy of karma is vastly different than that of Hindus, Jains and Buddhists.

Agreed Veerji and may I quickly say what an inspiration you are to younger youth like myself. Your post on Banda Singh Bahadur Ji nailed our dushts on their lies.

Mannu attributed caste system to karma in order to make it divine, rigid and unchangeable.

Agreed Rishi Manu was simply a Hindutva terrorist in the garb of a Rishi.

Guru sahib rejected caste system altogether

Absolutely Guru Sahib rejected this evil Hindu+Muslim lie in complete totality.

but does not mean He also rejected karma system.

But karma according to Gurmat is completely different to the Hindu's (as we both agree)

Guru Sahib offered the correct workings of the karma system and explained that it is not fixed, changeable and under the control of God.

Agreed

There is no such thing as collective karma of an entire community.

Agreed. However, when an entire community suffers there is individual after individual who deals with individualised suffering.

I do not know why without ever properly understanding Gurbani people start rejecting karma.

Because Veerji what is being rejected is the false Hindu construct of Karma because it is contradictory to Gurmat.

The Gurmat concept that each positive and negative "action" ("karma") takes us further away or closer to Parmatma is in no way rejected. As that is Gurmat.

The mistake many make is that they assume karma refers to "past" lives when in fact the original Sanskrit word referred to actions in THIS life.

Only Manu perverted the meaning of what Karma actually meant.

Gurbani must be understood on the basis of Gurbani alone not Hindu philosophy.

Exactly. And this is what often happens when Sikhs talk of karma. Many assume it refers to past lives. When Guru Sahib does not assert that.

Gurmat karma cannot be rejected on the basis of falsity of Hindu karma. This is a foolish approach.

Agreed

Holocausts happen due to wrong decisions made by the leaders as is clear from “Babar Vani” Shabads.

Agreed

Sikhs were killed because they were Sikhs.

Agreed

Karma works at an individual level where two people directly interact with each other. For example, when Abdali attacked and 30,000 Sikhs died as a result, it was not due to past karma of 30,000 Sikhs who had joined hands to kill Abdali in past life. This is ridiculous.

Agreed and it's very important Veerji that educated Sikhs like yourself ram this message home to those who have imbibed too much Hindutva philosphy.

Abdali made a decision based on his fanaticism and greed to control India.

Exactly

Even if for the sake of argument we assume that Abdali’s actions were due to the past karma,

They absolutely were not and Hindu philosophy shouldn't even be considered hypothetically

then it by no relieves him of the burden and responsibility of murdering 30,000 people.

Exactly

He acquired new karma and it was still a sin.

Bad actions are bad karma and are a sin.

It would be foolish to assume that Abdali will be born a Sikh to suffer in the terrorist GOI Genocide of Sikhs or Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947.

Karma is not created to get even, seek revenge and kill people.

Exactly

Karma’s purpose is to motivate people to do good things because good deeds produce rewards.

Good actions bring one closer to God and bad actions take one further away from God.

It is an exercise of free will rather than making a person a puppet at the hands of unjust false God.

Our entire jeevan is an exercise of free will. Akal Purakh is the only Justice and Truth there is.

Only Muslims, Hindu's and Christians believe in pre-destined puppets!

If we ... claim that God alone is causing holocausts, poverty, destruction etc. then it makes Him unjust contrary to His very nature. Gurmat God is Just, Wise and All-loving.

100% agreed. Only the Hindu's, Muslims and Christians make such pathetic and false claims about God causing holocausts, poverty, destruction.

He cannot give unequal opportunities to people randomly.

This is where I slightly differ from your view Bijla Singh Ji. Many Sikhs feel that white kids in America suffering less starvation than African kids is a random act of nature but that ultimately God evens this out via the fact that those innocents who suffer more are consequently closer to the mukhti of divine justice.

There has to be a basis and that is people’s karma. Material wealth etc. is due to past karma.

I totally disagree with this viewpoint Veerji. That God would ascribe greater material wealth to white folks seems ludicrous to me and this is a Hindutva belief.

Being born in the house of a Sikh is due to past good karma.

I believe we should be very thankful for Sikhi in our lives but we should not assume that we have a better present life or indeed past than anybody else.

In Gurbani, karma is always explained at an individual level for no two people have the same thought, deed, upbringing, birth, course of life etc. Therefore they will never have the same karma. God alone knows every intricate detail of karma but doesn’t mean karma is false. Guru Rakha

Absolutely Veerji. Rather than the playing the game of Pakhandi Babe who can tell us all this nonsense about previous life histories we should work off the basis that in THIS life, our actions in this life will take us further or closer to merger with the Almighty. It would hardly be just for Indira Gandhi to be reincarnated as a Sikh suffering from cancer without any knowledge of her crimes. Thus, we should leave all justice (that is beyond our comprehension) to Akal Purakh rather than speculating about past or future lives. Rabb Rakha Ji

[Bijla Singh]

Many Sikhs feel that white kids in America suffering less starvation than African kids is a random act of nature but that ultimately God evens this out via the fact that those innocents who suffer more are consequently closer to the mukhti of divine justice.

Karma must be understood based on Gurbani not how one feels. Gurbani is the ultimate authority here. Without previous life’s karma how do you explain one kid born in a poor family and another in a rich family? Gurbani says that all the relatives are result of previous life’s karma interaction.

ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਨਿਤਾ ਸੁਤ ਬੰਧਪ ਇਸਟ ਮੀਤ ਅਰੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ ਪੂਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਮਿਲੇ ਸੰਜੋਗੀ ਅੰਤਹਿ ਕੋ ਨ ਸਹਾਈ ॥1॥ (700)

Karma puts one in a certain situation but destination is not fixed. This life’s karma also plays its part. Having past life’s karma doesn’t mean this life’s karma is ineffective.

I totally disagree with this viewpoint Veerji. That God would ascribe greater material wealth to white folks seems ludicrous to me and this is a Hindutva belief.

No one says white people have more wealth. Skin color is due to DNA but it is created by God. Earth’s rotation around the Sun is due to gravity but it is created by God. Similarly, inheritance of wealth at birth is due to karma not accidental or random act of God without any basis whatsoever. If you say God is Just (and He is) then His dispense of wealth etc. must have a basis otherwise He is not Just and Wise. Without karma, there would be equal opportunities given to everyone at birth.

In USA, not all white people are rich. I have seen many starving and suffering worse than African Blacks. Majority of the people on Earth commit sins and do bad deeds so it makes sense why the majority would suffer in one way or another.

Hindutva is very specific ideology that was envisioned by Savarkar and founders of RSS. It is not based on Hindu books.

I believe we should be very thankful for Sikhi in our lives but we should not assume that we have a better present life or indeed past than anybody else.

Previous bhagtee greatly contributes. Those who come in contact with Satguru have better past karmas than others. Based on what choices they make, their new karma accumulates. Various eminent Sikhs have affirmed their past lives and bhagtee. This is not to say we should feel superior because Sikhs are instrcuted to remain humble. Ego is a malady. Sikh saints confirm that one’s lifetime’s worth of bhagtee is not enough to reach salvation. It takes many lives. Bhai Randhir Singh, Bhai Veer Singh, Sant Harnaam Singh and many others have written about past lives.

It would be foolish to assume that Abdali will be born a Sikh to suffer in the terrorist GOI Genocide of Sikhs or Pakistani Genocide of Sikhs in 1947......It would hardly be just for Indira Gandhi to be reincarnated as a Sikh suffering from cancer without any knowledge of her crimes.

Gurmat karma does not state that Indira Gandhi/Abdali or any killer of Sikhs would be born as a Sikh. In all likeliness they fell into lower joonis.

When the entire community suffers it is given that individuals suffer but it is not due to their past karma because collective karma does not exist and past karma does not determine one’s fate. Instead, leader and his followers are the ones acquiring new karma. The leader due to his past good karma was given the opportunity to become a leader and do greater good but instead he chose to do bad and harm one section of the community. So he acquires new karma and his goons incur new karma as well and they will suffer. Gurmat does not state they will suffer in the same manner or at the hands of the Sikhs etc.

If past karma does not exist then God is acting randomly. If past karma exists then God is dispensing justice based on a system. In both cases, God is the dispenser but one has a justification and the other doesn’t. One makes God Just while the other doesn’t.

Sikhs are not supposed to worry with past karma but doesn’t mean past karma does not exist. Gurbani says:

ਸੁਖੁ ਦੁਖੁ ਪੁਰਬ ਜਨਮ ਕੇ ਕੀਏ ॥ (1030)

Some dukh sukh come from past karma but their effects can be reduced. God writes up these karmas on one’s forehead as Gurbani says:

ਹਥਿ ਕਲੰਮ ਅਗੰਮ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਲਿਖਾਵਤੀ ॥ (261)

One’s reward and punishment cannot be blamed on God as an act of randomness because He is Most Just and Wise. Vaheguru alone knows everything. All I know is

ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਕੀ ਇਸੁ ਮਨ ਕਉ ਮਲੁ ਲਾਗੀ ਕਾਲਾ ਹੋਆ ਸਿਆਹੁ ॥ (651)

And I need to humbly submit to Satguru to break out of this cycle. Guru Rakha