Mahima Of Wahiguru, His Nam & His Gurmukhs ....

[N30S1NGH]

Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sree Akaal,

Dear all and N30S1NGH Jee,

Is Agam Roop (non moving form) and Jot Saroop (flames alike form) the same?

Agam Roop has its place in mind whilst mind is like a Jot (flames). Are these not two different experiences?

Balbir Singh

You are only looking at one of sargun aspect of jot but in reality essence- jot saroop and agam roop is same, here is conversation between soul and supreme soul:

ਪਾਧੜੀ ਛੰਦ ॥

पाधड़ी छंद ॥

PAADHRAI STANZA

ਤ੍ਵ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

त्व प्रसादि ॥

BY THY GRACE

ਦਿਨ ਅਜਬ ਏਕ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਅਨਭਉ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਨਹਦ ਅਕਾਮ ॥

दिन अजब एक आतमा राम ॥ अनभउ सरूप अनहद अकाम ॥

On a day the curious soul (asked): The infinite and Desire less Lord, the Intuitive Entity.

ਅਨਛਿੱਜ ਤੇਜ ਆਜਾਨ ਬਾਹੁ ॥ ਰਾਜਾਨ ਰਾਜੁ ਸਾਹਾਨ ਸਾਹੁ ॥੧॥੧੨੬॥

अनछि्ज तेज आजान बाहु ॥ राजान राजु साहान साहु ॥१॥१२६॥

Of everlasting Glory and long-armed; the King of kings and Emperor of emperors.1.126.

ਉਚਰਿਓ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਸੰਗ ॥ ਉਤਭੁਜ ਸਰੂਪ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਭੰਗ ॥

उचरिओ आतमा परातमा संग ॥ उतभुज सरूप अबिगत अभंग ॥

The soul said to the Higher Soul; the Germinating Entity, Unmanifested and Invincible;

ਇਹ ਕਉਨ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਸਰੂਪ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜ ਅਤਿਭੂਤਿ ਬਿਭੂਤਿ ॥੨॥੧੨੭॥

इह कउन आहि आतमा सरूप ॥ जिह अमित तेज अतिभूति बिभूति ॥२॥१२७॥

What is this Soul Entity? Which hath indelible glory and which is of queer substance."2.127.

ਪਰਾਤਮਾ ਬਾਚ ॥

परातमा बाच ॥

The Higher Soul said:

ਯਹਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਆਹਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਰਾਮ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਅਮਿਤ ਤੇਜਿ ਅਬਿਗਤ ਅਕਾਮ ॥

यहि ब्रहम आहि आतमा राम ॥ जिह अमित तेजि अबिगत अकाम ॥

This Soul is itself Brahman;" Who is of Everlasting Glory and is Unmanisfested and Desireless.

ਜਿਹ ਭੇਦ ਭਰਮ ਨਹੀਂ ਕਰਮ ਕਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਸਰਬਾ ਦਿਆਲ ॥੩॥੧੨੮॥

जिह भेद भरम नहीं करम काल ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र सरबा दिआल ॥३॥१२८॥

Who is indiscriminate, actionless and deathless; Who hath no enemy and friend and is Merciful towards all.3.1228.

ਡੋਬਿਓ ਨ ਡੁਬੈ ਸੋਖਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਕਟਿਓ ਨ ਕਟੈ ਨ ਬਾਰਿਯੋ ਬਰਾਇ ॥

डोबिओ न डुबै सोखिओ न जाइ ॥ कटिओ न कटै न बारियो बराइ ॥

It is neither drowned nor soaked; It can neither be chopped nor burnt.

ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਸਤ ਸਸਤ੍ਰ ਪਾਤ ॥ ਜਿਹ ਸਤ੍ਰ ਮਿਤ੍ਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਜਾਤ ਪਾਤ ॥੪॥੧੨੯॥

छिजै न नैक सत ससत्र पात ॥ जिह सत्र मित्र नहीं जात पात ॥४॥१२९॥

It cannot be assailed by the blow of weapon; It hath neither an enemy nor a friend, neither caste not lineage.4.129.

ਸਤ੍ਰ ਸਹੰਸ ਸਤ ਸਤ ਪ੍ਰਘਾਇ ॥ ਛਿਜੈ ਨ ਨੈਕ ਖੰਡਿਓ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

सत्र सहंस सत सत प्रघाइ ॥ छिजै न नैक खंडिओ न जाइ ॥

By the blow of thousands of enemies, It is neither wasted away nor fragmented.

ਨਹੀ ਜਰੈ ਨੈਕ ਪਾਵਕ ਮੰਝਾਰ ॥ ਬੋਰੈ ਨ ਸਿੰਧ ਸੋਖੈ ਨ ਬਯਾਰ ॥੫॥੧੩੦॥

नही जरै नैक पावक मंझार ॥ बोरै न सिंध सोखै न बयार ॥५॥१३०॥

It is not burnt even in the fire. It is neither drowned in the sea nor soaked by the air.5.13

I think this leads to very beautiful expression paradoxical ( occur to some) understanding of divine which its probably understood by only few as full understanding is realized in experience-

Ikongkar (agam roop- unmoving- stillness) yet always in movement -dynamic - creating, preserving, changing.

Ikongkar is non moving/still -agam roop yet that supreme reality always in movement-dynamic consciousness- creating preserving changing. Stillness in movement..!!

Ikongkar- One universal supreme awareness which is still in its movement always creating, perserving and changing

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sree Akaal,
N30S1NGH Jee,

Thanks for referring the PAADHRAI STANZA.

Please point out precisely which Vaak from Gurdev is saying that His Agam Roop (non moving form) and Jot Saroop (flames alike form) is the same?
I will be grateful.

Balbir Singh

[harsharan000]

ga-orhee chaytee
Gauree Chaytee

Har jas suneh na Har gun gaavahi.
They do not listen to the Lord's Praises, and they do not sing the Lord's Glories,

baatan hee asmaan giraaveh.
but they try to bring down the sky with their talk.

aisay logan si-o ki-aa kahee-ai.
What can anyone say to such people?

jo parabh kee-ay bhagat tay baahaj tin tay sadaa daraanay rahee-ai.
You should always be careful around those whom God has excluded from His devotional worship.

aap na deh churoo bhar paanee.
They do not offer even a handful of water,

tih nindeh jih gangaa aanee.
while they slander the one who brought forth the Ganges.

baithat uthat kutiltaa chaaleh.
Sitting down or standing up, their ways are crooked and evil.

aap ga-ay a-uran hoo ghaaleh.
They ruin themselves, and then they ruin others.

chhaad kuchrachaa aan na jaaneh.
They know nothing except evil talk.

barahmaa hoo ko kahi-o na maaneh.
They would not even obey Brahma's orders.

aap ga-ay a-uran hoo khoveh.
They themselves are lost, and they mislead others as well.

aag lagaa-ay mandar mai soveh.
They set their own temple on fire, and then they fall asleep within it.

avran hasat aap heh kaannay.
They laugh at others, while they themselves are one-eyed.

tin ka-o daykh kabeer lajaanay.
Seeing them, Kabeer is embarrassed.

In this beautiful shabad of Kabir Sahib, from Raag Gauree Chaytee, in the Granth Sahib Maharaj, apart from singing the Glory of the Supreme Lord (Wahiguru Akal Purukh) He is telling us something about, those who deny His praises and thus do not sing His Glory, because they say that, that is not possible.

He says that we should be careful from them, because they know nothing of His bhakti, but rather with futile talk, want to reach His abode. Their mind is full of evil at all times, whether they are sitting down or standing up. Outer positions do not count, as it is the mind and hearts of them which are full of "mal"....

They know nothing, except evil talk (slander and nonsense), thus they themselves are lost in agyanta, and they mislead others as well.

They are (crooked) square headed, and shortsighted, for them, only they are right....they do not understand the depth of the teachings in Gurmat, but just swim on the surface....while the precious gems are found only by going deep into the ocean (within oneself), through the practice of bhakti, which is the very purpose of sikhee

So in the eyes of saints and merciful people, these "special people" are to be pitied only, because what more adeversity can be upon them, who, as the starting of Kabeer Sahib´s this very shabad says:" Har jas suneh na Har gun gaavahi" ......they do not listen to His praises, and thus do not sing His glory neither ...

*The fact is, we all are imperfect beings, as long as we are away from Him.

But according to one of His countless virtues, He is known as Merciful, and the following line of Guru Jee, reminds us to take shelter at His holy Feet, so that He may accept us as we are, in order to cross the "bhavsagar" and reach Him.

Kirapaa karahu dheen kae daathae, maeraa gun avagan n beechaarahu koee
Have mercy on me, O Generous Giver, Lord of the meek; please do not consider my merits and demerits

[harsharan000]

kali-aan mehlaa 4
Kalyaan, Fourth Mehl

Following are some words of our Fourth Patsahee in Raag Kalyan, where He describes clearly in a simple manner, what happens if one sings His glory:

Har jan gun gaavat hasi-aa.
The humble servant of the Lord sings the Lord's Praise, and blossoms forth.

He says, that by singing His glory, one blossoms forth, means, one becomes fit for His realization, and one achieves the objective of one´s life, which is to become one with Wahiguru Akal Purukh.

Then continuing a bit further he says:

Har Har Har keerat jag saaree ghas chandan jas ghasi-aa.
The Praise of the Lord, Har, Har, Har, is Excellent and Sublime in this world. His Praise is the sandalwood paste which I rub.

Here, the praise of the Lord, is as same as His Simran, and He refers to it as sandalwood paste, and the rubbing is, the doing the bhakti of Nam Simran. So just as when one applies the sandalwood paste on one´s body, that body is perfumed by its fragrance, so does that sikh get perfumed with the fragrance of Wahiguru´s virtues, when one engages oneself in His bhakti.

And also, He points out the character of those who deny His glory, He calls them "dait" means evil, because just as soon they hear His Mahima or Glory, their whole being gets perturbed....so naturally, they think and speak evil only:

kahaa bha-i-aa dait karee bakheelee sabh kar kar jhar pari-aa.
What does it matter, if a demon speaks evil? By doing so, he only gets frustrated....and tries to vomit that frustration on all around him.

But His servants, His devotees, who sing His Glory, are protected by Him at all times, as per the folowing line of our Guru Jee:

Har jan Har Har Har Parabh raakhay, jan naanak saran pa-i-aa.
The humble servants of the Lord are protected by the Lord God, Har, Har, Har; servant Nanak seeks His Sanctuary.

* In this above shabad of Sree Guru Ram Das, we come to know one more virtue of His beant Mahima, which is, that He is Rakhanhaar(protector), of His devotees ....

Sat Sree Akal.

[S4NGH]

Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sree Akaal,

Dear all,

Surprisingly all true seekers question the validity of "Waheguru" gur-mantar jaap.

Gurdev never suggested its jaap nor it gives the results described by them.

Please listen. Gurdev is singing about Gurmantra.

ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਦੀਓ ਗੁਰਿ ਮੰਤ੍ਰੁ ॥

हरि का नामु दीओ गुरि मंत्रु ॥

hari kaa naamu deeo guri mantra. GauRee M: 5 SGGS Ang 190-9

*****

Sat1176 jee,

Please let all know from whom you got "Waheguru" gur-mantar jaap and if the name of your Guru is mentioned in SGGS jee.

Balbir Singh

[S4NGH]

Balbir Singh brings an interesting perspective to the table. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your posts though some scrambled my mind.

This has got to be one of the best posts ive read in a long time!

Keep your cool though people we're all family here.

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sree Akaal,
Dear all,

Something seems to have gone wrong with harsharan000 jee.
His knowledgeable teacher is perhaps the dictionary.

Praise is an expression through words.
My true Guru explained that Mahimaa cannot be expressed through words.

*****

Harsharan000 jee, It is nice to meet you on this forum again.
Please let all kids know what is His Gurmukh. I will also be obliged.

Balbir Singh

[harsharan000]

The "dait", the moorakh, the agyanee, the hankaree, the liar, the shameless..... does not know anything of Mahima of Wahiguru. He constantly denies it, becuase His mind and heart are full of "mal".

So not only he avoids paying attention to it, but also pollutes the minds and souls of the weak, of the inmature; trys to act smart and provoke disharmony.

Inspite of being warned and ignored, like a mad dog he keeps on barking and inviting trouble for himself, so the best remedy is to leave that dog alone, unless nature finds a solution for him, or a veterinary municipal officer comes and lock him up, in a locker for the mad dogs.

he goes to the extent that, if any quotation is taken from the Bani of our very Guru Sahibans, who sing His glory, His Mahima... he says that it is dictionary teacher ..... shame, shame, shame,

It is true as somebody told him, that he had exceeded all logic and common sense, even his " supporter" left him ....

But nevertheless, inspite of all the evilness from some of these daits, if anything is worthy being done in this world, that is singing His Mahima, His wadeeayee, His greatness... from the Bani left by our Guru Sahibans, who are His very embodiment, and through them we are able today to listen and sing His Mahima.

Following are some few words of Sachay Patshah Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj, where He confirms that His Mahima can be sung and heard, if He wants, not otherwise.

Raag Gauree, Sukhmani Sahib:

ਆਪਿ ਜਪਾਏ ਜਪੈ ਸੋ ਨਾਉ

Aap Japaaeae Japai So Naao

आपि जपाए जपै सो नाउ

Those, whom He inspires to chant, chant His Name.

ਆਪਿ ਗਾਵਾਏ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਉ

Aap Gaavaaeae, So Har Gun Gaao

आपि गावाए सु हरि गुन गाउ

Those, whom He inspires to sing, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord

Wah Wah Saachay Patshah Dhan Guru Arjun Dev Maharaj

[Balbir Singh]

Pray Truth for all and say Sat Sree Akaal,
Dear all,

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

ਬਰਨਿ ਨ ਸਾਕਉ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਪੇਖਿ ਰਹੇ ਬਿਸਮਾਦ ॥੨॥੫੫॥੭੮॥

बरनि न साकउ नानक महिमा पेखि रहे बिसमाद ॥२॥५५॥७८॥

barani na saakau naanak mahimaa pekhi rahe bismaad.2.55.78 Saarang M: 5 SGGS Ang 1219-14
Naanak cannot utter Mahimaa, observing one is wonder-struck.

Strange that the poster harsharan000 writes "if anything is worthy being done in this world, that is singing His Mahima,"

*****

Please listen. Gurdev is singing.

ਤੇਰੀ ਮਹਿਮਾ ਤੂੰਹੈ ਜਾਣਹਿ ॥

तेरी महिमा तूंहै जाणहि ॥

teree mahimaa tooNhai jaaRahi. Maajh M: 5 SGGS Ang 108-17
Your Mahimaa you alone know.

I know now at least one born out of bho scented who writes "and through them we are able today to listen and sing His Mahima."

*****

Thanks for referring the wonderful Vaak from Gurdev.

ਆਪਿ ਗਾਵਾਏ ਸੁ ਹਰਿ ਗੁਨ ਗਾਉ ॥

आपि गावाए सु हरि गुन गाउ ॥

aapi gaavaae su hari gun gaao. GauRee Sukhmanee M: 5 SGGS Ang 270-19
Those, whom He inspires to sing, sing Hari's Attributes.

*****

This is a request to gursharan000 jee. Please let all kids know what is His Gurmukh. I will also be obliged.

Balbir Singh

[Sat1176]

Looked up [gun] in the English version of Mahan Kosh (volume 2 - pg 417).

[gun]

1. attribute :nod: , praise :nod: .

"gun eho horu nahi koi" - asa m 1. 'The Creators attribute is that nothing equals Him'.

2. modest, good-natured, noble

3. three attributes of the material world, virtue, passion, evil (rajagun, tamogun, satogun)

4. temperament nature,

5. rope, thread, string : "gun ke har perove" 'prepare garland with the thread of good qualities'

....

Scholars :read: will want to refer to His 'attributes' and Lovers :wub22: will want to sing His 'praises'/ustat. :bumpbros:

At least they are both talking about the same One! :respect:

parabh kee ustat karahu sant meet.

Do the Praises of God Saint friends.

satsangat meh har ustat hai sang saaDhoo milay pi-aari-aa.

In the Sat Sangat the Lord's Praises are found, in the company of the Saadhoo the Beloved is met. :wink2:

Before some people jump up and down you could also read that line as :

In the Sat Sangat the Lord's Praises are found and the company of the Beloved Saadhoo.