Why It Is Adviced By Gurmukhs To Keep Dhyan Not At Forehead For Ghristis?

[Guest dasguruka]

Because it increases anger

[N30S1NGH]

Because it increases anger

Now that just silly, lot of sant/gurmukhs- sant isher singh ji rara sahib, sant javala singh harkhowale, sant waryam singh ji among others and including current sant dhandrianwale have used that reference point incorporated with shabad at their initial stages to transcedent, if it increases anger for you, blame it on the mind-five senses-gyan indrais, not a reference a point ..its like blaming a picture of sant mahapursh because one feels angry a looking at the picture...what a fear mongering non sense..!!

Just for the record, i don't use any of reference points in the body, i followed dhian of shabad but acknowledge other techniques used as aids just as valid in gurmat as its in gurbani and its small components of shabad surat marg.

[harsharan000]

It is a pity, just because of someone´s narrow mind, this beautiful thread is going out of proportion....

Let us see, when we have to think, or ponder, or reflect on something, or even to remember something, do we take our hands to our feet, our knees, stomach, or shoulders?

Or do we take it to our head?

The thinking process, is done in the head, in the mind, isn´t it?

So , what is Simran or dhyan?

Simran or dhyan, is a mental process, where our attention of the world in the form of thoughts pouring out from the mind are stopped gradualy, and that very attention is diverted to the finer realms, where the Shabad, the Anhad Shabad, is being struck non stop.

So as all this process, engages mental activity, and mental activity is done in the head, not feet, nor hands , nor any other area of our body, that is why, it is said, or explained that, it is the point between the eyes where we concentrate, in order to catch that Shabad within us, not that physically there is any point in our head ....

So let us just leave complicating things, because it leads nowhere, but just towards confrontations ....

So if someone does not know how to behave himself, break your computer and do not ever log into this Sikh sangat website, and spread disharmony, or negative vibrations among the Sangat members...it is a benti.

Waheguru Jee

[Guest dasguruka]

Now that just silly, lot of sant/gurmukhs- sant isher singh ji rara sahib, sant javala singh harkhowale, sant waryam singh ji among others and including current sant dhandrianwale have used that reference point incorporated with shabad at their initial stages to transcedent, if it increases anger for you, blame it on the mind-five senses-gyan indrais, not a reference a point ..its like blaming a picture of sant mahapursh because one feels angry a looking at the picture...what a fear mongering non sense..!!

Just for the record, i don't use any of reference points in the body, i followed dhian of shabad but acknowledge other techniques used as aids just as valid in gurmat as its in gurbani and its small components of shabad surat marg.

Heard it in a katha by Giani Thakur Singh Ji. He said Grishtis should focus on their navel and sant mahapurshs focus on their forehead.

If you can control the 5 vices then go for it. It might be a good starting point for Gristis

[N30S1NGH]

Heard it in a katha by Giani Thakur Singh Ji. He said Grishtis should focus on their navel and sant mahapurshs focus on their forehead.

If you can control the 5 vices then go for it. It might be a good starting point for Gristis

Thanks for clarifying veer ji.. I apologise for my previous reaction in the post.

[luckysingh99]

The Navel is a good point and can be very helpful in later stages.

Some people need something to help focus just so that they can SIT their dhyian WITHIN and then divert to shabad.

If you can't put dhyian near mouth, ears, nose, between eyes..... then the navel is a good choice worth trying.

The ''dharan' which is slightly below and behind navel, is the 2nd location like trikuti where the breath nadis and especially sukhmanna channel rise straight up towards nijh ghar. and waheguru's door.

None of us, whether we use these stabilizing techniques or not are any the wiser. Therefore, it would be unjust to misguide the younger sikhs who are trying to get to grips with their own simran techniques.

Message to those trying.is>>..-you should try, try, and try... and Waheguru himself will give you some sort of confirming hints and guidance to reassure that you are walking the spiritual path correctly.

You don't need confirmation from us moorakhs, but you should be aware of the choices, jugtees and vidhis available.

[luckysingh99]

What Bhai Gurdas ji is talking about is very advanced and only a person who has achieved what is written can correctly explain what it all means. This is my feeble attempt at trying to make sense of what is written from my limited knowledge.

Totally agree !

It is very advanced and the so-ham/ ham-so is japped in such a manner that one will eventually not have to ask which breath, whether incoming/outgoing or 'who am I'...because soham will be hamso, or ''who am I'' =''I am he''.

It's like eventually one cannot distinguish whether the person is saying so-ham or ham-so.

This is what takes the person to ajapa jap from what i understand.

eirraa pi(n)gulaa sukhamanaa la(n)gh thribaenee nij ghar aavai||

They go beyond the triveni of ira, pingala and sukhamanaa and stabilize in their own self.

I don't think that this is saying or giving the message that the triveni should be neglected, but rather about when one passes,conquers and moves further from that stage.

Once they have passed that stage then they don't have to do the vidhis to stabilize themselves- and there are a number of vidhis that one can do focused in that area that all help balance and stabilize the Mind & Breath, merge with shabad and then experience the prakash of waheguru jyot.

The tuk is simply saying'' I've done it, I'm passed that part and I don't have to focus on stabilizing now, I can go beyond and speak/listen/see Waheguru directly (I am there!)

[BarinderSingh]

charan kamal makara(n)dh ras hoe bhavar lai vaas lubhaavai||

Like the black bee they surrender at the lotus feet of Guru and enjoy the sap and remain happy.

Analogy of surrendering the mind before the lotus feet of the Guru.

Yes it is an analogy, I agree. It is the key to this Vaar so lets explore it. The bee (Sikh) does everything for the queen bee (the Guru). As long as this bee stays surrendered to the queen bee it is happy and enjoys the fruits of obeying to the queen bee. The amount of dedication to the queen bee is presented when the bee has to fight for the queen bees home from predators. The bee, no matter how big the predator is, will attack the predator. In the process of the attack the bee knows it only has one sting and with that one sting it will also die.

eirraa pi(n)gulaa sukhamanaa la(n)gh thribaenee nij ghar aavai||

They go beyond the triveni of ira, pingala and sukhamanaa and stabilize in their own self.

They pass the triveni (aka 3rd eye) of ida, pingala and sukhmana to reach nij ghar also known as dassam duar. Like I stated in my earlier posts you bathe at triveni, not stay seated there permanently. Eventually one will rise above it with the aid of the Anhad Shabads and Naad. When one has a bath he doesn't stay sitting in the bath forever, eventually you get out and move on. Similarly before one enters the court of the lord one bathes at this point in the Shabad.

Bhai Gurdas ji is saying those that follow the Gurus path are stable in their body because they did not follow the third eye point technique. The people that surrender to the Guru are above the third eye point technique. You comment about bathing at triveni. But Guru Sahib says apply the Shabad (Gurbani) to the mind. The mind is to bathe in the Shabad.

saahi saahi man pavan liv soha(n) ha(n)saa japai japaavai||

They through the flame of breath, mind and the life force, recite and make others recite the soham and hans recitations (jap).

With each and every breath (inhale/exhale) they get their mind/surti to merge into the breath by having it jap the soham - hansaa mantra. This is a very old school mantra to thread the mind smoothly into the breath. (Soooo on inhale, haaam on exhale) The mantra is also designated as Hamsa, Hansa, Sohum, So Ham, or So Hum. The Soham mantra is also called the Hamsa mantra. Hamsa (or hansa) poses the question, Who am I? Soham provides the answer, I am that. Lets be clear here I am no way suggesting people drop the Waheguru mantra in place of Soham. Similarly the Waheguru mantar can be used instead of Soham.

Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji (ang 1092) and Bhagat Kabir ji (ang 1162) mention this jap of Soham and hans in their Bani. Bhai Gurdas ji is using this jap reference in the same way it is used in Gurbani. This is the jap, He is me, and I am Him while using breathing techniques. Understand this jap from a Sikhi frame of reference. If you dont, then we run into many problems when it comes to practicing/interpreting Gurbani. Here is a small example that everyone will know of, it comes in Rehraas Sahib.

ਨਾ ਹਉ ਜਤੀ ਸਤੀ ਨਹੀ ਪੜਿਆ ਮੂਰਖ ਮੁਗਧਾ ਜਨਮੁ ਭਇਆ ॥

ना हउ जती सती नही पड़िआ मूरख मुगधा जनमुभइआ ॥

Nā ha▫o jaṯī saṯī nahī paṛi▫ā mūrakẖ mugḏẖā janam bẖa▫i▫ā.

I am not celibate, nor truthful, nor scholarly. I was born foolish and ignorant into this world.

ਪ੍ਰਣਵਤਿ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਨ ਕੀ ਸਰਣਾ ਜਿਨ ਤੂ ਨਾਹੀ ਵੀਸਰਿਆ ॥੨॥੩॥

प्रणवति नानक तिन की सरणा जिन तू नाहीवीसरिआ ॥२॥३॥

Paraṇvaṯ Nānak ṯin kī sarṇā jin ṯū nāhī vīsri▫ā. ||2||3||

Prays Nanak, I seek the Sanctuary of those who have not forgotten You, O Lord! ||2||3||

If we were to interpret jati as celibate here we are in a whole lot of trouble. Today no Sikh would be married or have kids. The Gurus would be going against their own Bani by having kids. But we are not so silly to say jati means celibate. Jati here has to be translated into a Sikhi frame of reference. The Soham and Hans jap uttered without the Guru is said without understanding. Without the Guru this jap is bound by the breath and bounds the person to the three qualities and 5 elements. Guru Sahib says on ang 1092 to jap Soham and Hans with the Gurus knowledge of, He is me and I am him. In this way you will start jap of Vaheguru. Bhai Gurdas Ji starts this Vaar by saying surrender to the Guru. So Bhai Gurdas ji is saying do this jap with the understanding of the Guru. Which is the Gurmantar given to us by the Gurus; Vaheguru simran. Vaheguru jap is not bound by the breath and those that do the Soham and Hans jap in this way will not be bound as well.

acharaj roop anoop liv ga(n)dhh suga(n)dhh avaes machaavai||

The form of surati is wonderfully fragrant and enrapturing.

You will experience incomparable sights and fragrances as the mind, mantra and breath are tied together

In the way Guru Sahib says on 1092 and further explained shabad on ang 1092 of Guru Sahib by me above. If in this way you do jap then you will become the beautiful fragrant that comes from Gurbani.

sukhasaagar charanaarabi(n)dh sukh sa(n)patt vich sehaj samaavai||

The Gurmukhs calmly absorb in the pleasure-ocean of the Guru feet.

They merge into a state of sehaj which is the pleasure-ocean of the Guru's feet.

I agree.

guramukh sukhafal piram ras dhaeh bidhaeh param padh paavai||

When they in the form of pleasure-fruit obtain the supreme joy, they go beyond the bondages of body and bodylessness and attain the highest station.

With the Mind focused towards the Guru it rises above the attachments of the body.

Yes, but to add the Gurmukh goes beyond all of creation. Gurmukh resides in Sachkhand at this point. Even though the Gurmukh may be still on this earth. The Gurmukhs has realized Vaheguru with no attachment to that will perish. This Gurmukh has his full attention on the shabad even though he walks on this earth like everyone else.

saadhhasa(n)gath mil alakh lakhaavai

Such Gurmukhs have the glimpse of that invisible Lord in the Holy Congregation.

Once he realises that Waheguru is within himself, then it is only right that Waheguru is everywhere and in every being. Hence where ever he looks he sees Waheguru.

Das has probably made countless mistakes here and does ardas that Waheguru himself show the correct way via direct experience.

Bhul Chuk Maaf

[Sat1176]

Here is another reference to bathing at the trikuti by Bhagat Kabir Ji

Ang 327

Gauree, Kabeer Jee:

ga-orhee kabeer jee.

When the body dies, where does the soul go?

pind moo-ai jee-o kih ghar jaataa.

This can be referring to what happens to us when we actually die or could be referring to what happens when we die in the shabad during meditation?

It is absorbed into the untouched, unstruck melody of the Word of the Shabad.

sabad ateet anaahad raataa.

Only one who knows the Lord realizes Him.

jin raam jaani-aa tineh pachhaani-aa.

The mind is satisfied and satiated, like the mute who eats the sugar candy and just smiles, without speaking.

ji-o goongay saakar man maani-aa.

Such is the spiritual wisdom which the Lord has imparted.

aisaa gi-aan kathai banvaaree.

O mind, hold your breath steady within the central channel of the Sushmanaa. Pause

man ray pavan darirh sukhman naaree. rahaa-o.

How this is achieved is explained in the following lines.

Adopt such a Guru (Shabad Guru Surat Dhun Chella), that you shall not have to adopt another again.

so gur karahu je bahur na karnaa.

Focus on Gurmantar initially followed by Anhad Shabad/Naad when manifest.

Dwell in such a state, that you shall never have to dwell in any other.

so pad ravhu je bahur na ravnaa.

Embrace such a meditation, that you shall never have to embrace any other.

so Dhi-aan Dharahu je bahur na Dharnaa.

Die in such a way, that you shall never have to die again.

aisay marahu je bahur na marnaa.

To die in the shabad means to have no other thoughts or vichar but the hearing the shabad alone.

Turn your breath away from the left channel, and away from the right channel, and unite them in the central channel of the Sushmanaa.

ultee gangaa jamun milaava-o.

Kabir ji again is explaining that somtimes the breath flows through the left nostril or wind pipe and sometimes through the right. If one can learn to make them flow through the both at the same time. This is called uniting them in the channel of sushmana

At their confluence within your mind, take your bath there without water. (Trikuti again! :huh2: )

bin jal sangam man meh nHaava-o.

Once you have managed to activate sushmana/sukhmana breathing then along with mental gurmantar jaap, one is instructed to focus at the trikuti (i.e. confluence). This also is one of the reasons why focusing on trikuti from day one can be a waste of time because you haven't completed the first step of invoking sukhmana breathing.

To look upon all with an impartial eye - let this be your daily occupation.

lochaa samsar ih bi-uhaaraa.

As I explained in the earlier post whilst the above translation is correct one can also interpret this line to be, look with single line of sight i.e. one pointed vision

Contemplate this essence of reality - what else is there to contemplate?

tat beechaar ki-aa avar beechaaraa.

When one enters the sushmana channel you cross the subtle elements of the body which are listed in the next line. In Sukhmani sahib Guru Arjan Dev ji explains how to cross these with the aid of the Gurshabad/Gurmantar.

Water, fire, wind, earth and ether

ap tayj baa-ay parithmee aakaasaa.

- adopt such a way of life and you shall be close to the Lord.

aisee rahat raha-o har paasaa.

Says Kabeer, meditate on the Immaculate Lord.

kahai kabeer niranjan Dhi-aava-o.

Keep your dhyan and focus on Waheguru and the shabad.

Go to that home, which you shall never have to leave.

thit ghar jaa-o je bahur na aava-o.

[N30S1NGH]

There are plenty of references of trikurti/nabhi reference points (meant to use as aids) incorporated with shabad, these cannot be ignored or rejected as its clearly mentioned in gurbani . Gurbani caters to all perceptions, all states of mind, to everyone.. gurbani relates to all individuals whichever state/reference points they are drawn too help the seeker in spiritual development process/stages. Thats why one cannot seperate bhagti, shabad surat, shakti, advait gyan gurmat aspects in gurmat its beautifully blended together as One ikongkar to ensure there is spontaneous natural flow/spontenous natural flow of transcendence in seeker(given seeker is receptive) and in shabad while reading it or contemplating on it and ensure there is no rigidity, segregation, road block, wrap one head around pointers, idolization of one aspect while out rightly rejecting undermining other aspects.

Whilst i disagree with barinder singh rigid/preconditioned somewhat paranoid/hindu phobic approach and his outright rejection of using trikuri as reference point (while gurbani says otherwise). I agree with post mentioned technique mentioned in bhai gurdas ji quoted by him just as valid as lucky singh said advanced-

Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji (ang 1092) and Bhagat Kabir ji (ang 1162) mention this jap of Soham and hans in their Bani. Bhai Gurdas ji is using this jap reference in the same way it is used in Gurbani. This is the jap, He is me, and I am Him while using breathing techniques. Understand this jap from a Sikhi frame of reference.

Guru Sahib says on ang 1092 to jap Soham and Hans with the Gurus knowledge of, He is me and I am him. In this way you will start jap of Vaheguru. Bhai Gurdas Ji starts this Vaar by saying surrender to the Guru. So Bhai Gurdas ji is saying do this jap with the understanding of the Guru. Which is the Gurmantar given to us by the Gurus; Vaheguru simran. Vaheguru jap is not bound by the breath and those that do the Soham and Hans jap in this way will not be bound as well

I agree in gurmat, sohang should not seen as mantra but rather perception (he is me, i am him-tuhi mohi mohi tuhi antar kaiasa) and with that pure clear innocent love perception- do vahiguroo jaap. There is similiar technique give in indication given by sri guru gobind singh ji maharaj as well to advance seekers-gurmukhs/sikhs/khalsa - http://www.sikhsangat.com/index.php?/topic/74244-jagat-jot-japai-nis-basir/?p=606520

But seriously this is advance stuff and it takes time to develop that perception- innocent love, mind has to be cleared from pre conditioning/preconceived notions, still from forne(thoughts of anything but beloved) mind should have only unconditional love like child, its not a overnight thing. Unprepared seeker with conditional love towards Guru if they start japing on vahiguroo with the sohang perception can easily fall into ego/subtle ego/conditioning/road blocks, understanding is not good enough bro.

Even then by all means, in gurmat whatever type of jaap/perception you drawn too by gurbani, pick it up and go with that as it will naturally help you in spiritual development.

Difference is- Gurmat and most of us here in this topic acknowledge like various techniques just as valid including various reference points meant to be use as aids and those mentioned by you and bhai gurdas ji in gurbani to help seeker to get close to vahiguroo and merge in vahiguroo but unfortunately, you seem to reject compelling evidence- shabad surat techniques -reference points trikurti, nabhi mentioned in gurbani which are meant to be used as aids its not mandatory but its there to help seeker in spiritual development process in stages...i think if you can perceive all of this as part of spiritual development process in stages all of this will be clear.