Before Anand Karaj.. Phy Relation

[jkvlondon]

Everything is hukam no point feeling guilty about it. God willed it happened in the same way if god willed someone to remember god it will happen. God never said what is good and bad... humans did

by that reasoning you beat your wife, abuse kids etc that is all hukam where does 'free will' come into it ? surely there is some action to indicate our jot is upper in some of our karam rather than just our man

[hsingh68]

by that reasoning you beat your wife, abuse kids etc that is all hukam where does 'free will' come into it ? surely there is some action to indicate our jot is upper in some of our karam rather than just our man

There is no free will. karam sukaram aap karaen kimat kon apeva

You think you are separate to god thats where u are going wrong. Separateness =ego

[jkvlondon]

There is no free will. karam sukaram aap karaen kimat kon apeva

You think you are separate to god thats where u are going wrong. Separateness =ego

so does that mean since Ap karanhar hai then there is no adharm , no pap , no punn and also no dharam then we are punishing the adharmi lok for nothing ?

[hsingh68]

What you described above is nirgun paramatama. But since manifestation of hukam occurs through karma then it is god punishing and god doing good. Whatever happening is perfection

[jkvlondon]

What you described above is nirgun paramatama. But since manifestation of hukam occurs through karma then it is god punishing and god doing good. Whatever happening is perfection

so then you're original point is not correct if he feels sharam that is hukham too and a good sign that he is contrite at what happened. We should tell him what he has done is wrong i.e. in terms of gursikh's duty is to remind/correct another if they are stepping away from gurmat , so we complete our duty as siblings and it is the transgressor who then has to take the next step, i.e. he felt sharam and guilt (because he went away from Guru's path) that is why he was here and now he knows/has confirmed what the next proper step should be ...

[hsingh68]

Some feel guilty some don't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Whats is going to happen is going to happen.

[Akalifauj]

Some feel guilty some don't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Whats is going to happen is going to happen.

You don't have a clue about what Hukam is. In the way you describe it, we would not have Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji coming to Earth to teach Sikhi. For you everything bad or leads a person in the bad direction you want to describe as Hukam and everything good you want to put down as not following Hukam. You're a full r*tard, not half, but full. It is also Hukam that other members are tell you to get lost. Why have you not accepted this Hukam full r*tard? I don't like using the word r*tard, but you deserve it.

[sssSSinghh]

Some feel guilty some don't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Whats is going to happen is going to happen.

H Singh is right to some extent......see the thing is everything is in waheguru ji's hukam..good and bad deeds are done by us but everything happens to his will.

thats why not all of us can be mahapurakhs....even though we might all be amritdhari.and want to do bhagti 24/7, it just wont happen until god wills it.

everyone will be on a different avastha according to past karams, which are what govern what happens to us in this life.

everything is perfection (who are we to judge what happens according to his will), sometimes we have to a suffer in this life for bad deeds in past life....

but thats when guru sahib come into the picture to guide us (if you listen to their hukam and put it into practise in your life, they will guide you to the path of righteousness) but then how much love you have for them and how much you are willing to sacrifice for them depends on your pichle karam as well......

Like take for example this amrpreet guy, he was amritdhari and the girl who he was having sexual relations with was amritdhari as well, im sure they both whant to live chardikala jeevans as much as we do.

as amritdharis im sure they didnt whant to go against guru sahibs hukam, but at that moment in time they did what they did, even though they knew it was wrong. and now they will have to suffer for it no matter what they think (waheguru ji is just), what goes around comes around they will both regret their actions very soon.

but this is were people go wrong and start blaming waheguru ji's will for the actions they perform, the thing is its our actions not god's actions that govern gods will, what will happen to us in our future, and will make us either closer to god or further away (karmi apo apni kai nede kai door....)

if your amritdhari and commit a kurehit than your pretty much saying to guru sahib i dont need you im gonna do what i whant (manmat), good luck being on your own......you'll need it.

When H Singh says "Some feel guilty some don't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Whats is going to happen is going to happen"

Your in a confused state mate.

See the thing is even though we are living under gods hukam and will, we still have been given a capacity to think for ourselves unlike other beings on this planet, we can affect our own karam by doing ardas and following our guru sahibs hukam. otherwise their would be no need for religions on this planet no need for guru nanak dev ji to come and help us if they knew they coudln't affect us in any way whatsoever, we can make right choiches and wrong choices, as an amritdhari our choices should be governed by guru maharaj's hukam (you will understand their hukam the more gurbani you read and the more closer you get to guru sahib. we shouldnt follow our own mat.......we should live by Gurmat not our own manmat.

and feeling guilty about our wrong choices is a privillage cause it helps us atone for our mistakes, much better to feel guilty after doing a wrong rather than trying to justify it using your own manmat.....

it's not "what is going to happen is going to happen" it is how we live here in this life will affect what is going to happen to us in our future.....its all in perfection everyone will get what they deserve, some will get closer and some will make themselves further away from ataining enlightenment, depending on our karam in this life.

thats why you can hear some mahapurakhs say that if your amritdhari and commit to following gurmat and have a understanding of guru sahibs hukam yet still choose to make the wrong choices than you will suffer more than someone who has no idea of how to live their life righteously.

you can't blame our actions on waheguru's will,

but rather your actions are to blame for what happens to you in this life and in your future. Waheguru ji are just and you will always get what's coming to you (according to past actions)...

as amritdhari's we need to be Gurmukhs and live a jeevan which is centered around gurmat.....

[Akalifauj]

H Singh is right to some extent......see the thing is everything is in waheguru ji's hukam..good and bad deeds are done by us but everything happens to his will.

thats why not all of us can be mahapurakhs....even though we might all be amritdhari.and want to do bhagti 24/7, it just wont happen until god wills it.

everyone will be on a different avastha according to past karams, which are what govern what happens to us in this life.

everything is perfection (who are we to judge what happens according to his will), sometimes we have to a suffer in this life for bad deeds in past life....

but thats when guru sahib come into the picture to guide us (if you listen to their hukam and put it into practise in your life, they will guide you to the path of righteousness) but then how much love you have for them and how much you are willing to sacrifice for them depends on your pichle karam as well......

Like take for example this amrpreet guy, he was amritdhari and the girl who he was having sexual relations with was amritdhari as well, im sure they both whant to live chardikala jeevans as much as we do.

as amritdharis im sure they didnt whant to go against guru sahibs hukam, but at that moment in time they did what they did, even though they knew it was wrong. and now they will have to suffer for it no matter what they think (waheguru ji is just), what goes around comes around they will both regret their actions very soon.

but this is were people go wrong and start blaming waheguru ji's will for the actions they perform, the thing is its our actions not god's actions that govern gods will, what will happen to us in our future, and will make us either closer to god or further away (karmi apo apni kai nede kai door....)

if your amritdhari and commit a kurehit than your pretty much saying to guru sahib i dont need you im gonna do what i whant (manmat), good luck being on your own......you'll need it.

God brought the creation into existence and before creation I did not exist. I had no previous karam (good or bad). How could I, when I did not exist. How can one soul become a Brahmgyani and another goes through hell and through the cycle of birth and death. Neither soul did nothing in the beginning to achieve the initial position. You described an unjust God.

[hsingh68]

H Singh is right to some extent......see the thing is everything is in waheguru ji's hukam..good and bad deeds are done by us but everything happens to his will.

thats why not all of us can be mahapurakhs....even though we might all be amritdhari.and want to do bhagti 24/7, it just wont happen until god wills it.

everyone will be on a different avastha according to past karams, which are what govern what happens to us in this life.

everything is perfection (who are we to judge what happens according to his will), sometimes we have to a suffer in this life for bad deeds in past life....

but thats when guru sahib come into the picture to guide us (if you listen to their hukam and put it into practise in your life, they will guide you to the path of righteousness) but then how much love you have for them and how much you are willing to sacrifice for them depends on your pichle karam as well......

Like take for example this amrpreet guy, he was amritdhari and the girl who he was having sexual relations with was amritdhari as well, im sure they both whant to live chardikala jeevans as much as we do.

as amritdharis im sure they didnt whant to go against guru sahibs hukam, but at that moment in time they did what they did, even though they knew it was wrong. and now they will have to suffer for it no matter what they think (waheguru ji is just), what goes around comes around they will both regret their actions very soon.

but this is were people go wrong and start blaming waheguru ji's will for the actions they perform, the thing is its our actions not god's actions that govern gods will, what will happen to us in our future, and will make us either closer to god or further away (karmi apo apni kai nede kai door....)

if your amritdhari and commit a kurehit than your pretty much saying to guru sahib i dont need you im gonna do what i whant (manmat), good luck being on your own......you'll need it.

When H Singh says "Some feel guilty some don't. It doesn't matter. Doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Whats is going to happen is going to happen"

Your in a confused state mate.

See the thing is even though we are living under gods hukam and will, we still have been given a capacity to think for ourselves unlike other beings on this planet, we can affect our own karam by doing ardas and following our guru sahibs hukam. otherwise their would be no need for religions on this planet no need for guru nanak dev ji to come and help us if they knew they coudln't affect us in any way whatsoever, we can make right choiches and wrong choices, as an amritdhari our choices should be governed by guru maharaj's hukam (you will understand their hukam the more gurbani you read and the more closer you get to guru sahib. we shouldnt follow our own mat.......we should live by Gurmat not our own manmat.

and feeling guilty about our wrong choices is a privillage cause it helps us atone for our mistakes, much better to feel guilty after doing a wrong rather than trying to justify it using your own manmat.....

it's not "what is going to happen is going to happen" it is how we live here in this life will affect what is going to happen to us in our future.....its all in perfection everyone will get what they deserve, some will get closer and some will make themselves further away from ataining enlightenment, depending on our karam in this life.

thats why you can hear some mahapurakhs say that if your amritdhari and commit to following gurmat and have a understanding of guru sahibs hukam yet still choose to make the wrong choices than you will suffer more than someone who has no idea of how to live their life righteously.

you can't blame our actions on waheguru's will,

but rather your actions are to blame for what happens to you in this life and in your future. Waheguru ji are just and you will always get what's coming to you (according to past actions)...

as amritdhari's we need to be Gurmukhs and live a jeevan which is centered around gurmat.....

There is no free will. karma is unlimited the universe has always been there have been unlimited amount of big bangs and big crunches. There never was a start point. You describe an unjust god because if there was a starting point in karma then everyone must of been good to start of with. Then who made them do the bad action because obvs they didnt have any bad karma to do them. Who gave them those negative thougts to carry out those actions? That theory u used is one of the reasons people dont like the karma theory.