A Very Worrying And Disturbing Question, Needing To Be Answered...

[Not2Cool2Argue]

You know all the yogi things like kundalini opening, chakras opening, the lotus turning up right, nirvaana, ridhi sidhis. While we r not supposed to strive for these things. They do exist and do happen to meditators. So bani talks about these a little especially lotus turning upright. When doing simran many mystical things will happen. Even out of body experiences. A singh told me that he knew someone who did a lot of simran n oneday he saw his body lying on the sofa. He got so scared like i am dead omg wat do i do? When he finally entered his body he was still terrified. So he watched a lot of tv and played on computer n never did simran. So it would never happen again. He should have asked guru sahib to guide him through this obstacle in his meditation or mind. Cuz its really his minds problem. He should have learned that i am not a body but a soul from this experience. But he had too much moh attachment to his body.

Some other things happen too, people float, see ghosts many things but main thing is to have faith in waheguru. He created everything so it must be right n he will lead me right. Thats why a guru is needed. Path of the bhagats is hard full of many obstacles.

Anyway i know wat programs u r talking about. They wear blue n do simran or bani all day. Its not naamdhari or tarmala. These ppl as far as i know r good ppl. The ppl who scream or <banned word filter activated> maybe having their kundali opened. Or who knows? But just do simran with love n guruji will guide u through these mystical experiences gently so u dont have to scream n <banned word filter activated>. Of the traditional sants, i have only heard one sakhi of a sant with these experiences. He was doing simran n he started to feel free n light as a flower n very blissful.when he opened his eyes he was floating his head touching the ceiling. He immediately closed his eyes n started praying to guruji to please set him down. Please. Cuz if someone saw me they will think im a sant n i am not worth that. Please set me down. Please. Please. N when he opened his eyes he was on the floor n but his body felt heavy always afterward. Like his body was a burden he carried. N the body was not him. Anyways i think this or similar things happened to other sants too. But maybe thats why they all meditated in bhauras secluded places

[Not2Cool2Argue]

Btw the banned word is j3rk

[Akalifauj]

Simran Jee,

hats off, for this your such a beautiful and a brave question.

And for it, Gurbani has still a more beautiful answer.

For the Bani does not give any name or surname of anybody in particular, but definetely it can not be more clear and precise.

The Bani beautifully and in simple words says: Sadh Sangat othey janeeye, jithe Iko Naam vakhaniye.

That place, where the mahima is sung of Naam alone, know it to be the true Sadh kee Sangat.

Pen Jee, a true Gurmukh, is someone who has realized Wahiguru within, or better said, is one already with Him. And the proof of this comunion with Him, is that, he tells us according to the Bani at all times, that withdraw your attention, and cut your attachments from this mayevee creation, which you love so much, and for which you even fight and give your life for it, or even take life in name of so called dharam...

True Dharam, true karam, is only that jugtee, that bandagee, which takes us near towards Wahiguru. Not away.

Killing or suiciding in god´s name, is a sin, and as such, this will pull us to the hell like a powerful magnet. Because, nowhere in the Bani is written, by killing or dying for him, will take us to His darbar, rather, only, and only if we do His bhajan bandagee. So if we die, and do not do His bhajan bandagee, how will we ever merge in Him?

Have we ever stopped to think over this?

You see, the manmukhs, are mixing Gurmat with dirty politics and cultural aspects, thus diverting the goal, the purpose of Gurbani, and we happily follow them, it is like blind following blind.

What is the result of this? Well, a sure pifall, which will never allow us to merge in Him.

Gurbani, is the most perfect spiritual science, with no failures, but only a guarantee of becoming one with Him, if only we follow it implicitly.

If we feel, we are not reaching our goal, that is because we are polluted with misconceptions, by twisting the Bani to our manmat, not necesasarily done by us, but by the so called leaders.

So you see, that is for which we are advised Sadh kee Sangat, not because of anything else, but because we come to understand the real value of the paviter Gurbani, and only then, we strengthen our faith and love in Wahiguru Akal Purukh, and thus engage in the true bandagee or devotion, which is per Bani: Naam sumiran.

For this devotion, we do not have to do anything special, neither go anywhere, neither leave family, job, house, etc...

Because the Bani says : Har mandir eheu sareer hae, gyan ratan pargat hoe.

Our human body is the real temple, the real Gurdwara, where Sachay Patshah Wahiguru resides, there we knock at His door, by His Simran, and when He thinks fit for us, He opens the doors for us to enter within. Only that much is in our hands. we have to lay down as kookars at His door, when He the Malik, is pleased with us, He will let us in. We can only do ardaas in the form of Simran, we can not force Him, or manipulate Him, with our chaturaee.

To do His Simran for His realization, is His hukum, so naturally there is no second way, or third way, to have his Darshan and merge in Him.

Apart from this, everything else is paraphernalia.

Saacha Naao, Saacha Sahib. This is the only Truth.

Sat Sree Akal.

But this weaknesses, is sure to give them pain. As it is said what you sow, so shall you reap. This is the law of karma. You sow pain, just for the pleasure of your tongue, you shall reap pain and suffering. Or, where is it seen that, you sow chilies and one reaps apples?How stupid and silly to think that way. But,even to be silly or stupid, one has the freedom to be so.But the fact is nobody can manipulate the Bani just like that, as long as His Gurmukhs keep coming , and put us on the right tracks, by giving us the right view of their predecessors, in the sacred Bani.

I wanted to quote the above before i started my post because it brings the right kind of flavor to catching the fake.

Harsharan said the following by isolating a line from Gurbani to suit his thought.

For this devotion, we do not have to do anything special, neither go anywhere,neither leave family, job, house, etc...

Because the Bani says : Har mandir eheu sareer hae, gyan ratan pargat hoe.

Our human body is the real temple, the real Gurdwara, where Sachay Patshah Wahiguru resides, there we knock at His door, by His Simran, and when He thinks fit for us, He opens the doors for us to enter within

This one line of Gurbani has been misrepresented to suit the writer's theory; purposely presented in isolation. If you read the whole shabad, it is actually saying something else. Lets start off with common sense. If the body is the real temple then how come this body gets old and dies? If the writer had presented the whole shabad, we would be able to see a few lines down Guru Sahib says the body does not go beyond this world. Also Guru Sahib says this jugat ( what you see, the The world is har mandir. It is hard to believe someone who calls others foolish and silly would make such a big mistake of (should I dare to say it) manipulating Gurbani to suit his mind. So how can the body be the real temple? Looking at the whole Shabad anyone can see, so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir. The body which is manmukh is only a temple because it doesn't follow the teachings of Gurmat. Vaheguru is absorbed into everything and this whole world is har mandir....so what is the fake temple? As Gurbani says the body without Guru Sahib's teachings is fake. I am really baffled how Gurbani is being manipulated here. The consequences are very dangerous because what is stopping a Hindu, Sikh or anyone else from worshipping a human if the body is the real mandir? Additionally stone idol worship would not be wrong because in the same Shabad if another line is manipulated, the world is worthy of as jagut. Also there would not have been any need for Sri Harmandir Sahib to be built by Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji. The first pauri of the Shabad says the Har mandir has to be found through the Shabad Guru. So what is Guru Sahib saying, this body becomes the Har mandir (real temple) when you become one with Naam. Gian ratan is best defined as knowledge which is rare like a jewel. And purgat hoe is best defined as shown or revealed. When Guru Sahib says search inside, it doesn't mean to start searching with your abilities. It means to attune the mind to the Shabad Guru and with this true knowledge search for Akal Purkh. No surgeon has cut open a human and said, look i found your God hiding in your heart, hes the cause for heart failure.

Praising false knowledge shows a person has not done their homework and is blindly relying on another who in this case did manipulate Gurbani for his benefits.

Universe is spiritually sick with the same vices. Same fire is burning the world to destruction is inside of the body.

The whole shabad is on ang 1346 and please don't rely on the English translations. You will burn only yourself and no one else.

[simran345]

"So what is Guru Sahib saying, this body becomes the Har mandir (real temple) when you become one with Naam. Gian ratan is best defined as knowledge which is rare like a jewel. And purgat hoe is best defined as shown or revealed. When Guru Sahib says search inside, it doesn't mean to start searching with your abilities. It means to attune the mind to the Shabad Guru and with this true knowledge search for Akal Purkh. "

Akaalifauj ji I don't know about the interpretation but the way you have wrote, this is how I perceived it and understood it, not as the actual body. But I understand what you are saying as the body does not go with one.

[simran345]

I am putting the whole shabad on, so I can read it myself and understand it.

ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੩ ਬਿਭਾਸ

प्रभाती महला ३ बिभास

Parbẖāṯī mėhlā 3 bibẖās

Parbhati 3rd Guru. Bibhas

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥

Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.

There is but One God. By the True Guru's grace, is He obtained.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਵੇਖੁ ਤੂ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਤੇਰੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥

गुर परसादी वेखु तू हरि मंदरु तेरै नालि ॥

Gur parsādī vekẖ ṯū har manḏar ṯerai nāl.

See thou by the Guru's grace, that the God's mansion is (within) or (with) thee.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਖੋਜੀਐ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੋ ਲੇਹੁ ਸਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

हरि मंदरु सबदे खोजीऐ हरि नामो लेहु सम्हालि ॥१॥

Har manḏar sabḏe kẖojī▫ai har nāmo leho samĥāl. ||1||

God's mansion of found through the Name, so contemplate thou the God's Name.

ਮਨ ਮੇਰੇ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਪੈ ਰੰਗੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

मन मेरे सबदि रपै रंगु होइ ॥

Man mere sabaḏ rapai rang ho▫e.

O my soul, being imbued with the Lord's Name bliss is obtained.

ਸਚੀ ਭਗਤਿ ਸਚਾ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਪ੍ਰਗਟੀ ਸਾਚੀ ਸੋਇ ॥੧॥

ਰਹਾਉ ॥

सची भगति सचा हरि मंदरु प्रगटी साची सोइ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥

Sacẖī bẖagaṯ sacẖā har manḏar pargatī sācẖī so▫e. ||1|| rahā▫o.

True is the God's devotional service, true is the God's mansion and True is the glory, that becomes manifest through God. Pause.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਏਹੁ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਹੈ ਗਿਆਨਿ ਰਤਨਿ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਹੋਇ ॥

हरि मंदरु एहु सरीरु है गिआनि रतनि परगटु होइ ॥

Har manḏar ehu sarīr hai gi▫ān raṯan pargat ho▫e.

This body is the Lord's mansion wherein is revealed the jewel of Divine comprehension.

ਮਨਮੁਖ ਮੂਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਨੀ ਮਾਣਸਿ ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥੨॥

मनमुख मूलु न जाणनी माणसि हरि मंदरु न होइ ॥२॥

Manmukẖ mūl na jāṇnī māṇas har manḏar na ho▫e. ||2||

The egocentrics know not at all and say that within mortal is not the God's mansion.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਜੀਉ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਰਖਿਆ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥

हरि मंदरु हरि जीउ साजिआ रखिआ हुकमि सवारि ॥

Har manḏar har jī▫o sāji▫ā rakẖi▫ā hukam savār.

God's palace, the Sire God has created and He keeps it embellished in His will.

ਧੁਰਿ ਲੇਖੁ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਸੁ ਕਮਾਵਣਾ ਕੋਇ ਨ ਮੇਟਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੩॥

धुरि लेखु लिखिआ सु कमावणा कोइ न मेटणहारु ॥३॥

Ḏẖur lekẖ likẖi▫ā so kamāvaṇā ko▫e na metaṇhār. ||3||

One does only according to the predestined writ is; no one can erase that writ.

ਸਬਦੁ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿ ਸੁਖੁ ਪਾਇਆ ਸਚੈ ਨਾਇ ਪਿਆਰ ॥

सबदु चीन्हि सुखु पाइआ सचै नाइ पिआर ॥

Sabaḏ cẖīnėh sukẖ pā▫i▫ā sacẖai nā▫e pi▫ār.

Contemplating the Lord and loving the True Name, man is blessed with bliss.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਸਬਦੇ ਸੋਹਣਾ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਕੋਟੁ ਅਪਾਰ ॥੪॥

हरि मंदरु सबदे सोहणा कंचनु कोटु अपार ॥४॥

Har manḏar sabḏe sohṇā kancẖan kot apār. ||4||

God's palace is embellished with His Name, It is an invaluable fortress of gold.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਏਹੁ ਜਗਤੁ ਹੈ ਗੁਰ ਬਿਨੁ ਘੋਰੰਧਾਰ ॥

हरि मंदरु एहु जगतु है गुर बिनु घोरंधार ॥

Har manḏar ehu jagaṯ hai gur bin gẖoranḏẖār.

This world too it the Lord's mansion. Without the Guru, there is inky darkness in it.

ਦੂਜਾ ਭਾਉ ਕਰਿ ਪੂਜਦੇ ਮਨਮੁਖ ਅੰਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥੫॥

दूजा भाउ करि पूजदे मनमुख अंध गवार ॥५॥

Ḏūjā bẖā▫o kar pūjḏe manmukẖ anḏẖ gavār. ||5||

For the sake of another's love, the blind and unwise egocentrics worship the Lord.

ਜਿਥੈ ਲੇਖਾ ਮੰਗੀਐ ਤਿਥੈ ਦੇਹ ਜਾਤਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥

जिथै लेखा मंगीऐ तिथै देह जाति न जाइ ॥

Jithai lekẖā mangī▫ai ṯithai ḏeh jāṯ na jā▫e.

Where man is called to account, there go not the body and caste with him.

ਸਾਚਿ ਰਤੇ ਸੇ ਉਬਰੇ ਦੁਖੀਏ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥੬॥

साचि रते से उबरे दुखीए दूजै भाइ ॥६॥

Sācẖ raṯe se ubre ḏukẖī▫e ḏūjai bẖā▫e. ||6||

They, who are imbued with truth, are saved. Miserable are they, who bear love to another.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਧਾਨੁ ਹੈ ਨਾ ਬੂਝਹਿ ਮੁਗਧ ਗਵਾਰ ॥

हरि मंदर महि नामु निधानु है ना बूझहि मुगध गवार ॥

Har manḏar mėh nām niḏẖān hai nā būjẖėh mugaḏẖ gavār.

Within the God's mansion is the Treasure of the Name, but the foolish brutes know it not.

ਗੁਰ ਪਰਸਾਦੀ ਚੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਆ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖਿਆ ਉਰਿ ਧਾਰਿ ॥੭॥

गुर परसादी चीन्हिआ हरि राखिआ उरि धारि ॥७॥

Gur parsādī cẖīnĥi▫ā har rākẖi▫ā ur ḏẖār. ||7||

By the Guru's grace, I have realised this and now I keep the Lord enshrined in my mind.

ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਣੀ ਗੁਰ ਤੇ ਜਾਤੀ ਜਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਰਤੇ ਰੰਗੁ ਲਾਇ ॥

गुर की बाणी गुर ते जाती जि सबदि रते रंगु लाइ ॥

Gur kī baṇī gur ṯe jāṯī jė sabaḏ raṯe rang lā▫e.

They, who are imbued with the love of the Name, know the Guru's word, by the Guru's grace.

ਪਵਿਤੁ ਪਾਵਨ ਸੇ ਜਨ ਨਿਰਮਲ ਹਰਿ ਕੈ ਨਾਮਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥੮॥

पवितु पावन से जन निरमल हरि कै नामि समाइ ॥८॥

Paviṯ pāvan se jan nirmal har kai nām samā▫e. ||8||

Pure, immaculate and blotless are those men, who merge in the God's Name.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਕਾ ਹਾਟੁ ਹੈ ਰਖਿਆ ਸਬਦਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥

हरि मंदरु हरि का हाटु है रखिआ सबदि सवारि ॥

Har manḏar har kā hāt hai rakẖi▫ā sabaḏ savār.

God's palace is also the God's shop, which He keeps embellished with His Name.

ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਸਉਦਾ ਏਕੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਲੈਨਿ ਸਵਾਰਿ ॥੯॥

तिसु विचि सउदा एकु नामु गुरमुखि लैनि सवारि ॥९॥

Ŧis vicẖ sa▫uḏā ek nām gurmukẖ lain savār. ||9||

In that shop is the merchandise of the one Name, with which the Guru-wards decorate themselves.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਮਨੁ ਲੋਹਟੁ ਹੈ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਦੂਜੈ ਭਾਇ ॥

हरि मंदर महि मनु लोहटु है मोहिआ दूजै भाइ ॥

Har manḏar mėh man lohat hai mohi▫ā ḏūjai bẖā▫e.

This iron dross like mind is within the Lord's mansion and it is lured by duality.

ਪਾਰਸਿ ਭੇਟਿਐ ਕੰਚਨੁ ਭਇਆ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥੧੦॥

पारसि भेटिऐ कंचनु भइआ कीमति कही न जाइ ॥१०॥

Pāras bẖeti▫ai kancẖan bẖa▫i▫ā kīmaṯ kahī na jā▫e. ||10||

Meeting with the Guru, the philosopher's stone, it is transmuted into gold and then its worth can be told not.

ਹਰਿ ਮੰਦਰ ਮਹਿ ਹਰਿ ਵਸੈ ਸਰਬ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਸੋਇ ॥

हरि मंदर महि हरि वसै सरब निरंतरि सोइ ॥

Har manḏar mėh har vasai sarab niranṯar so▫e.

Within the God's palace, abides God. He is contained amidst all.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਵਣਜੀਐ ਸਚਾ ਸਉਦਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੧੧॥੧॥

नानक गुरमुखि वणजीऐ सचा सउदा होइ ॥११॥१॥

Nānak gurmukẖ vaṇjī▫ai sacẖā sa▫uḏā ho▫e. ||11||1||

Dealing with God, through the Guru, O Nanak, the true merchandise is purchased.

SGGS Ang 1346

I agree with you, if one can read Gurmukhi they should read it themselves or the transliteration, in order to try to understand it themselves.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Do not think much.

Sometimes, people want to be famous.

They may attract the attention of others

by way of doing some extra ordinary.

Nothing more. Hope, understand.

I wish I could like this, but sadly your anonymous.

[harsharan000]

First of all,

Simran Jee, for me you are right

and to you akali fauj

the demeaning coming from you, is the only thing expected from you. That is what you know, and by constant indulging in it, you become perfect with each post of that type.

Not that, you have not the capacity in thinking and behaving rightly, but it seems, you are true to this your present nature. Well, you can try and behave arrogantly, disrespectingly, but that only shows your true colours of what you truly are.

You like to manipulate things to your points of views, and if you do not agree with others, you demean others maliciously without any sense.

When we say, Har mandir ehu sareer hae .... This means, it is within this body temple named so by Guru Jee in the Bani, not because the body is literally the temple, but because, it is there where, each and everyone can go within, through His simran and find Him with His Grace.

Each and everyone has to go within their body to do so, nobody can enter others bodies to realize Him.

Is that clear now akali fauj?

Let us see some of your own baffled manipulated narrow minded views:

So how can the body be the real temple?

Looking at the whole Shabad anyone can see, so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir.

The body which is manmukh is only a temple because it doesn't follow the teachings of Gurmat.

You must remember, Wahiguru is much present in the Gurmukhs, as well as in the thieves, dacoits, or even in those who do not believe in Him...

Vaheguru is absorbed into everything and this whole world is har mandir....

Wahiguru is definetely everywhere,

so what is the fake temple?

Fake is the mind, maya ..... which are the barriers between us and Him

As Gurbani says the body without Guru Sahib's teachings is fake.

Totaly wrong.

The body even with His teachings is fake.

Do not mistake the perisahble body with the soul, which is the truth in the body, as it is of the same essence of Wahiguru´s Jot.

A particle of His Consciousness, which by permeating and staying in those bodies, brings life into them, and while leaving, makes them lifeless.

I am really baffled how Gurbani is being manipulated here.

The same with me, here about you

The consequences are very dangerous because what is stopping a Hindu, Sikh or anyone else from worshipping a human if the body is the real mandir? Additionally stone idol worship would not be wrong because in the same Shabad if another line is manipulated, the world is worthy of as jagut.

Idol worship is always wrong, as it is lifeless, consciousless, soul less ....

Also there would not have been any need for Sri Harmandir Sahib to be built by Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji. The first pauri of the Shabad says the Har mandir has to be found through the Shabad Guru. So what is Guru Sahib saying, this body becomes the Har mandir (real temple) when you become one with Naam.

Again you are wrong here. The body is Har Mandir, only because He can be found within, not any other place. Now if you inspire others to go and find Wahiguru any other place than within us, it is you, who is going against Gurbani, so yes, in that case you are very dangerous with your distorted and senseless views.

Can you please tell us, what is your definition of Shabad Guru? And how to contact Him, or how to become one with Naam? Please elaborate these points to the sangat.

Gian ratan is best defined as knowledge which is rare like a jewel. And purgat hoe is best defined as shown or revealed.

Fortunately, here you are right.

When Guru Sahib says search inside, it doesn't mean to start searching with your abilities. It means to attune the mind to the Shabad Guru and with this true knowledge search for Akal Purkh. No surgeon has cut open a human and said, look i found your God hiding in your heart, hes the cause for heart failure.

Once again I agree with you here, only because at least and lastly, you say something with sense.

Praising false knowledge shows a person has not done their homework and is blindly relying on another who in this case did manipulate Gurbani for his benefits.
Universe is spiritually sick with the same vices.

You are wrong here, Gurbani can not be manipulated, it can be misinterpreted, and that also, because of the manmukhta , maya, mind, and Kalyug, or the deep rooted evil in those people.

And remember Gurbani is not some type business as you want to make us see, to make personal benefits .... You are absolutely wrong here again....

The whole shabad is on ang 1346 and please don't rely on the English translations. You will burn only yourself and no one else.

Again you are wrong here, we should not rely on the english translations only if they are wrong, not otherwise.

If that was the case, first of all we should not take seriously any of your nonsense in english, as it is with that means, you are trying to explain your senseless beliefs....

Gurbani can never burn anyone, it is Amrit. Nobody can burn anyone, as all are already burnt with agyanta. It is only by Gurbani and Sadh Sangat, and above all His Grace, for which one is rejuvenated.

Same fire is burning the world to destruction is inside of the body.

This your line, is the most manmukhta and foolishness which one can ever read. Above you say, the jugat is Har Mandir, and now you say, there is fire burning the world...

How come fire come from where Wahiguru resides? There are many contradictions in what you mostly say or write....

LOL.

Clear up your polluted mind, before you start demeaning others.... and giving an false image of you knowing Gurbani.

When the truth is, you are full of negativity.

Otherwise as I have said, you do have a lot of potential of being a good person and knowledgeable.... It is only clear, you are insecure due to unreasonable jealousy.

Brother in Guramt, nobody is superior or inferior we are all same, if ever any mahima it is only of Wahiguru, otherwise we are all kookars at His door.

Sat Sree Akal.

[harsharan000]

Also there would not have been any need for Sri Harmandir Sahib to be built by Sri Guru Arjan Dev ji.

Fifth Patshahee,

built Harmandir Sahib, out of His mercy and Grace for mankind. You may have diferent opinions as always you do...but in my opinion He did so for several reasons.

He wanted to give an opportunity to us, to do sewa.

Then He did so, to bless us manmukhs to listen katha keertan of Wahiguru, in order to generate love for His Lotus Feet firmly within us.

And above all, to perpetuate Gurbani for the coming generations, and give the wadbhagee jeevas the privilege to turn out from manmukhs into Gurmukhs, by implementing Gurmat in our lives, not by mere boasting.

The first pauri of the Shabad says the Har mandir has to be found through the Shabad Guru.

So what is Guru Sahib saying, this body becomes the Har mandir (real temple) when you become one with Naam

This your own manmat, it is totally wrong again.

Or do you think, that the body beomes imperishable by becoming one with Naam?

You are mistaking, materialism with spirituality

.

It is the subtle soul which becomes one with Naam by devotion, irrespective of, if the material bodies exist or not, because the soul continues existing, and continues its journey within the spiritual planes according to its merits or demerits.

So in reality, Sach Khand is the real temple of Wahiguru, and as such is the real Har Mandir, made by Himself ,and it is His permanent abode.

Once again, the subtle spiritual creation is nowhere outside in the mayavee creation, but deep within our human body, and so Sach Khand itself is within our body at subtle levels, it is not perceived by cutting the body nor by any scientific device, because it is not something physical, neither astral, nor causal.

The body is made of 5 tattwas, and as such per laws of Nature, it has to perish one day.

But that perishing of the body, does not means atma or Parmatma cease to exist.

Wahiguru´s presence is self sufficient to make that place the real tempe, irrespective of, if the jeevas are aware of it or not.

Regarding Wahiguru, First Patsahee says: thapia na jae, keeta na hoveh.

God can not be created nor established at any material places by us. He is all Consciousness, His one ray as soul, infuses life into that body which enters. So everything is by His Hukum, not by our chaturaee.

And nobody can go against His Hukum.

Gurmukhs, Guru Sahibans, come to make us aware of His Hukum, and make us understand it, so that we may live in His will, act accordingly, and thus merge in Him.

And all this happens within this body at subtle spiritual levels.

Another of your own manmat line, which is too much of nonsense:

so long as the shabad Guru is the teacher of the body it is the real mandir.

Once again you are totally wrong, the Shabad Guru as you say, can never ever be the teacher of the body, because the body is insentient, it has no consciousness by itself.

You can do exercises to increase the muscles, or you can become fat by eating too much, or get slim by dieting and so on ...but the spiritual sikh of the Shabd Guru is the soul, not the body.

You do not even differentiate the basics of spirituality and you are set out to judge others.

This shows in your own terms, you have not done your homework.

Shame on you.!!!

Sat Sree Akal.