Buddhism

[Pheena]

not a problem ms514 , i'll be more clear next time :wub:

I don’t think it’s according to Gyani jee or Sahib Singh, but it is according to Guru Nanak Dev Jee who has written it in Sri Japjee Sahib. Also, you have to understand what Buddhism is all about. It is about liberation, but they don’t give God any importance. Infact they don’t even believe in the concept of a God. They want to achieve liberation without giving emphasis on God, which I think is not possible. At most they will reach Gian Khand, but not any further. Buddha himself may or may not have believed in God as he was silent on this issue, but Buddhism definitely does not.

Who Translated the words of Guru Nanak that speak of Buddha being only in Giaan Khand?

There are many many paths to the Infinite and 2 being the main Methods of approach. Thru Surrender and Grace and Thru Self-Effort. Both paths being contradictory are very much effective. Sikhi is the path of Grace and surrender, Buddhism is Not. Buddha did not sing about what he found, he did not express it thru music, he expressed it thru Silence. So does either expression make one think he did not find the

source. To claim such authority of Buddha of being not Mukhat is a misinterpatation of his expression.

How many times does the Guru Granth Sahib speak about the unspeakable, yet in the end Guru says, that he cannot be spoken about. He cannot be explained.

It is rather intricate and complicated. There are only two s

ystems of sadhana -- of spiritual practice. The basis of one system is resolve, and that of the other is surrender. Both lead to the same goal but they are diametrically the opposite of each other.

The methods of Mahavir, Buddha, Patanjali and Gorakh are based on resolve, on effort. All life-energy is devoted to the effort. When there is absolutely no energy remaining outside that effort, when you have given yourself up to it wholly, that very day the event will occur; when you have left nothing for yourself, your resolve will be complete and perfect.

Nanak, Meera and Chaitanya have followed the second path, the way of surrender. It is entirely different; the seeker believes that nothing happens through one's own effort -- only through His grace do we achieve. Now this does not mean you make no effort, but don't put too much faith in your prowess. Try you must, but remember that the outcome will happen only through His grace.

This is very, very important. If you rely only on your own labors, you will strengthen your ego. Therefore it is easy for a yogi to be proud, because he begins to believe that things are happening because of him.

Once this ego develops it is very difficult to be rid of it. It is easier to be rid of the arrogance of wealth, it is not difficult to renounce the pride of position, but it is very difficult to be rid of the ego of one's own endeavors.

There is every possibility of the seeker feeling that whatever is happening is because of him; the I becomes primary and God secondary. Because of this danger, Mahavir, Patanjali, Gorakh and others who follow this path lay great stress on the annihilation of the ego.

Make the effort, put your all into it, but renounce your ego is what they stress so emphatically. If the ego functions along with the effort, it will get stronger and stronger. Then you feel in whatever you do, I am doing it: I have done japa, I have done penance, I have attained occult powers. And if this arrogance is not eradicat

ed in good time, you will have opened many doors but not the last. All your efforts will have been in vain.

Therefore, Nanak says: Try with all your might, but remember, His grace alone can bring about the happening. With this precaution, the risk in the method of resolve is removed. But there is a different risk in the path of surrender, which arises at the very beginning.

The danger is in feeling that there is no need to do anything. If the happening occurs only through His grace, what can we do? It becomes an excuse for not doing anything. So you remain involved in all the useless daily activities of life. You may assume it is not yet His will that you should set out on this path -- and so you wait. Meanwhile you indulge in all that is most contemptible in life; you wander in the maze of the material world.

Thus the danger in the path of surrender lies at the very onset -- you might become lost in laziness and inertia.

So try you must in the fullest measure, while remembering that the fruit of the endeavor is attained only through His grace. Therefore Nanak repeats over and over: His grace showers only on those within the gaze of His compassionate vision. On whom does this compassion descend but those who prepare themselves for it through their efforts?

Understand that in everyday life the meaning of a compassionate look is quite different. Does He too show partiality? Is He kind to His own but lets the rest be? Does He select a few to shower with His grace while He leaves others to suffer? We cannot associate God with such injustices. Things would become meaningless if a sinner might receive His grace while a saint is deprived of it. There would be no sense in doing anything.

No, this is not the meaning of the compassionate look. It is not that He chooses someone that suits His whim or fancy, or that He favors those who flatter and sing His praises. His grace showers on all, but there are some who have turned their pots upside down, so that they never get fille

d. If your pot is upright, it is bound to be filled. And don't imagine that your upright pot caused the grace to shower! Grace showers all the time.

Nanak says the filling takes place by His compassion, but some effort you have to make -- by placing your vessel in the proper position to receive.

And you will have to see that there are no cracks or holes in it, that it is not lying upside down or slanting so that the grace cannot reach the mouth of your vessel and enter it.

His grace pours on everyone incessantly. It is you who are not standing upright to receive it or in your twisting and turning, it slides off you.

There is an apparent contradiction: if you are deprived of grace you have only yourself to blame, but if you attain grace it is only because of Him. You attain through Him, lose through your own self.

When following the path of surrender it is imperative to remember that if I am losing, it is I who am wrong; if I am gaining, it is entirely by His grace. This way the ego cannot be fattened, because there is no space within for it to expand -- or even to exist. He who has no ego finds that God is within him.

To believe in God or to not Believe in God is irrelivent. It is about KNOWING that he exists. Either your Faith and Surrender takes you there in which it is requried for you to believe in him before your journey or you find out when you get there.

[Pheena]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

please tell me wat this means

raam rheem puraan kuraan inek kahain mathek ik na manyao

bhula  chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

Many have spoken, Ram has spoken, Puraana have spoken, Korans have spoken, but you have accepted to neither.

Guru ji is not Slandering Anyone or Anything. Guru ji is being Sarcastic in the sense that How many have spoke of the ONE, and you have accepented none of the paths, you are still walking on this earth without him in your heart. Without his rememberence. Guru ji is trying to make you think

[r.singh]

To believe in God or to not Believe in God is irrelivent. It is about KNOWING that he exists. Either your Faith and Surrender takes you there in which it is requried for you to believe in him before your journey or you find out when you get there.

This sounds good, but doesn't really mean anything at all. You don't have to believe in god, you just have to know? So I can know that god exists but yet have no belief in god and still reach god. That makes a lot of sense. I guess we can overlook the thousands of references in Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee that mention faith in the creator and explicit meditation on god.

I recall in a post some time back, you also gave some strange meaning to the 'ram raheem, puraan quraan inek kahin mat, ek na maniyo' tuk. You seem to just make up whatever meanings that suit you. I'm going to just repost what I posted last time.

Pheena, you gave your interpretation of the line 'Raam raheem, puraan quraan inek kahin mat, ek na maniyo'. Could you explain how you arrived at your interpretation? As far as I know, I've never heard anyone say that Guru Jee is talking about us in this line. Every interpretation that I've ever seen clearly says that Guru Gobind Singh Jee is talkin

g to Mahakaal (god) about himself. In fact, in this whole Svaiyeeaa and accompanying Dohra, Guru Saahib is addressing god and telling about himself. I'm no expert on Gurbanee Viyakarn, but if you talk to anyone who knows the grammatical rules of gurbanee, they'll tell you the same. Basically, this line is saying that Raam, Mohumad, the purans, the quran have told of their various paths but I don't have faith in any of these.

In the second line, janiyo does not mean understood. Check up any good nitnem steek. It means 'apnaayiaa' or to accept, take on, follow (as one's own). In this line, Guru Gobind Singh Jee is saying that the simratees, the shasters, the veds (the various holy books of hindu's), all of these tell of various ways to attain god, but I haven't taken on or accepted any of these methods or ways.

Then guru saahib says, "Sri asipaan kirpaa tumree kar, mai na kahiyo, sabh tohi bakhaaniyo" Here, Guru Saahib clearly adresses God as 'Sri Asipaan' and says that it's with your kirpaa that this has happened ('this' referring to the stating of gods praises, or basically, that this banee has come due to your kirpaa), I (Guru Saahib) haven't said anything, you got me to tell all this.

My translating abilities aren't the greatest, so it's best if you find a Steek with this banee in it and read the punjabee translations. But your translations make no sense and are in contradiction to any translation that I've seen. The translations I've given are based on the Choupaee Saahib Steek by Rajinder Singh Leen and Joginder Singh Talwara (part of the nitnem steek by Prof Saahib Singh). If anyone has any other interpretations, please share them and explain how you got them (for example, Khalistani, do you know how the Taksalee Singhs interpret this svayeeaa? I always thought it was similar to what I've said, but I'd like to double check).

To sum up, Guru Saahib didn't accept any other method of worship other

than the gurmat way. This doesn't mean that he condemned everyone else or that other methods are completely useless. They may have some use, but don't come close to gurmat. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to fit our politically correct world view, so we try changing it. Guru Granth Saahib even calls hindoos blind and muslims one eyed and also strongly criticizes the yogi path. So how can any of these paths be considered worthy in light of gurmat? We should respect people's right to choose whatever path they want and love them as our fellow human beings, but don't assume that all paths will take you to god. If they did, what was then the need for Sikhee? Also, a sikh should be firm in their own faith and not be dabbling in others. There is a sakhi in which Guru Saahib (Guru Arjun Dev Jee I believe) advises someone that you can't cross this ocean by trying to ride in two boats at once. Pick one.

[>Bikramjit Singh<]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

R.Singh Veerji

You are quite right. The tuk has been translated wrongly by Pheena Ji. Every Steek I have come across translates the line in the way that you have quoted. Guru Gobind Singh is saying that he rejects the tenets espoused by the Korans and the Purans as well as the Ram of the Hindus and the Raheem of the Muslims.

GurFateh

Bikramjit

[Dal_Khalsa]

pheena

have u quoted osho somewhere in this discussion...the english version of his book ek omnkar satnaam..

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

pheena je, where did u get santhia??

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Pheena]

This sounds good, but doesn't really mean anything at all.  You don't have to believe in god, you just have to know?  So I can know that god exists but yet have no belief in god and still reach god.  That makes a lot of sense.  I guess we can overlook the thousands of references in Sri Guru Granth Saahib Jee that mention faith in the creator and explicit meditation on god.

I recall in a post some time back, you also gave some strange meaning to the 'ram raheem, puraan quraan inek kahin mat, ek na maniyo' tuk.  You seem to just make up whatever meanings that suit you.  I'm going to just repost what I posted last time.

When you have known that God exists, You will know where he exists, When you find him you will cease to be. God and you(ego) cannot co-exist. I didn't fully explain my point, because i thought it was obvious of what the effects will be when you have known of his existence. Until then it is all based on beliefs and faith. The path of a Sikh requires Faith and Belief that he exists. He is not dependent upon you believing in him or not. He does not shower you with his grace because you believe in him. He is equally compassionate to everyone...even Buddhist.

Meditation requries no Belief system, no believing in God, no pre-requisites. An Atheist can Meditate, but he will no l

onger be the same......Your existence is enough.....It simply turns you inwards, turn you on to your own self. When you turn inward, you find your true self and you begin to see the Truth inwards and outwards. You Find Truth all around you. Truth is his Name. And so you have Foudn Truth, Call it God, Call it Waheguru. It is of little importence. But you have Found it. Compassion and love dominate the mind when truth is found.

There is no need to compare and belittle others path. I am trying to seperate the 2 the best i understand how :wub: .

Suit me for What?? Im not here to scramble everyones mind. I am on the same path as you. It is not my interpetation of that line. It is the Interpetatin that i've heard. I don't have no agenda to make everyone agree with me or follow my views. I don't just make things up. Simply because you have never heard of such translation, means that it is wrong?? You refrence it to the other translations to reach a conclusion that it is wrong. That is your Conclusion. I never said, the translation i've posted is the only one. Perhaps you are correct in correcting me. My own ignorece could be blinding me from what you are saying.... We learn from each other, i am not refuting your post, simply leveling the playing field. I welcome your input, for it makes me think and question.

I will find the Audio from which i heard this translation and i'll let you take it how it is so. :D

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

bhagat fareed je says whoever doesnt belive in god, there head shud be cut off and used for firewood

a athiest or manmukh can do all the so called meditaion they want, but it wont go anyhwere useful

meditation on naam and bani is wat maharaj je says is the only thing that will cross u over the world ocean

remeber wat bani says

without satguru mukhti cannot be attained

SATHguru means the TRUE GURU

not anybody

there has only been ONE satguru in all of mankinds history

dhan dhan baba nanak dev je when go himself came in satguru avtaar roop

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

[Pheena]

****************************************

Sorat`h, Ninth Mehl:

sorath mehlaa 9.

O mother, my mind is out of control.

maa-ee man mayro bas naahi.

Night and day, it runs after sin and corruption. How can I restrain it? ||1||Pause||

nis baasur bikhi-an ka-o Dhaavat kihi biDh roka-o taahi. ||1|| rahaa-o.

He listens to the teachings of the Vedas, the Puraanas and the Simritees, but he does not enshrine them in his heart, even for an instant.

bayd puraan simrit kay mat sun nimakh na hee-ay basaavai.

Engrossed in the wealth and women of others, his life passes away uselessly. ||1||

par Dhan par daaraa si-o rachi-o birthaa janam siraavai. ||1||

He has gone insane with the wine of Maya, and does not understand even a bit of spiritual wisdom.

mad maa-i-aa kai bha-i-o baavro soojhat nah kachh gi-aanaa.

Deep within his heart, the Immaculate Lord dwells, but he does not know this secret. ||2|| ghat hee bheetar basat niranjan taa ko maram na jaanaa. ||2||

When I came to the Sanctuary of the Holy Saints, all my evil-mindedness was dispelled. jab hee saran saaDh kee aa-i-o durmat sagal binaasee.

Then, O Nanak, I remembered the Chintaamani, the jewel which fulfills all desires, and the noose of Death was snapped. ||3||7||

tab naanak chayti-o chintaaman kaatee jam kee faasee. ||3||7||

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Are these the Same Vedas and P

urana, Can the same not be said about Gurbani, that we listen to the Shabad, but do not enshrine them in our hearts??

Im not making the meaning out to what I want, but pointing out that the Same Vedas and Purana are given higher status.

Make me UNDERSTAND.

[Gupt daasan daas]

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!

again

this is not reffering to the vedas being true

even though they have much truth in them

its tallking about falsehood and hypocirasy

bhula chuka maf

Waheguroo Jee Ka Khalsa!

Waheguroo Jee Kee Fateh!!