Sikh Parenting Issues

[Guest Jacfsing2]

You should listen to Bhangra music. Sikhs aren't allowed to drink alcohol but most people think they are. In fact it is a huge stereotype now, that all Sikhs do is Bhangra and drink. Patiala Peg and all that bs.

Bhangra music has other things than just drinking, it promotes Kaam and Caste.

[dallysingh101]

Bhangra music has other things than just drinking, it promotes Kaam and Caste.

Let's not forget grinning and waggling your head side to side like a demented id1ot.

[JagsawSingh]

Let's not forget grinning and waggling your head side to side like a demented id1ot.

I don't do bhangra and I'm not a fan of bhangra music so I don't want you think I'm attempting to be a master of the art. I'm anything but. However, I should point out to you that bhngra by definition is the dance of the single most joyous.....most happiest time of the year for the farmer. All year round he works to the bone for this day. The day his crops yield. Harvest day. A day to discard the dour garb of the farmer and wear the brightest colours and display sheer unrefined joy. What I'm saying is that you have to understand what bhangra is. Its not the dance of the urban accountant to display joy on tax assessment day.

You have to understand its rural significance. Another example is the way that, in the last 10 years everyone in India started saying 'chakk de phatte'. Rural families like mine have had it as a household expression since the day we were born because in our families it was always an everyday expression part and parcel of our occupation. You see, traditionally, when working out in the fields, the water drainage system is controlled by a series of wooden blocks...(phatte). When wanting th water to flow into a particular field the farmer shouts out to his counterpart at th top of his voice "chak de phatte" !

So, to recap, bhangra music and dance belongs to all of us equally but one needs to appreciate rural farming Punjab in order to understand aspects of it such as 'brrrrrrr' (herding the goats) , chake de phatte (water irrigation to the fields), smiling and bright colour clothes. Once you take away the essence of bhangra it is no longer bhangra.

[dallysingh101]

I don't do bhangra and I'm not a fan of bhangra music so I don't want you think I'm attempting to be a master of the art. I'm anything but. However, I should point out to you that bhngra by definition is the dance of the single most joyous.....most happiest time of the year for the farmer. All year round he works to the bone for this day. The day his crops yield. Harvest day. A day to discard the dour garb of the farmer and wear the brightest colours and display sheer unrefined joy. What I'm saying is that you have to understand what bhangra is. Its not the dance of the urban accountant to display joy on tax assessment day.

You have to understand its rural significance. Another example is the way that, in the last 10 years everyone in India started saying 'chakk de phatte'. Rural families like mine have had it as a household expression since the day we were born because in our families it was always an everyday expression part and parcel of our occupation. You see, traditionally, when working out in the fields, the water drainage system is controlled by a series of wooden blocks...(phatte). When wanting th water to flow into a particular field the farmer shouts out to his counterpart at th top of his voice "chak de phatte" !

So, to recap, bhangra music and dance belongs to all of us equally but one needs to appreciate rural farming Punjab in order to understand aspects of it such as 'brrrrrrr' (herding the goats) , chake de phatte (water irrigation to the fields), smiling and bright colour clothes. Once you take away the essence of bhangra it is no longer bhangra.

Okay, but it still morphed into a bunch of kunjar-khana. The original platform for grooming and promiscuity amongst apnay was bhangra gigs. We know that in retrospect.

We know that it came parceled with alcohol drinking to fudhoo degrees too.

It was also the main vehicle for casteism, and encouraged jats (and others to drink). Sullay went out of their way to frequent these things but prevented their females going, because it was an 'easy lay' for them.

I understand what you are saying though, with bhangra in its historical context, and amongst family at celebrations I have no problem with it whatsoever.

But, what it brought into the community (that we are only really in a position to judge now in the UK), was/is seriously messed up. It gave such a bad impression of apnay amongst other asians.

I'm all for intelligent heart felt Panjabi folk songs, but the whole genre that emerged with its encouraging caste obnoxiousness, drinking, illicit romances has played its part in lowering standards in our community.

Like I said, personally I would have no problem with people doing bhangra in the safe environment of family gatherings, but I would not want any daughter, sister, niece of mine to be exposed to the kunjar khana that goes on in the bhangra gig business. I would like to think that the males too would have more class than that. I know youngsters like to see these things for the experience, but regularly going is a bad sign for families.

Hell, do bhangra gigs even happen anymore?

PS - The dressing up in garish colours and grinning and prancing around does look seriously gay - I've heard others say as much to me as well. So I'm not alone in thinking this.

[InderjitS]

Our community is drinking far far less than it did in the 1970's,80's and 90's. When I was a kid, for example, there were always blind drunk people at weddings but I don't think I've even seen a legless blind drunk person at a wedding in the last 10 years or so. There's been a complete culture shift. The drinking seems very moderated and when it comes to weddings I think the biggest positive factor in that has been the way that husbands sit with their wives and kids as a family unit. This creates and fosters a very moderated outlook.

But, even when we did drink alot (and I too used to drink) our alcohol consumption was always far lower than the white British. The problem however, was that we as a race, like the native americans and aborigines, lack that certain enzyme that helps break down alcohol. Thus it had a far bigger effect on us compared to the white britons. Bigger effect of course means negative effect and of course you're right in the fact that it caused alot of family heartaches.

First I've heard of Punjabis lacking alcohol dehydrogenase. It is lacking in Orientals massively and I find out when a Chinese friend in college downed a can of Super T and vomited for the rest of the day.

Punjabis favour spirits to beers, hence the popularity of Bacardi/Whisky.

Would help if Marriages were based a bit more on the couple getting to know each other first rather than just marrying as complete strangers, this seems to be a worrying trend, especially those that are using marriage as a means of immigration. I've seen that take it's toll as 2 incompatible people get married and then end fighting over random things.

Depends what you mean by getting to know each other. I'm all for the traditional way of arranged marriages.

[Kira]

Depends what you mean by getting to know each other. I'm all for the traditional way of arranged marriages.

I have nothing against arranged marriages, but in many cases the bride and groom so to speak don't really know much about each other. Of course you could argue their marriage is a journey etc but in many cases their personalities don't exactly match up. This then leads to chaos and discord in the household as arguments may break out.

Many Sikhs now are getting involved in all this immigration stuff. Marrying complete strangers and then struggling in their married lives once they use the stranger to get abroad. In many cases the woman suffers, in others the guy. But really they all do.

[JagsawSingh]

Okay, but it still morphed into a bunch of kunjar-khana. The original platform for grooming and promiscuity amongst apnay was bhangra gigs. We know that in retrospect.

We know that it came parceled with alcohol drinking to fudhoo degrees too.

It was also the main vehicle for casteism, and encouraged jats (and others to drink). Sullay went out of their way to frequent these things but prevented their females going, because it was an 'easy lay' for them.

I understand what you are saying though, with bhangra in its historical context, and amongst family at celebrations I have no problem with it whatsoever.

But, what it brought into the community (that we are only really in a position to judge now in the UK), was/is seriously messed up. It gave such a bad impression of apnay amongst other asians.

I'm all for intelligent heart felt Panjabi folk songs, but the whole genre that emerged with its encouraging caste obnoxiousness, drinking, illicit romances has played its part in lowering standards in our community.

Like I said, personally I would have no problem with people doing bhangra in the safe environment of family gatherings, but I would not want any daughter, sister, niece of mine to be exposed to the kunjar khana that goes on in the bhangra gig business. I would like to think that the males too would have more class than that. I know youngsters like to see these things for the experience, but regularly going is a bad sign for families.

Hell, do bhangra gigs even happen anymore?

PS - The dressing up in garish colours and grinning and prancing around does look seriously gay - I've heard others say as much to me as well. So I'm not alone in thinking this.

I agree with you wholeheartedly with most of what you said. I somewhat agree with you that the bright colours look gay but I can't be arsed to explain to them the history behind it because quite frankly I don't care enough about bhangra to make the effort.

But I see your point about everything and would add that we're all being taken for a ride. I'm having to watch my rural culture being raped right in front of my eyes and both you and me are having to sit back and watch as 'producers', 'money makers' and 'boolywood' take our culture and reduce us to nothing more than alcohol drinking jokes and our people lap it up.

Much as it pains me to say it I would also agree with you on another point, and that is about the vulgar lyrics of this modern bhangra music we have today. I'm not a fan of bhangra at all. Never have been. I have my favourite musical forms (besides the obvious shabads, simran and gurbani) and among my second favourites are traditional Punjabi folk songs. To get that fix I have 2 choices: Either listen to Pakistani Punjabi folk music or keep in touch with what some British born Bhatra Sikhs sing. I've met alot of bhatras when I've gone east to places like East Ham and Ilford, Manchester and Southampton and I have to say that its wonderfull to see how they are keeping the traditional folk songs alive, especially by singing with traditional folk voices. But thats neither here nor there. The point is that if Punjabi virsa is our maa.....then we have to admit that our maa is being raped right in front of our eyes. Our glorious history...our glorious virsa...is being turned, by producers and promoters, into nothing more than an eye into a world of drinking sharab. Thats sad. But sadder still is that our people forget the truth and buy into it. Sadder even still is, as the OP alluded to, that it leads to the breakdown and vexation of Sikh families.

[Big_Tera]

Our community is drinking far far less than it did in the 1970's,80's and 90's. When I was a kid, for example, there were always blind drunk people at weddings but I don't think I've even seen a legless blind drunk person at a wedding in the last 10 years or so. There's been a complete culture shift. The drinking seems very moderated and when it comes to weddings I think the biggest positive factor in that has been the way that husbands sit with their wives and kids as a family unit. This creates and fosters a very moderated outlook.

But, even when we did drink alot (and I too used to drink) our alcohol consumption was always far lower than the white British. The problem however, was that we as a race, like the native americans and aborigines, lack that certain enzyme that helps break down alcohol. Thus it had a far bigger effect on us compared to the white britons. Bigger effect of course means negative effect and of course you're right in the fact that it caused alot of family heartaches.

lol we cant handle our drink. I think your talking about the chinese or japanese. people from my community can drink anyone under the table!

[JagsawSingh]

people from my community can drink anyone under the table!

Er....something to be proud of or something to be ashamed of ????

lol we cant handle our drink. I think your talking about the chinese or japanese

Nah. I ain't talking about that 'rice' gene thingy. I'm talking about something different. Nothing to do with orientals and rice. This is more to do with something we as a race have in common with australian aborigines for example. We are lacking certain enzymes in our body that northern European white people have. So, although we 'think' we can out-drink them the fact is we cannnot without it seriously affecting our mental and physical well-being.

[Big_Tera]

JagwahSingh, Your obviously not an original ethnic Punjabi then. And some Punjabi you are lol

Real Punjabis like me can digest any amount of alcohol. I guess its in our dna as original inhabitants to Punjab. We have evolved the ability to drink a large quantity. I guess you should just stick to your fruit juices and leave the nasha to the real Punjabis who can take it.

Bruaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!