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Guest Jacfsing2

Sikhs And Dating?

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Guest Jacfsing2

Can anyone tell me exactly why Sikhs can't date other Sikhs? (If you are from the same religion it shouldn't be a problem). Also if we keep our Rehats during the relationship, wouldn't it help find a suitable partner in the future. Keeping the basic rules of no Adultery and kissing and all that junk. Also I'd like either Rehat Maryada or Gurbani views on this, if it even mentions it.

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Can anyone tell me exactly why Sikhs can't date other Sikhs? (If you are from the same religion it shouldn't be a problem). Also if we keep our Rehats during the relationship, wouldn't it help find a suitable partner in the future. Keeping the basic rules of no Adultery and kissing and all that junk. Also I'd like either Rehat Maryada or Gurbani views on this, if it even mentions it.

Seems like somebody might have a crush ;)

In all seriousness I think dating is not a good idea.

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Can anyone tell me exactly why Sikhs can't date other Sikhs? (If you are from the same religion it shouldn't be a problem). Also if we keep our Rehats during the relationship, wouldn't it help find a suitable partner in the future. Keeping the basic rules of no Adultery and kissing and all that junk. Also I'd like either Rehat Maryada or Gurbani views on this, if it even mentions it.

Would you be okay with a Singh dating your sister for a while and it not leading to marriage? You'll find your answer in your response.

Admittedly, away from Sikhi and Punjabi cultural norms, there are aspects to dating that are positive (mostly to do with discovering how the opposite gender operates in those situations, thus not being swept away and being in thrall to the only person you've "been" with, because you're a bit wiser as to navigate the minefield that is relationships), but when it comes to our lot, it's mostly lust. Concerns regarding self-realisation, etc, don't figure much in our thinking.

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Would you be okay with a Singh dating your sister for a while and it not leading to marriage? You'll find your answer in your response.

Admittedly, away from Sikhi and Punjabi cultural norms, there are aspects to dating that are positive (mostly to do with discovering how the opposite gender operates in those situations, thus not being swept away and being in thrall to the only person you've "been" with, because you're a bit wiser as to navigate the minefield that is relationships), but when it comes to our lot, it's mostly lust. Concerns regarding self-realisation, etc, don't figure much in our thinking.

I don't know. I think people are getting more clued up. It's slow but happening.

This separation of genders within our community creates its own issues with gullibility and naivety.

Would you be okay with a Singh dating your sister for a while and it not leading to marriage?

With regard to the above specifically. I've now seen a fair few families that followed the so-called 'proper way' in line with our Panjabi culture, only to see their daughters end up in really messy relationships that ultimately didn't last.

Having experienced that - the families all of a sudden aren't that fussed with the younger ones dating (or lets say getting to know their prospective partner) prior to marriage. Wonder why that is?

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Guest Jacfsing2

Would you be okay with a Singh dating your sister for a while and it not leading to marriage? You'll find your answer in your response.

Admittedly, away from Sikhi and Punjabi cultural norms, there are aspects to dating that are positive (mostly to do with discovering how the opposite gender operates in those situations, thus not being swept away and being in thrall to the only person you've "been" with, because you're a bit wiser as to navigate the minefield that is relationships), but when it comes to our lot, it's mostly lust. Concerns regarding self-realisation, etc, don't figure much in our thinking.

I was mostly asking to find a marriage partner, because many "sikh" parents would actually try looking at caste and other junk, (a big dowry, an obedient in-laws, and finally an astrologer).

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With regard to the above specifically. I've now seen a fair few families that followed the so-called 'proper way' in line with our Panjabi culture, only to see their daughters end up in really messy relationships that ultimately didn't last.

Having experienced that - the families all of a sudden aren't that fussed with the younger ones dating (or lets say getting to know their prospective partner) prior to marriage. Wonder why that is?

I don't have a sister or any female relatives, BUT I am quite adept at empathising and placing myself in other people's shoes, and I'll tell you Singh, I'd go nuts if some Sikh guy (Gursikh or not) started going out with someone in my family to "test the waters" for a few years, and then dropped her in the end. Call me old fashioned, but that stuff still doesn't sit right with me.

I know what you're saying: there's tonnes of people that do things the "right" way that still end up getting jerked around, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, not at all. As oppressive and hypocritical as Punjabi culture and society can be, I consider it a huge source of sadness when someone's previously stellar reputation is besmirched through an error of judgement, naiveté, or even through no fault of their own.

I don't judge non-Sikhs who date - not one iota - cos if it works for them, more power to them. But as Sikhs, nah, we should function and hold ourselves to a higher standard.

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Seems like somebody might have a crush ;)

In all seriousness I think dating is not a good idea.

I'm not even mature enough to get married, (I'm mostly asking as a way to find someone marriage partner).

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I don't have a sister or any female relatives, BUT I am quite adept at empathising and placing myself in other people's shoes, and I'll tell you Singh, I'd go nuts if some Sikh guy (Gursikh or not) started going out with someone in my family to "test the waters" for a few years, and then dropped her in the end. Call me old fashioned, but that stuff still doesn't sit right with me.

Brother I hear you, but don't think this doesn't as often happen with girls who keep a guy strung along only to jump on what they see as...how do I put it....better prospects down the line.

I know what you're saying: there's tonnes of people that do things the "right" way that still end up getting jerked around, but I wouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, not at all. As oppressive and hypocritical as Punjabi culture and society can be, I consider it a huge source of sadness when someone's previously stellar reputation is besmirched through an error of judgement, naiveté, or even through no fault of their own.

This is where I think having men (not the same as just being male) in a family matters. As a dissuasive force against people who string someone along with no real honorable intention. This happens A LOT with rich good looking guys, who get accustomed to women running around after them.

Plus, does your last comment not bring up the topic of excessive judgmentalism about these things in our community anyway? Putting a failed relationship almost in the same bracket as getting used and abused by a Sikh hating sullah for example.

We can't not adapt to changes that are being imposed on us and seem unavoidable to me? Unless you see something I don't?

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Brother I hear you, but don't think this doesn't as often happen with girls who keep a guy strung along only to jump on what they see as...how do I put it....better prospects down the line.

Definitely. That goes without saying, I definitely wasn't white-knighting or anything like that. I was looking at the issue from a certain perspective, arguably one where I guess there's a part of me that still feels that our Sikh sisters should be "protected." I'm pretty certain very few of them see it that way in this day and age, which is fine with me.

This is where I think having men (not the same as just being male) in a family matters. As a dissuasive force against people who string someone along with no real honorable intention. This happens A LOT with rich good looking guys, who get accustomed to women running around after them.

Plus, does your last comment not bring up the topic of excessive judgmentalism about these things in our community anyway? Putting a failed relationship almost in the same bracket as getting used and abused by a Sikh hating sullah for example.

We can't not adapt to changes that are being imposed on us and seem unavoidable to me? Unless you see something I don't?

I personally wasn't coming from a judgemental angle, but, again, the old izzat perspective (no, not in the way Muslims have ruined that concept for the rest of us by chopping up their disobedient women and burying them under the patio in old suitcases); that kind of stiff-upper-lip, keep-your-house-in-order, play-by-the-rules, enjoy-life-and work-hard-but-don't-bring-your-family-into-disrepute mentality that our elders had, without recourse to fatal acts of violence to keep family members in-line.

I guess we have different tolerance levels and thresholds for defining the parameters of a respectful life. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're too far off from meeting in the middle. We're human after all and the sum of our life experiences, so there's bound to be some leeway or deviations at either end.

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Definitely. That goes without saying, I definitely wasn't white-knighting or anything like that. I was looking at the issue from a certain perspective, arguably one where I guess there's a part of me that still feels that our Sikh sisters should be "protected." I'm pretty certain very few of them see it that way in this day and age, which is fine with me.

Well, given the prevalence of sexual abuse that we've uncovered in the UK, I think it's starkly obvious that our Sikh sisters need protection - whether they themselves are clued up enough to recognise it or not (and let's talk straight - plenty of them are simply too dumb, naive or up their own ar5e to realise this - until it is too late sadly). With a lot of apneean (and their mouthy rebellious ways), we just have to be careful to try and strike that balance between protecting them and not appearing like an overly controlling ar5ehole, because you know what they can be like - they'll be using that ish against you next.... lol

"Oh, my horrible misogynist family didn't let me go out when I wanted, so I ran away....and then I met Abdul at a club...and then....and then....boo hoo hoo!"

I personally wasn't coming from a judgemental angle, but, again, the old izzat perspective (no, not in the way Muslims have ruined that concept for the rest of us by chopping up their disobedient women and burying them under the patio in old suitcases); that kind of stiff-upper-lip, keep-your-house-in-order, play-by-the-rules, enjoy-life-and work-hard-but-don't-bring-your-family-into-disrepute mentality that our elders had, without recourse to fatal acts of violence to keep family members in-line.

I guess we have different tolerance levels and thresholds for defining the parameters of a respectful life. Don't get me wrong, I don't think we're too far off from meeting in the middle. We're human after all and the sum of our life experiences, so there's bound to be some leeway or deviations at either end.

I believe these thresholds shift about a lot depending on the individuals concerned. Some people need more attention than others. Some apneean are just straight too stubborn and just don't want to listen almost naturally. It's like it is biologically driven. You have to adapt to what Waheguru sends you. What other choice we got?

Look at this girl for example:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/06/faiza-ahmed-cries-for-help-missed-every-authority-simon-hattenstone

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That was a harrowing read. I'm guessing we'll be seeing similar reports involving Sikh girls on a regular basis in the near future.

Thing is, the bravado and the rebellion is apparent on the part of Sikh girls when the prevailing mood is tame. But when the other side kicks up things a notch, or the next fella is a proper psycho / hard nut, all that, "You can't tell me what to do / I'm a strong, independent woman / Sikh males are misogynists" nonsense all turns to 5**t in an instant.

I'm of the mentality whereby "You've made your bed, now lie in it." If helping advances are spurned, what else can be done? Some people only learn through experience.

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I'm guessing we'll be seeing similar reports involving Sikh girls on a regular basis in the near future.

If that happens, it just means that we've f**ked up as a community.

The above has been happening to apneean for years already btw. We've just come to a point where we've made more people face up to it.

However it may seem to you - from where I'm standing, A LOT of progress has been made in the last few decades.

I'm positive.

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If that happens, it just means that we've f**ked up as a community.

The above has been happening to apneean for years already btw. We've just come to a point where we've made more people face up to it.

However it may seem to you - from where I'm standing, A LOT of progress has been made in the last few decades.

I'm positive.

It's the coming peeriya that trouble me, the ones for whom orthodox Sikhi and Sikhs may as well be another distant religion and people, despite both sides sharing the same racial and cultural background.

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Guest Jacfsing2

It's the coming peeriya that trouble me, the ones for whom orthodox Sikhi and Sikhs may as well be another distant religion and people, despite both sides sharing the same racial and cultural background.

We honestly don't even need to separate from Orthodox to non-orthodox, different Jathas are different enough to be their own religions.

We honestly don't even need to separate from Orthodox to non-orthodox, different Jathas are different enough to be their own religions.

If dating isn't the answer to finding a partner, what's the alternative?

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