Guru Gobind Singh And Rai Singh (from Chaupa Singh Rehatnama)

[dallysingh101]

I've been looking at this recently. It's a very interesting extract from the Chaupa Singh Singh rehatnama as translated and published by Hew McLeod.

If it is an accurate account, it suggests that Guru ji didn't expect all Sikhs to fight in war, deeming some unsuitable. I've not compared the translation to the original Panjabi text as given in McLeod's book yet. I'm posting both for people's inspection.

I love reading, but unfortunately I just can't do it for prolonged periods in electronic form (ebooks, kindle, ipads etc.), and can't afford to print out the whole ebook at the moment hence I haven't read the book fully yet.

Translation:

Once in S. 1759 (1702 A.C) [there occured the following incident]. The annual gathering to celebrate Baisakhi had been held and the naqib had been instructed to announce that everyone should go home. The naqib announced in a loud voice that the Supreme Master had instructed all to return to their homes. Hearing the announcement all who were assembled there duly dispersed. All departed except for a Khatri called Rai Singh. The naqib reported [to Guru Gobind Singh] that the gathering had dispersed but that one participant, Rai Singh, still remained.

"If you want to be a faithful Sikh [obey my command and] go to your home,' [the Guru] said to him.

"My Lord," he answered, "I have remained here because I have abandoned my home. How can I be a faithful Sikh in my home when I have no home?"

"Only at home can you be a faithful Sikh, not here," said [the Guru. "This is no place for you at present.] You are a literate person, one who knows Persian, whereas here our business has to be war. Because of the designs of [evil] people I must bring about a time of tumult (raula), for only thus can our ends be attained. [in such circumstances you will be a hindrance.] When you witness the turmoil you will think up all sorts of suggestions concerning the way this should be done and that should not be done. You will say, "The Master has made a mistake."

"[instead of flinging yourself in combat] you will sit and listen to what others say. You will think, you will observe and you will make calculations. But we shall be in the midst of tumult and when the panth is plunged into tumult it has to fight! If all is calm [my] Sikhs will stay at home and there fall prey to excessive affection for family and possessions. But now, in the coming tumult, there will be no such distractions." And so [the Guru] sent [Rai Singh] home.

Page 191 - internal book numbering

Full book available here: https://www.scribd.com/doc/251660050/The-Chaupa-Singh-Rahit-Nama-Translation-by-Hew-McLeod

[InderjitS]

mmmh interesting indeed. Sikhi is a garden which contains flowers of all shapes and sizes, so this translation explains I suppose why we had the Akalis, Nirmalas, Udasis and so forth all playing different roles. Question then arises were they all instructed to receive Amrit and become Guru Wale in the sense we are told now or were they still Guru Wale but had distinct responsibilities?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Not really true, if you ask me. When one takes Amrit they become a form of the Khalsa I.e. Guru's form. Also if you look very carefully at those who believe in Chaupa Singh's Rehatnama they use it as a support system for women to be given Kirpan-Di-Amrit. Also didn't Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji leave Chamkaur when the Punj Pyare told him. (If you want a legit Rehatnama read Bhai Daya Singh's Rehatnama, he was a Punj Pyare).

[MisterrSingh]

Not really true, if you ask me. When one takes Amrit they become a form of the Khalsa I.e. Guru's form. Also if you look very carefully at those who believe in Chaupa Singh's Rehatnama they use it as a support system for women to be given Kirpan-Di-Amrit. Also didn't Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji leave Chamkaur when the Punj Pyare told him. (If you want a legit Rehatnama read Bhai Daya Singh's Rehatnama, he was a Punj Pyare).

Would Guru Ji have expected the poets and the writers in his darbar (creative types who - shall we say - had delicate sensibilities not conducive to the temperament required of a warrior) to fight in the battles being waged at the time? Would they've forced a kirpan or a spear into the hand of a fey, flowery type who preferred wielding a pen than a sword?

[Guest Jacfsing2]

Would Guru Ji have expected the poets and the writers in his darbar (creative types who - shall we say - had delicate sensibilities not conducive to the temperament required of a warrior) to fight in the battles being waged at the time? Would they've forced a kirpan or a spear into the hand of a fey, flowery type who preferred wielding a pen than a sword?

One of the kakkars is Kirpan, I don't think Guru Sahib would recommend kesh-cutting on the battlefield either, even though you can just grab someone's dhari to stop them from fighting, some disgusting haumai-filled monas use this tactic when fighting against Singhs from political Gurdwara control: you can literally see those folk in videos also grabbing the Pags of Singhs and Kaurs who wear them.

[MisterrSingh]

One of the kakkars is Kirpan, I don't think Guru Sahib would recommend kesh-cutting on the battlefield either, even though you can just grab someone's dhari to stop them from fighting, some disgusting haumai-filled monas use this tactic when fighting against Singhs from political Gurdwara control: you can literally see those folk in videos also grabbing the Pags of Singhs and Kaurs who wear them.

What has that got to do with anything being discussed?

We're talking about pushing non-fighters into a fighting unit of Singhs whose sole aim was defeat the enemy and win battles. If some limp-wristed kavi (no offence to him) lined up alongside me in a battle situation, and it was presumed he had my back in a situation where I required support in a fight, I'd be pretty annoyed at the fact that I was guaranteed to die if my survival depended on the shivering wreck next to me. Dying the glorious death of a martyr is all well and good, but if the aim of war is to win battles and inflict damage on the enemy, then you have to be alive to push the enemy towards defeat. If everyone is getting martyred left, right, and centre, then that's great for their souls, but not so great for the act of winning a war.

And before anyone posts the "Chiriyaa toh Baaj" bachan, which I believe in wholeheartedly, there's also the practical requirement of winning battles and defeating the enemy, which is a feat made possible only through the efforts of battle-hardened fighters and expert strategic planning; that's something we forget when we get all philosophical and metaphysical about the history of our Guru Sahibs. Without preparation, training, education, and skill, you CANNOT win a physical encounter. With the hand of God over your head, impossible feats are absolutely possible, but if that were the only requirement to excel in a particular field (in this case, war) there would've been no need to mold Sikhs into a martial race. A succession of sehaj paaths for a few hundred years would've done the job.

[dallysingh101]

I've heard that someone else was prevented from arming themselves and fighting by Guru ji too, I think it might have been Bhai Nand Lal Goya?

If this episode is true, then I don't think it is suggesting that all educated writing types were prevented from fighting. Dasmesh pita ji is no clown, if someone was not suitable for that type of rough stuff then I would imagine he would tactfully and firmly dissuade them from it. Like here.

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

[MisterrSingh]

I've heard that someone else was prevented from arming themselves and fighting by Guru ji too, I think it might have been Bhai Nand Lal Goya?

If this episode is true, then I don't think it is suggesting that all educated writing types were prevented from fighting. Dasmesh pita ji is no clown, if someone was not suitable for that type of rough stuff then I would imagine he would tactfully and firmly dissuade them from it. Like here.

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

I think Guru Ji would've judged the situation on a case-by-case basis. Some individuals have hidden depths that need to be uncovered by someone who can recognise those latent abilities in an individual. There well might've been a few of the non-warriors who had fighting spirit, but the assumption that all of them were given a weapon and told to go fight cannot be accurate.

Guru Ji was a lot more pragmatic, far-sighted, and shrewd than his modern day followers give him credit for. These lot won't be at peace until they've completed pendu-fied our Guru Sahibs into crude "chakdo Singho" caricatures. Drives me up the wall.

[MisterrSingh]

Maybe this particular guy was so plainly psychologically and/or physically unsuitable for the coming raula that Guru ji did the obviously right thing?

You know this, but as a commander of men, i.e. soldiers, any individual responsible for a fighting unit MUST not have any liabilities amongst his men that would hamper any desire of inflicting defeat on the opposition. Why would Guru Ji willingly induct men into his army who were clearly unsuitable for the act of fighting? They weren't running a charity or a social club to make Sikhs feel good about themselves, lol. Their primary aim was to inflict damage on the enemy and win battles.

[dallysingh101]

You know this, but as a commander of men, i.e. soldiers, any individual responsible for a fighting unit MUST not have any liabilities amongst his men that would hamper any desire of inflicting defeat on the opposition. Why would Guru Ji willingly induct men into his army who were clearly unsuitable for the act of fighting? They weren't running a charity or a social club to make Sikhs feel good about themselves, lol. Their primary aim was to inflict damage on the enemy and win battles.

Remember in Bachitar Natak Guru ji himself says he barred people who didn't fight in some of the earlier battles from residing in Anandpur afterwards.