Help marriage issue

[Guest Gurvir101]

Waheguru ji ka khalsa, waheguru ji ki fateh

Sangat please help me with this problem i am having. I am from the UK, and my family is sikh. Although i do not believe in caste because i follow sikhi, my family is chamar. 

I met a girl while studying at university and we became friends, however this accidentally blossomed into love without meaning for it to.

She is also sikh, but her family is Jatt, and they are very casteist. Although she herself does not believe in caste because she also tries to follow sikhi, her family believe in it strongly.

Now we all know here that there is no jaat paat in Sikhi, is there a way to convince her family? I have met them before just as her friend and they assumed i am Jatt because they think I look like one.

My and my family do not fall into any stereotypes they may have about lower castes for example: we are all fair skinned, we follow pure sikhi, we are relatively well off etc. I am very well educated, i have a good job and i get told that i am a very good natured and caring person.

Another issue i have is her parents have said that she can marry a Jatt or a Tarkhan but not a Chamar. Surely marrying out of caste to any different caste should be treated the same.

Please help with how to resolve this, and give me any advice you can. Thank you

[simran345 2,557]

This is a tricky one, as the older generation still have the caste rules and apply them to marriage. 

You are right that there is no jaat paat in Sikhi. You seem to be okay from your family's side that they support your view of not supporting caste. However your female friend is not, as her family have already given her a set of rules to abide by. It seems like they've said she can choose her own marriage partner, but as long as he is of so and so castes. This is quite silly, as then they are not following Sikhi, but applying their own rules. 

From what you have described about yourself and your family, sounds like they will not have to worry about their daughter being married off to somebody that is only marrying her for materialistic reasons. So that's one positive point. The next point is how much faith they have in their daughter that she hasn't chosen a wrong guy. It all depends on the relationship she has with her parents that they will be willing to give their blessings. Although she has does everything as correctly as she can, chosen somebody that believes in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji (I'm assuming you do follow them and go to a Gurdwara which has Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji in it?) and not let caste be an issue, the problem lies in their set of rules that they laid out to her. 

The thing is nobody can tell you what the best way to convince them is in case it backfires and makes them angry. Are there any elders that know both sides of the family, that could talk to them? Sorry, that's the only thing I can think of that will help develop trust in you. Trust is what needs to be present within both families to accept each other and that both follow Sikhi. 

Some videos to think about:

 

 

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

I know this sounds impractical, but either you elope with her and get married anyway without her parents approval; or you completely cut this relationship off, and consider it a bad effort on everyone's part. If I would have any problem with Chamars, it's that I'd assume they are Ravidassia, but since your Sikh I'd assume your ok, (honestly you don't sound like it, since no Sikh calls themselves Chamar and that group calls themselves among Sikh populations as Ramdassia, followers of Dhan Dhan Sri Guru Ram Das Ji). So either you elope secretly and tell everyone about the wedding later or you just let it go. They won't accept you as a Rishta unless you forced them to accept you so it's your choice, people won't change magically like movies and tv shows where one prachar and somehow you changed their life so much that the only one who could preach better than yourself was Guru Sahib himself, sorry but life doesn't work that way. I'm just telling you straight-up, this will not be any easy decision for either of you.

[Guest Gurvir101]

Thank you for your replies. I'd just like to reiterate that I am sikh, we go to a gurdwara with the sri Guru Granth Sahib, We follow pure Sikhi as written is gurbani. I don't believe in caste, and people do not usually ask me hence why I said chamar as im not very knowledgeable on the matter.

Eloping would not be an option as I believe its disrespectful to both sides of parents. Unfortunately there is no one that we know of that knows both families. I considered taking to the panj piyare of the gurdwara but decided against it as I have never heard of them getting involved with these matters.

I have decided to place this into Mahraj's hands, if this is meant to be he will listen to my ardaas and let it happen. If it is in my kismet to marry her, then only mahraj can convince them.

I have met her parents a few times as one of her friends and I have been told that her mother actually suggested me for marriage not realising that I am of a different caste. I think next time if her mother says the same ill tell her to say I am of a different caste and see what her response is.

[Guest Jacfsing2]

14 hours ago, Guest Gurvir101 said:

Thank you for your replies. I'd just like to reiterate that I am sikh, we go to a gurdwara with the sri Guru Granth Sahib, We follow pure Sikhi as written is gurbani. I don't believe in caste, and people do not usually ask me hence why I said chamar as im not very knowledgeable on the matter.

Eloping would not be an option as I believe its disrespectful to both sides of parents. Unfortunately there is no one that we know of that knows both families. I considered taking to the panj piyare of the gurdwara but decided against it as I have never heard of them getting involved with these matters.

I have decided to place this into Mahraj's hands, if this is meant to be he will listen to my ardaas and let it happen. If it is in my kismet to marry her, then only mahraj can convince them.

I have met her parents a few times as one of her friends and I have been told that her mother actually suggested me for marriage not realising that I am of a different caste. I think next time if her mother says the same ill tell her to say I am of a different caste and see what her response is.

If you aren't willing to elope; just let it go: this is not some Bollywood movie where if you partner really shows affection towards you that somehow the parents change in the end: this is reality, you either take big steps and move forward; or you give-up and pretend like all this never happened. Also how are you going to lie about your caste since you already told them you were Chamar. Read-up on some other topics relating to inter-caste stories like yours and you'll realize it's the high-way or the no-way.

[Guest daasi]

How is it we as Sikhs, acknowledging caste at all?

THAT IS NOT SIKHI

[kalyugi 20]

Hope it works out for you guys...but I see major family problems in future for you guys.

 

[Guest Please marry her bro]

Gurvir Singh bro - Sikhi repudiates and condemns the caste system.

You do not believe in it. Your future wife does not believe in it.

Respect to you and her both that you are trying to win the blessing of her parents. That ought to be forthcoming in time. Don't give up. Since you don't believe in the Hindu+Muslim caste system there is no need to pidgeonhole yourself by stating that you belong to this biraderi or the other.

Just state that you believe in GurSikh principles - kul nash - rejection of castes.

No so-called Sikh on this planet should have the himmat to reject a good honest son-in-law or daughter-in-law on the basis of their family heritage.

All Sikhs bow down to Shabad Guru and the sacred Gurbani of Dhan Dhan Baba Ravidas Ji Maharaj - the highest of the high - so it is utterly unthinkable for a good human being to be rejected by honest Sikhs.

Should her parents not be willing - let's be clear that they are thus not Sikh by heart and you and your future wife should marry and live independently as you are better off without the negativity of people who fail to see the whole human race as one (as Sikhi and Guru Sahib state).

Remember Shaheed Bhai Sangat Singh Ji led the entire Sikh Khalsa Fauj. The Muslims taunted the Sikhs that our Qaum was led into battle by a Chamar. And the same thing happened in 1947. The Muslim Jatts, Rajputs, Syeds, Khatri Sheikhs and Brahmin Butts all despised Sikhs for being in their eyes being over represented by "chooreh chamar" but it was the fact that Sikhs of all backgrounds fought unitedly that saved Amritsar, Jalandhar, Ludhiana from being annexed by Pakistan (as the Muslims achieved in part of Kashmir). Ironic how Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji (as a so-called choorah in Muslim+Hindu perceptions) showed unmatchable bravery that none of the high caste Muslims like Aurangzeb could ever match.

Keep strong bro and please both of you get married. Don't let falsehoods and anti-Sikh beliefs destroy a sincere connection that the two of you have. Don't let any fears derail you from the path which you know is the Truth.

Wish you all the very best

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest DirectAnswer]

Brother,  here is my suggestion

first if both of u r amritdharis, then u shud not give anyone preference but only Guru Gobind Singh jee, right

If u r amritdhari, means u have already given ur head to guru ji, right

means u will listen to only guru ji

and guru jis khalsa is casteless 

so anyone who don't follow gurujis order is not a "sikh" and u must not try to request them

 

my meaning is if ur parents are ready then they shud be mist welcomed 

if they go for jatt and chamars this strictly means ur parents are not "sikhs" and they are strictly "rejecting Guru jis hukam"

so better to say Goodbye to such parents

only Guruji is true, mom dad and parents etc are just for few years.

thanks

[gurvir101 4]

8 hours ago, Jacfsing2 said:

If you aren't willing to elope; just let it go: this is not some Bollywood movie where if you partner really shows affection towards you that somehow the parents change in the end: this is reality, you either take big steps and move forward; or you give-up and pretend like all this never happened. Also how are you going to lie about your caste since you already told them you were Chamar. Read-up on some other topics relating to inter-caste stories like yours and you'll realize it's the high-way or the no-way.

@Jacfsing2 forgive me I wasn't clear, I did not mean lie about my caste. I meant I would tell her parents that I am a different caste to them. Only she knows my caste, her parents do not know.

I will read up on some other topics in hope they will help. 

@simran345 thank you for linking the basics of sikhi videos, they are a good resource, I use them quite often. I enjoy listening to the naam simran done for their introduction.

It is fustrating because it goes directly against Guru jis teachings. I think the world would be better if more of us took amrit and actually read and followed gurbani.

[Guest Guest]

Here is another video relating to this topic.

Wish you the best, brother.

[gurvir101 4]

Thank you brothers and sisters for your help. I appreciate having such a wise and caring sangat to give me support in this situation. 

I am currently working up the courage to talk to my parents about the situation. My parents do not believe in the caste system but they will not want the girl to abandon her family and break a household. 

I believe we will visit her family and see if any talking can convince them. Maybe if she strongly enforces that she wants to marry me her family will come round.

I will keep you updated, and i'll include you all in my prayers thanking you for your help.

 

[Guest Jacfsing2]

1 hour ago, gurvir101 said:

Thank you brothers and sisters for your help. I appreciate having such a wise and caring sangat to give me support in this situation. 

I am currently working up the courage to talk to my parents about the situation. My parents do not believe in the caste system but they will not want the girl to abandon her family and break a household. 

I believe we will visit her family and see if any talking can convince them. Maybe if she strongly enforces that she wants to marry me her family will come round.

I will keep you updated, and i'll include you all in my prayers thanking you for your help.

You could mess with them and tell them you're the highest caste of Brahmin, (it doesn't really mean anything these days), and after you are married you could admit to being Chamar.

[Guest Please marry her bro]

Jacfsing2 bro, our brother Gurvir Singh is a GurSikh in soch+spirit.

Hence him and his cool parents should state nothing other.

Bhai Jiwan Singh Ji already proved to our Qaum along with countless other great Shaheeds that actions make us high or low rather than allegiance to false Hindu+Muslim bidaderi's.

Nawaz Sharif the Prime Minister of Pakistan is from the Brahmin caste as are most Kashmiri Muslim terrorists so I hardly think it will help Gurvir Singh to say that.

As for Jatts 80% of them are Muslim+Hindu just like Liaquat Ali Khan the first Prime Minister of Pakistan and Sajjan Kumar the famous killer of Sikhs in 1984.

 

[gurvir101 4]

On 01/04/2017 at 1:19 AM, Jacfsing2 said:

You could mess with them and tell them you're the highest caste of Brahmin, (it doesn't really mean anything these days), and after you are married you could admit to being Chamar.

I wouldn't want to lie to them, it does not set a good tone for the relationship! But that is a funny thought.

There are too many conflicted sikhs in the world, they are almost more punjabi than sikh. Castes is a punjabi thing not a sikh thing and people need to recognise the difference and affiliate themselves with sikhi rather than punjabi traditions.

In my opinion, within the next 2/3 generations i see the caste system dissolving as the youth become more educated and see the hypocrisy of being sikh and believing in castes. I see it a lot with my generation so hopefully it continues.