Did the Gurus have past lives?

[Akalifauj]

14 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

No place in sri dasam granth has it been written that guru sahib’s name was dusht daman, but we still believe that guru sahibs name was dusht daman in satyug.

Are you denying Bachittar Natak is the autobiography of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji?

[MrDoaba]

1 hour ago, Singh123456777 said:

Imma keep on bothering you till you answer my question. Why do we do chaur over guru sahib??? Come on man answer the damn question

Perhaps the bitter smoke from his diva went into his eyes and because of this, he has not been able to see your posts.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, MrDoaba said:

Perhaps the bitter smoke from his diva went into his eyes and because of this, he has not been able to see your posts.

Looool

[MrDoaba]

6 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

The nihangs doing aarti with candles happens only during aarti.  The two cannot be compared.

It's not just Nihangs, doing Aarti with Divas was a widespread practise even amongst regular folk.

Why can the two not be compared?

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Chair sahib is done since the time of Parkash in the morning till Guru Granth Sahib ji goes to sachkhand.  Some Gurdwaras don't because they don't have the sevadhars. The nihangs doing aarti with candles happens only during aarti.  The two cannot be compared.  They only can be compared if a person brings up the shabad in sohila sahib that speaks of both to say one cannot be done but the other can.  Also chaur sahib has been done since Sri Guru Nanak Dev ji.  This is well known and so is when the first Parkash of Aad Granth Sahib ji took place.  Can you provide the same information for aarti being done with candles for anyone of the 10 Gurus or Aad Granth Sahib ji?

But according to guru nanak dev ji the wind is the chaur sahib.

ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥ 
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

 

So if the wind is the chaur sahib then why do we still do it? 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Are you denying Bachittar Natak is the autobiography of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji?

Did anywhere i write i was denying bachittar natak?

I said that the name dusht daman wasnt written in dasam granth but was written 150 years later by kavi santhok singh ji, it wasnt found in dasam granth sahib. So is the sakhi of dusht daman ji helping chandi/durga etc.. it was written later on as well

[MrDoaba]

"A number of misguided modern-Sikhs say that this practice is Hindu or ritualistic. If we are to remove everything from the Khalsa Panth that has the slightest relation to the Hindu Dharam we would have nothing left. For example the Indian Princes used to keep Chaur, incense, war-drums, conch, flags, etc. All of these items were connected with their Royalty. In the same way the Aarti – Aarta is Bhakti, as we are affirming and respecting the True King, Sache Patshah, Dhan Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj! It is also our duty to recite this as it is our liturgy, as we have seen before. We do it to daily honour our Guru. This is a great thing to do. Therefore, in the Aarti we take Adi Guru Granth Sahib to be the living Guru, and we are paying our respects by standing and offering incense, ghee-lanterns, and singing with devotion more than anything else (ਲੇਹੁ ਆਰਤੀ ਹੋ ਪੁਰਖ ਨਿਰੰਜਨ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪੂਜਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥ Worship and adoration of the Pure, Primal Lord comes by worshipping the True Guru, O Siblings of Destiny.)

We consider the Guru to be a manifestation of Vahiguru and hence why we do Puja of Maharaj. Vahu Vahu Bani Nirankar Hai! This is not idol worship, after all we put the Guru to bed, in Sukhasan, do Bhog to offer food, give Maharaj Rumalle, and do the Chaur Sahib and Ardas infront of Guru Maharaj. This is the respect of the Sargun, and the singing the Shabad is worship of the Nirgun Parmatma.

Giani Ditt Singh was a prominent member of the Singh Sabha reform; he was against ritualism and managed to stop the traditional ritual of Aarti (lit. remover of darkness), of using lamps and incense to make a devoted supplication before Akal Purakh in Sikh temples. It is no surprise that before becoming a Sikh he was a Gulabdasi, a sect that is known to be fiercely against any form of ritualism. He wrote the Gurmat Aarti Prabodh on the subject. He called this practice false and stated he wanted to stop it. He states that that the Aarti would take place with lanterns at Sri Harmandir Sahib (verse 14), but he criticises it heavily. He mentions those imposters who wear blue, i.e. Nihang Singhs, and the Nirmale as sinners for doing this practice (verse 4). Stating, ‘they stand infront of the Guru with fire, Oh Saints’ (verse 6). He was of the belief there should be no Jot or Dhoop either, lantern or incense (verse 14). Giani Ditt Singh was of the belief that this practice started after the Guru’s reign at Harimandir Sahib (verse 17). If standing with a lantern infront of the Guru is Hinduism, then why do we stand behind the Guru with a metal object full of hair (Chaur Sahib)? This question seems disrespectful and that is how Giani Ditt Singh’s work was seen by traditional Sikhs, as being nastik, or cynical towards to the devotional practices of Dharam. He even notes this in his work. He then gives lengthy quotations of scripture in his poetry that is a conversation between ‘Khalsa’ and ‘Gobha Singh’. However, he does not quote Sri Dasam Granth Sahib, in which Guru Gobind Singh states:

 ਧੂਪ ਜਗਾਇ ਕੈ ਸੰਖ ਬਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਸੀਸ ਨਿਵਾਇ ਕੈ ਬੈਨ ਸੁਨਾਇਓ ॥

They burn the incence and blow the conch and supplicate bowing their heads.

 

 

This verse obviously contradicts his argument, and does he make mention of any others ritual of Adi Guru Granth Sahib, other than incense. Giani Ditt Singh was successful and the beautiful lanterns were stopped from being presented as a humble supplication before Adi Guru Granth Sahib at Sri Darbar Sahib. The Singh Sabha reformers banned this in Punjab, labelling it ‘Hindu.’ Nonetheless it was still found amongst the Buddha Dal, Nirmala, Nanaksar, and Namdhari Sikhs. Jathedar Baba Joginder Singh gave a response to this reformist Sikhism in Sri Hazur Marayada Prabodh. Where he states that in the evening there is the recitation of the Aarti , that contains substantial portions of Sri Dasam Granth Sahib and Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib. This is performed standing up, with lamps (Diva), and was a ritual associated with honouring the ancient Kings of India, Saints, and elders. He was one of the previous Jathedars of Hazur Sahib, and wrote the aforementioned book in defence of this practice as well as other, like the enthronement of the DG, in this work Sri Hazur Marayada Prabodh.

A question is raised by a Sikh visting Takht Hazur Sahib:

“Guru Nanak Dev states ‘The universe is the platter, and the sun and moon are the lamps, and the stars are the pearls’, so why must we need to use a platter and lanterns when God has already made them in the Universe?”

However, if that is the case, then Sikhs should stop using the Chaur Sahib because in the second verse the Guru states:

ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥

The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

 

Then, why the symbols of royalty like the Whisk (Chaur Sahib)? When the wind is the Lord’s fan? Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib is the living Guru of the Sikhs and in the ancient times all kings in India were attended by being fanned by a Royal Whisk, which clearly showed his status. In the same way the lanterns are to show that the ten Gurus are the light in Adi Sri Guru Granth Sahib on this world, and is done out of humility, love and respect. Just like the Chaur Sahib."

 

-Dr. Kamalroop Singh

 

[Akalifauj]

3 hours ago, Singh123456777 said:

But according to guru nanak dev ji the wind is the chaur sahib.

ਧੂਪੁ ਮਲਆਨਲੋ ਪਵਣੁ ਚਵਰੋ ਕਰੇ ਸਗਲ ਬਨਰਾਇ ਫੂਲੰਤ ਜੋਤੀ ॥੧॥ 
The fragrance of sandalwood in the air is the temple incense, and the wind is the fan. All the plants of the world are the altar flowers in offering to You, O Luminous Lord. ||1||

 

So if the wind is the chaur sahib then why do we still do it? 

Why did you avoid my question at the end?  If you didn't see it, here it is again.

Can you provide the same information for aarti being done with candles for anyone of the 10 Gurus or Adi Granth Sahib ji?

I even made it bold so you might not miss it this time.

[chatanga]

13 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

ਧੂਪ ਜਗਾਇ ਕੈ ਸੰਖ ਬਜਾਇ ਕੈ ਸੀਸ ਨਿਵਾਇ ਕੈ ਬੈਨ ਸੁਨਾਇਓ ॥

Read what context this is written in:

 

https://www.searchgurbani.com/dasam-granth/shabad/8269/line/1

 

IMO Kamalroop has not presented it in its correct context in his article.

 

13 hours ago, MrDoaba said:

Giani Ditt Singh ... states that that the Aarti would take place with lanterns at Sri Harmandir Sahib (verse 14), but he criticises it heavily. He mentions those imposters who wear blue, i.e. Nihang Singhs, and the Nirmale as sinners for doing this practice (verse 4).

 

One of the things that has always irked me greatly is that even with Sri Akal Bunga under the control of Nihangs during this era the low-castes were barred from entering the parikrama to Darbar Sahib and had to do namaskar from outside. Giani Ditt Singh was a Chamar (even though I did at one time beleive very strongly that he was a julaha) and people like him were heavily discriminated against even under the eye of the protectors of faith - the Dal Panth. This could explain why Giani Ji criticized some of their practices.

[Guest]

12 hours ago, Akalifauj said:

Why did you avoid my question at the end?  If you didn't see it, here it is again.

Can you provide the same information for aarti being done with candles for anyone of the 10 Gurus or Adi Granth Sahib ji?

I even made it bold so you might not miss it this time.

No where it is written that is was done and no where it is written that it wasnt done.

There are other sources that mention divas and what not in sikhi. If you would like to see that proof then i would be glad to show you.