Gurdwara Designs

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

So, I've just been reading a very interesting thread on the main page: Sikh - Health and Diet. No need for me to go over old ground as I have on previous occasions mentioned McCarrison's famous study in the 1920s, in which he compared the diets of Sikhs, Pathans and white Englishmen. The conclusion was that the Sikhs have the best diet of all and if  they (we) would include more fruits into the diet it would be a super diet. Of course the basis of the study was the diet of the rural Sikh farmer, who would use what he / she ate to get up at dawn and work, work and work. For him....it is the (one of) the best diets in the world. For the man sitting on his backside at a computer desk or in his store...the diet is a deadly killer. Anyway, cut a long story short, with the unbearably hot weather we're currently having in the UK it got me thinking about the design of Punjab buildings.....how the old generations were so much more intellectual than us in that they used to put so much more thought into design and architecture whereas our current generation is now so unintellectual we're barely capable of anything other than being able to sit at a computer and criticise the older generation...ironically for being "unintellectual". Anyway, you don't get a chance to do it much in Doaba villages these days because there are very few old houses left there but when we pass through Majha, Malwa or even through Haryana I like nothing more than immersing myself in the design and layout of the old houses in the pends. There's still a few standing in our doaba pend too and it's so amazing to tap into the vast knowledge of the previous generations and absorb what they knew by way of absorbing their architecture. Today's unintellectual generation think the way of showing intellect design is by incorporating an air conditioner or two into a new build house. The old timers however, understood nature. they understood how a tree or two in the courtyard acts like a natural air conditioner for the whole house by evaporating moisture from their leaves in the extreme heat. They ensured the outer walls of the old houses in the pends were really REALLY thick and they'd place mud and straw into the cavities within those walls which acted as an amazing insulator from both extreme heat and extreme cold. They ensured there were never any windows on the outside wall - only on the interior courtyard wall, thus even 50 degrees celcius had no effect on them. They designed the 'road' outside their house to be extremely narrow gallis so that everyone would have maximum shade in the extreme heat. Those, my friends, were the days when 'thought' went into art, architecture and design. These, my friends, are the days when we can reach page 5 of a thread on the very subject and only 3 people can express a 'thought' on the subject. We have gone from the golden age of the true intellectuals to the current age of the pseudo-intellectuals that possess more time than sense. We have gone from previous generations that built buildings based on love and understanding of the nature in which those buildings stood to a current generation that can only mimic what came before and stick an A/C in it. Design, art and architecture is about 'thought'. As I've stated half a dozen times on this thread there is no right or wrong answer....there is no right or wrong Sikh architecture. But you have to begin thinking about it.

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

Found some really interesting photos (circa 1960's) from a retired Sikh architect. A few of the pics jumped out at me but the one that really got me thinking was of Gurdwara siri Ber Sahib in Kaputhala - got me thinking about how we, as Sikhs, utilise space. For those of you unfamiliar with this particular Gurdwara SikhiWiki describes as such:

Guru Nanak Dev used to take bath in Bein river and then Meditate. Guru Sahib stayed here for 14 years 9 months and 13 days. While Bathing here one day in Bein River Guru Sahib disappeared and was missing and returned after three days at the place where Gurudwara Sant Ghat Sahib is situated. Upon returning enlightned Guru began his life long mission of preaching Sikhism. Guru Nanak Dev ji planted a Ber Tree on this spot which has grown into a large tree.

When you look at how the Gurdwara was in the 1960's (1st picture below) you really do get a sense of history. That 'space' between the back of the Gurdwara and the river itself was kept just as nature intended and exactly the was it was when Guru ji walked down to the river. To me, a truly beautiful and meaningful use of 'space'. When you contrast that with how it is now (picture 2 below) you really do get the feeling that our Sikh 'designers' or 'architects' if you will, know nothing about utilising space other than the obligatory 'cover it with marble'.   I think it's really sad because the previous generation got to literally walk in the footsteps of Guru ji and I can just imagine the intense spiritual feeling that must have awakened inside. We, sadly, have to settle for large open spaces of marble. It's a generational thing and nobody can deny that I have tried very hard in this thread to get you all at least begin the process of 'thinking' about this but the previous generation were of the opinion that marble is rich and mud and the elements is poor. Thus they used marble extensively to demonstrate our majesty with little or no thought about the beauty of nature and space. But, things move people in different way and pictures say different things to different people. Tell me what you think:

[Guest Haridas]

Its Rajput architecture

[Guest guest]

one thing i don't agree with in modern Gurdwaras, which i think has been copied from Anglican churches- is the stage for kirtanyas and also the 'podium' they have (the desk with microphone for one person to stand behind).

in old pictures only SGGS is elevated on Gurgaddi, and the kirtanyas sat infron of Guruji on the floor, facing Guruji, when they sang.

now they on the side, on a platform, facing sangat.  this is a copy of choirs in churches.

also the pulpit- which is what a priest stands behind to give a sermon.  that should not be there.  People in Gurughar just use it to ask for money and give political rants or boring lectures at weddings.  It shouldn't be there.  

[Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh]

20 hours ago, Guest guest said:

one thing i don't agree with in modern Gurdwaras, which i think has been copied from Anglican churches- is the stage for kirtanyas and also the 'podium' they have (the desk with microphone for one person to stand behind).

in old pictures only SGGS is elevated on Gurgaddi, and the kirtanyas sat infron of Guruji on the floor, facing Guruji, when they sang.

now they on the side, on a platform, facing sangat.  this is a copy of choirs in churches.

also the pulpit- which is what a priest stands behind to give a sermon.  that should not be there.  People in Gurughar just use it to ask for money and give political rants or boring lectures at weddings.  It shouldn't be there.  

Those are very interesting points and observations. I can't deny that what you say is true (in the case of overseas Gurdwaras) but from the point of view of historical context I think it's important to appreciate that a Gurdwara in, say England, Canada or Australia, is fundamentally very different to a Gurdwara as an institution back in Punjab. Overseas, the building itself has always been more than just a Gurdwara. It has always been a 'building' which provided vital collective social and mental well-being to the community. For many, the only chance they get in their working week to meet other Sikhs, feel part of a community and get to hear what's going on. Thus I really don't have anything against the 'podium' with microphone as such although I do lament the fact that generally the man behind the microphone telling us 'what's going on and will be going on in coming weeks'  is usually the most dull, boring and sleep-inducing orator one could ever hope to hear.

[puzzled]

I think they sit on a podium so everyone can see them, otherwise on busy days only sangat sitting near the front would be able to see them 

[Guest Haridas]

nobody needs to see them.  only to hear them.  same with kathaks.  

[Guest Haridas]

2 hours ago, Guest jigsaw_puzzled_singh said:

It has always been a 'building' which provided vital collective social and mental well-being to the community. For many, the only chance they get in their working week to meet other Sikhs, feel part of a community and get to hear what's going on.

i disagree that is has 'always been' that.  this is a modern attitude.  and a lamentable one in imo.  Gurdwaras usually have separate societies/halls for that community stuff.

and to "hear what's going on"?  what do you mean? if its religious message ("next week is Guru Janam Divas" or "we need more sevaks in the kitchen") that can be made quickly by someone just standing up for 2 mins.  by putting a podium there you are inviting 'lectures'. 

 

[Guest Haridas]

kathaks and kirtanis should sit on the floor.  no one needs to see them.

putting them on platforms ecourages egotism, no?

also, names of kathaks and kirtanis shouldn't be advertised:  "bhai sahib (insert place) wala is at our smagam"!  this is isnt a music concert.  

kathaks and kirtanis should remain anonymous.

[puzzled]

some photos of Sikhs taken by life magazine in 1947, includes photos of Sikhs protesting for water 

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/6bc75e2efed3348e.html