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puzzled

Can sikhi be criticised?

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Can people criticise Sikhi?

Recently some woman in Austria was fined and jailed for calling the muslim prophet a pedo. Now obviously different people will have different opinions on this, some will agree some won't. In European countries this is a very touchy subject and we now live in a politically correct culture where most people hesitate to voice their opinions in case they offend someone. With people being jailed for criticising religion, political correctness it makes you wonder if freedom of speech really exists.

But what about sikhi, let's say khalistan was created, would the Hindus, Christians, dalits and whatever be allowed to criticise Sikhi? Would they be allowed to question the divinity of the gurus, guru granth sahib ji, miracles, sikh ithias, question and criticise the lives of the gurus and other sikh figures.  Would they be allowed to give their own interpretation of guru granth sahib ji?

If not, but one of them decides to, how would we deal with it? 

In most middle eastern countries you have you head chopped off for questioning Islam, what would happen in a sikh country? 

Not a trick question, just interested in knowing what others think of this ...

Edited by puzzled

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We should show compassion to others, even if we don’t believe in their religions. Freedom of speech should be allowed as long as it’s speech and not action. I’d be okay with others not following Sikhi so long as they don’t start attacking Sikhs or Gurdwaras. I’d have no problems with peaceful protests. But Khalistan should have a pro-Sikhi stance rather than be secular. 

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10 hours ago, puzzled said:

Can people criticise Sikhi?

Recently some woman in Austria was fined and jailed for calling the muslim prophet a pedo. Now obviously different people will have different opinions on this, some will agree some won't. In European countries this is a very touchy subject and we now live in a politically correct culture where most people hesitate to voice their opinions in case they offend someone. With people being jailed for criticising religion, political correctness it makes you wonder if freedom of speech really exists.

But what about sikhi, let's say khalistan was created, would the Hindus, Christians, dalits and whatever be allowed to criticise Sikhi? Would they be allowed to question the divinity of the gurus, guru granth sahib ji, miracles, sikh ithias, question and criticise the lives of the gurus and other sikh figures.  Would they be allowed to give their own interpretation of guru granth sahib ji?

If not, but one of them decides to, how would we deal with it? 

In most middle eastern countries you have you head chopped off for questioning Islam, what would happen in a sikh country? 

Not a trick question, just interested in knowing what others think of this ...

don't they already? Why do you think that the situation will be any different in Khalistan , are we the Musley who kill anyone and everyone on the say so of their sharia? Are we the pandits who would condemn the lowly to be punished because they spoke of our beliefs? Are we the fundamentalist christians? If no then what are told to do by Gurbani ? Keep our path, our counsel with Gurmukhs even our Guru ji tells us that to have understanding for all but keep to our path .

No non sikh should be given a platform to give their own 'interpretation' of Guru ji because we have seen what they have done in the past : distorted and disemminated  to support their own religions. Those  who criticise would be criticising what ? the message which is of one humanity under Akal Purakh? Of seeing others as equals ? Of living an honest and hardworking life? Of not criticising or abusing women? Of staying true to one wife/husband? Of doing swas gras simran? Of being compassionate to the people and the planet around us? of Appreciating the Bismad inducing gifts Akal Purakhs give us? Of not fearing death but lack of conscience, integrity, naam? Of simplifying the path ? of removing the power of priestly classes? Of making the path about action and not just words?

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Asia bibi is a Pakistani Christian woman who was sent to jail for saying something like "what has the muslim prophet done for humanity" after the local paki women called jesus a b@st@rd, because he didn't know his father. The whole row started when she used water from the muslim well which angered the muslim ladies because a "filthy christian" used their well.   she was jailed for 8 years.

 

Edited by puzzled

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23 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

What a peculiar question. 

well people are thrown into jails and fined around the world for questioning other peoples faiths so i was just wondering what Sikhs think of this.   Yes its a odd question lol    but this stuff is happening ...   

Edited by puzzled

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There's a difference between questioning/criticizing someones faith because you don't agree with it and, on the other hand there is deliberately trying to offend/hurt someone.  I guess it depends on the persons intentions.    its a touchy subject.

The gurus were questioned and criticized for what they said and taught, but never did they fine or kill the individuals that did question Sikhi.  

Edited by puzzled

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1 hour ago, puzzled said:

well people are thrown into jails and fined around the world for questioning other peoples faiths so i was just wondering what Sikhs think of this.   Yes its a odd question lol    but this stuff is happening ...   

usually it's only one particular faith that has major issues like that ... rest of the world seems to be able to handle healthy debate

Edited by jkvlondon

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23 hours ago, puzzled said:

well people are thrown into jails and fined around the world for questioning other peoples faiths so i was just wondering what Sikhs think of this.   Yes its a odd question lol    but this stuff is happening ...   

It's not an odd question, like you said, it implies reality. 

From what I've read over the years in historical sources, Sikhs or Sikhi has always been criticised. Be it by Moghuls or later the British (directly or through sponsored stooges). Read Ernest Trumpp's 'work' for a really scathing attack on Sikhs for example (written shortly after the 'annexation'). I've read pre colonial accounts by Moghuls attacking the keeping of kesh as making one no different from animals for another example.   Dabistan also records criticisms of Sikhs. Arya Samaj also criticised. 

Sikhs seem to have rebutted these things, or outright ignored them, probably seeing them (rightfully in my eyes) as obvious attacks by outsiders on a threat to their objectives.

Maybe we can go further and say that Sikhi itself seems to have an inbuilt/internal critical mechanism? Kukas criticised the state of Sikhi around them. Others too, like Bhagat Singh in his earlier days seems to have moved away from Sikhi (presumably) for his view that many apnay had compromised themselves to the imperialist agenda prevalent at the time. 

Criticism of Sikhs and Sikhi has always occurred from what I've seen. It's natural for foes to attack perceived adversaries. What's so shocking about that? 

Edited by dallysingh101
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17 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

It's not an odd question, like you said, it implies reality. 

From what I've read over the years in historical sources, Sikhs or Sikhi has always been criticised. Be it by Moghuls or later the British (directly or through sponsored stooges). Read Ernest Trumpp's 'work' for a really scathing attack on Sikhs for example (written shortly after the 'annexation'). I've read pre colonial accounts by Moghuls attacking the keeping of kesh as making one no different from animals for another example.   Dabistan also records criticisms of Sikhs. Arya Samaj also criticised. 

Sikhs seem to have rebutted these things, or outright ignored them, probably seeing them (rightfully in my eyes) as obvious attacks by outsiders on a threat to their objectives.

Maybe we can go further and say that Sikhi itself seems to have an inbuilt/internal critical mechanism? Kukas criticised the state of Sikhi around them. Others too, like Bhagat Singh in his earlier days seems to have moved away from Sikhi (presumably) for his view that many apnay had compromised themselves to the imperialist agenda prevalent at the time. 

Criticism of Sikhs and Sikhi has always occurred from what I've seen. It's natural for foes to attack perceived adversaries. What's so shocking about that? 

just reminds me of those pathetic guys who've been bested then shout out behind the person's back pointless jibes whilst choking their dust. We are going to be us no matter what the world says , you want to learn about us fine , we teach you , you want to be rude and nasty well we have a solution for that too ' mohale de kuttey nu bhokan di aadat hundia , koi parva karan di lodd nahin'

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SGGS, you can try to criticise SGGS but fail I.e. "This shabd doesn't match that shabd, this text is complete different from that." Etc etc. All words co ordinate into one another, from Ang 1 to Ang 1429. Even Sikh code of conduct co ordinates with SGGS! Something to think about...

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On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 9:42 PM, puzzled said:

Can people criticise Sikhi?

Recently some woman in Austria was fined and jailed for calling the muslim prophet a pedo. Now obviously different people will have different opinions on this, some will agree some won't. In European countries this is a very touchy subject and we now live in a politically correct culture where most people hesitate to voice their opinions in case they offend someone. With people being jailed for criticising religion, political correctness it makes you wonder if freedom of speech really exists.

But what about sikhi, let's say khalistan was created, would the Hindus, Christians, dalits and whatever be allowed to criticise Sikhi? Would they be allowed to question the divinity of the gurus, guru granth sahib ji, miracles, sikh ithias, question and criticise the lives of the gurus and other sikh figures.  Would they be allowed to give their own interpretation of guru granth sahib ji?

If not, but one of them decides to, how would we deal with it? 

In most middle eastern countries you have you head chopped off for questioning Islam, what would happen in a sikh country? 

Not a trick question, just interested in knowing what others think of this ...

this is a human thing, and not a sikh thing.

anyone who criticises any idea, the people who support will do their best to shut you up. eg any government. or major religion aka islam

you could argue that sikhi is different and should accept more and be the special one but idk tbh about that.

side note: I have done all of those questions lol, #prepared

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Sikhi can be criticized and has been over the years even some Guru sahibans own family members were against them in what their teachings. These wayward sons wanted to be next in line for guruship but as they were not Guru material and did not earn it so they were not given it and thus deviated from the Sikh path into their own little cults and sects. But because Sikhi is just full of humanitarian goodness and common sense most people who critise it come off looking worse or ignorant and dumb.

If someone makes fun of the Guru's or gurbani (like ignorant atheist, hindu, christian and muslim extremists) have done then Sikhs will obviously react. Small minority will react with rage and violently but most Sikhs will just feel angry for a bit then pitty and ignore the fool who has maligned such great human beings and teachings.

Because there is such very little ammunition you can use against the Gurus or gurbani. Whereas in christian, hindu and muslim scriptures and key figures you can come up with lots of things they did in history that we would in todays world find abhorrent or hard to comprehend. Such as hindu caste system, hindu God brahma sleeping with his daughter to create humanity, christian bible teaching  non-believers in Jesus will go to hellfire and that eve was the original sin so that's why humanity is sinful. Jewish and muslim scriptures teaching that they are the chosen people of God and that non-believers should be subservient for them and their lives and blood are nothing for the believers, the age of women the prophets had sex with etc,etc.

If Khalistan was created and its laws were according to Sikh ethics and philosophy then people would have a right to discuss and critise the beliefs however there would be no total freedom of speech or expression to mock and attack/belittle the Sikh religion or any other faith in a vile manor which would probably incure the wrath of the state meaning a long jail sentence, a heavy fine or exiling to a country were they can express such views. There would be no death sentence for blasphemy in Sikhi or a Sikh state. Just as in the west there is freedom of speech to a certain extent with zero tolerance for express of antisemitism or overt sexist or racist or threats to kill/harm expression of views with offenders facing lengthy prison sentences.

Edited by genie
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