Ego and Humility

[Ranjeet01]

In Sikhi we have the 5 thieves one of which is ego. And then we have 5 virtues one of which is humility. 

I have been thinking about of these two for a long time and even though they are complete opposites, it is in my estimation that they are extrinsicly linked. They are kind of two sides of the same coin. 

I don't think that you can totally get rid of ego. I think it is needed but it has to be controlled. Too much humility and you can become a complete doormat.

I look at ego and wonder if it is a necessity.

When I look at boxing for example, you can see a lot of ahankaar amongst boxers particularly before boxers but great nimrat between them afterwards. 

It seems that some level of ego might be healthy.

What is your opinion? 

[Amit12]

5 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In Sikhi we have the 5 thieves one of which is ego. And then we have 5 virtues one of which is humility. 

I have been thinking about of these two for a long time and even though they are complete opposites, it is in my estimation that they are extrinsicly linked. They are kind of two sides of the same coin. 

I don't think that you can totally get rid of ego. I think it is needed but it has to be controlled. Too much humility and you can become a complete doormat.

I look at ego and wonder if it is a necessity.

When I look at boxing for example, you can see a lot of ahankaar amongst boxers particularly before boxers but great nimrat between them afterwards. 

It seems that some level of ego might be healthy.

What is your opinion? 

I think what you are talking about is self confidence, not ego. 

[Guest GuestSingh]

6 hours ago, Ranjeet01 said:

In Sikhi we have the 5 thieves one of which is ego. And then we have 5 virtues one of which is humility. 

I have been thinking about of these two for a long time and even though they are complete opposites, it is in my estimation that they are extrinsicly linked. They are kind of two sides of the same coin. 

I don't think that you can totally get rid of ego. I think it is needed but it has to be controlled. Too much humility and you can become a complete doormat.

I look at ego and wonder if it is a necessity.

When I look at boxing for example, you can see a lot of ahankaar amongst boxers particularly before boxers but great nimrat between them afterwards. 

It seems that some level of ego might be healthy.

What is your opinion? 

ego seems like the root cause of all thieves...so if we dont have ego, we dont have any of the thieves...but then dont we need all of them to help us survive and achieve our purpose in life? i.e. a limit on kaam for procreation with an excess being sex for pleasure, a limit on krodh to channel into warrior spirit to fight injustice with an excess being hatred, jealousy etc. a limit on lobh for enough money to buy enough sustenance e.g. a simple life with an excess being materialism, a limit on moh to support and care for family and good folk with an excess being worry manifesting into anxiety, depression etc?

as u have already mentioned, we need to limit and control our vices but any influence no matter its significance always seems to 'tip' the balance from the limit we need towards excess we want to avoid....

if we had no ego, would we even have sikhi? did guru nanak dev ji have an ego to believe aspects of hindu life were false and reject em rather than accept it as the norm like everyone else? did guru gobind singh have an ego to resist islam and fight back rather than accept it like a lot of others? now we all know guru sahib is true and the form of akaal purakh on earth but from where does truth come? it seems 'good', 'righteous' and 'fair' to us but aren't those beliefs and is our own ego telling us that?

[singh598]

You believe that ego and humility are linked.  That ego cannot be rid off.  You believe that a humble being is a doormat ie. someone who is too humble and peaceful that he can be led astray.  You think that ego is a necessity and a certain amount healthy.

Here are quotations from Gurbani that criticize your thinking 

1. Ego and humility are not linked.  If one rises the other dies off.  Infact they are actually against each other.  As you become humble, ego dies...as you become egoistic, humbleness dies.

2.  To rid oneself of the ego is one of life's prime objectives.  Gurbani states that 

A) to kill the ego results in killing of the mind.  Without this how can God be obtained.  

B) Ego is against Naam and both cannot abide in the mind.

3. Being humble doesn't result in being a doormat.  Gurbani states: Gursikh is humble inside but wise as well.  In Japji Sahib it states a Gursikh never dies or gets defrauded.

4.  Brahmgiani mahapurkh have no ego.  In Asa Ki // there is a question "how does the ego die"...kith sanjam eh jaye

In another shabad of Sri Guru Granth Sahib its written that ego is a disease that is unhealthy.

Ego is never a good thing in Sikh philosophy, even a little bit for prorecreation, bir ras etc.

This has always been a false arguement that the 5 evils can never be eliminated but rather should be controlled and tamed 

 

 

[Guest GuestSingh]

1 hour ago, Amit12 said:

I think what you are talking about is self confidence, not ego. 

nah thats different...self-confidence comes from ego since ur believing what u think in ur mind makes u what society has conditioned u to believe is confident?

e.g. if western society defines self-confidence as certain means to survive in this world, havent u already got an ego for deciding its true?

[Ranjeet01]

48 minutes ago, singh598 said:

You believe that ego and humility are linked.  That ego cannot be rid off.  You believe that a humble being is a doormat ie. someone who is too humble and peaceful that he can be led astray.  You think that ego is a necessity and a certain amount healthy.

Here are quotations from Gurbani that criticize your thinking 

1. Ego and humility are not linked.  If one rises the other dies off.  Infact they are actually against each other.  As you become humble, ego dies...as you become egoistic, humbleness dies.

2.  To rid oneself of the ego is one of life's prime objectives.  Gurbani states that 

A) to kill the ego results in killing of the mind.  Without this how can God be obtained.  

B) Ego is against Naam and both cannot abide in the mind.

3. Being humble doesn't result in being a doormat.  Gurbani states: Gursikh is humble inside but wise as well.  In Japji Sahib it states a Gursikh never dies or gets defrauded.

4.  Brahmgiani mahapurkh have no ego.  In Asa Ki // there is a question "how does the ego die"...kith sanjam eh jaye

In another shabad of Sri Guru Granth Sahib its written that ego is a disease that is unhealthy.

Ego is never a good thing in Sikh philosophy, even a little bit for prorecreation, bir ras etc.

This has always been a false arguement that the 5 evils can never be eliminated but rather should be controlled and tamed 

 

 

Your first point you just mentioned that as your humbleness increases that your ego dies and vica versa.

This proves my point, they are not mutually exclusive. They are connected.

In my point of view, the two needs to be balanced. 

Your point three asserts that being I am saying that humble makes you a doormat. What I am saying is "too" much humility can make one a doormat. Can too much of this virtue make one less assertive? Does too much of it make one a pushover? 

How does livinga ghristhi jeevan being a complete pushover living amongst other humans?

[singh598]

27 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

Your first point you just mentioned that as your humbleness increases that your ego dies and vica versa.

This proves my point, they are not mutually exclusive. They are connected.

I AGREE WITH YOU 

In my point of view, the two needs to be balanced. 

NO BALANCE BUT ELIMINATE THE EGO

Your point three asserts that being I am saying that humble makes you a doormat. What I am saying is "too" much humility can make one a doormat. Can too much of this virtue make one less assertive? Does too much of it make one a pushover? 

NO

How does livinga ghristhi jeevan being a complete pushover living amongst other humans?

JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE HUMILITY DOESNT MEAN YOU HAVE TO BE PUSHED ABOUT 

 

 

[singh598]

31 minutes ago, Ranjeet01 said:

How does livinga ghristhi jeevan being a complete pushover living amongst other humans?

Humility is the protection fence that guards your spiritual wealth.

None of the 5 special virtues should be limited.

Look at Sri Chand he is the son of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself.

Now 5th Guru of Sri Chands fathers religious institutions meets Sri Chand, but gets his long beard and cleans Sri Chands feet.

If someone tries to exploit your humbleness then you should be aware and have caution.

THE FAULT ISNT IN HUMILITY IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE PUSHED AROUND 

[singh598]

I think you are confusing humility with being naive

[RajKaregaKhalsa1]

1 hour ago, singh598 said:

Humility is the protection fence that guards your spiritual wealth.

None of the 5 special virtues should be limited.

Look at Sri Chand he is the son of Dhan Dhan Guru Nanak Dev Ji himself.

Now 5th Guru of Sri Chands fathers religious institutions meets Sri Chand, but gets his long beard and cleans Sri Chands feet.

If someone tries to exploit your humbleness then you should be aware and have caution.

THE FAULT ISNT IN HUMILITY IF YOU CHOOSE TO BE PUSHED AROUND 

Wasn't it Sri Guru Raam Daas ji Maharaaj Who did said I have long beard to clean the feet of saints like you?

Sri Chand replied, after hearing Guru Sahib's humility, this is why you are where you are - the Takhat of Guru Nanak Dev ji Maharaaj. 

Another beautiful Sakhi is when Guru Amar Das ji Maharaaj became the Guru, Guru Angad Dev Ji Maharaaj's son went up to Guru Sahib and said something like you don't deserve to have this throne. And then he kicked Guru Sahib. Guru Sahib in his utmost humility, said how blessed I am to be touching the feet of my Guru's son. Then he starting rubbing the feet of the son and said I must have hurt you, my bones are old.