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Guest Sat_Kaur

Christian Missionary Friend converting

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Guest Sat_Kaur

WGK-WGF

I work in retail management for the last couple of years, and from the first day, my supervisor who happened to be a Christian Missionary, been harassing me to go to church services. Even telling me how, some Sikhi people are attending their masses and Bible Study circles. She even went to India with her missionary family, who are originally from Texas to spread their religion. But now, she's reading the kuran, stopped going to church and even talking to me about islamic stuff. She knows I am a Sikh but how do I politely tell her to go away! She kept asking me how our Guru's be God, because apparently there is a video on YouTube, by Basics of Sikhi where Bhai Jugraj says Sikhs should worship the Gurus because they are God's. I just ignore her, but I never knew this is part of Sikhi? Is it true?

May be someone could give me some advice about how to talk to such people.

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Guru Nanak Dev ji was Akal Purkh on earth.   just how they christians believe jesus was god on earth.    Thats why we dont believe our gurus are "dead"   they are still with us because God does not die   thats why we ask our gurus     

You supervisor seems a bit thick and confused 

At work we have a similar paki man who bangs on about islam all the time and he started questioning a christian girl about jesus and how they believe he is a prophet and not god, she didnt wanna answer and politely said no comment, he asked her a few more questions and she simply said no comment.  he then shut up     you can say the same  

If she dont listen just tell her to p1ss off and do one  

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Guest GuestSingh
On 10/2/2019 at 7:18 PM, puzzled said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji was Akal Purkh on earth.   just how they christians believe jesus was god on earth.    Thats why we dont believe our gurus are "dead"   they are still with us because God does not die   thats why we ask our gurus     

You supervisor seems a bit thick and confused 

At work we have a similar paki man who bangs on about islam all the time and he started questioning a christian girl about jesus and how they believe he is a prophet and not god, she didnt wanna answer and politely said no comment, he asked her a few more questions and she simply said no comment.  he then shut up     you can say the same  

If she dont listen just tell her to p1ss off and do one  

same.

n if nots that then its how great pakistan/imran khan/isi etc or the constant injustice against muslims in j&k etc. instead of ignorin him or gettin annoyed, my preference is to immediately start talkin abt sikhi/political issues in panjab. he seems to get bored easily with small conversation n dnt like talkin too much myself but he only tends to listen wiv interest if u keep talkin for the same length of time he does.

hes not completely bad but from the first day it felt like he was tryin to convert. however from the first conversation my approach hasnt really changed. think he gets it now but that doesnt mean he aint gna change his ways.

maybe the op can try somethin like this too. or jus completely ignore her n switch off weneva she brings it up/starts talkin abt it.

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Guest Sat_Kaur
On 10/2/2019 at 7:18 PM, puzzled said:

Guru Nanak Dev ji was Akal Purkh on earth.   just how they christians believe jesus was god on earth.    Thats why we dont believe our gurus are "dead"   they are still with us because God does not die   thats why we ask our gurus     

You supervisor seems a bit thick and confused 

At work we have a similar paki man who bangs on about islam all the time and he started questioning a christian girl about jesus and how they believe he is a prophet and not god, she didnt wanna answer and politely said no comment, he asked her a few more questions and she simply said no comment.  he then shut up     you can say the same  

If she dont listen just tell her to p1ss off and do one  

I am confused. If Guru's were God, than the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji too is God? I am sorry, but how can the writtings of islamic people, like Bhagath Kabeer and Farid be God? Didn't Guru Gobind Sikgh Ji say ""Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell"?

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8 hours ago, GuestSingh said:

same.

n if nots that then its how great pakistan/imran khan/isi etc or the constant injustice against muslims in j&k etc. instead of ignorin him or gettin annoyed, my preference is to immediately start talkin abt sikhi/political issues in panjab. he seems to get bored easily with small conversation n dnt like talkin too much myself but he only tends to listen wiv interest if u keep talkin for the same length of time he does.

hes not completely bad but from the first day it felt like he was tryin to convert. however from the first conversation my approach hasnt really changed. think he gets it now but that doesnt mean he aint gna change his ways.

maybe the op can try somethin like this too. or jus completely ignore her n switch off weneva she brings it up/starts talkin abt it.

Yh  muslims aren't interested in hearing about political issues in other communities    they only love banging on about their own problems   in their eyes injustice against a Muslim is a lot greater than injustice against a non muslim, Muslim problems are more important than non muslim problems and that's how they expect everyone else to see it. In their eyes a muslims suffering is greater than a non muslims suffering.  That's why they are ignorant to the political problems that other communities face       they have this self importance

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Guest sat
On 10/1/2019 at 2:18 PM, Guest Sat_Kaur said:

WGK-WGF

I work in retail management for the last couple of years, and from the first day, my supervisor who happened to be a Christian Missionary, been harassing me to go to church services. Even telling me how, some Sikhi people are attending their masses and Bible Study circles. She even went to India with her missionary family, who are originally from Texas to spread their religion. But now, she's reading the kuran, stopped going to church and even talking to me about islamic stuff. She knows I am a Sikh but how do I politely tell her to go away! She kept asking me how our Guru's be God, because apparently there is a video on YouTube, by Basics of Sikhi where Bhai Jugraj says Sikhs should worship the Gurus because they are God's. I just ignore her, but I never knew this is part of Sikhi? Is it true?

May be someone could give me some advice about how to talk to such people.

Tell her that we are All God..the Ocean is in the drop and the drop is in the Ocean. 

 

All is Truth. Read Gurbani and undertsand it, ask God for guidance. 

 

First we need to discover who we Truly are and detach. And when you have, teaching others out of Maya will be easy. 

 

 

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10 hours ago, puzzled said:

Yh  muslims aren't interested in hearing about political issues in other communities    they only love banging on about their own problems   in their eyes injustice against a Muslim is a lot greater than injustice against a non muslim, Muslim problems are more important than non muslim problems and that's how they expect everyone else to see it. In their eyes a muslims suffering is greater than a non muslims suffering.  That's why they are ignorant to the political problems that other communities face       they have this self importance

Would you view Sikh suffering greater then Muslim suffering? 

When you donate to charity would you donate to Sikh or Muslim Charity. 

The fact is everyone is biased for their own faith. 

Hindus care and Hindus

Christians care about Christians

Why should Muslims not care about their own people more? Is not human nature.

 

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Guest Empathy
11 hours ago, puzzled said:

Yh  muslims aren't interested in hearing about political issues in other communities    they only love banging on about their own problems   in their eyes injustice against a Muslim is a lot greater than injustice against a non muslim, Muslim problems are more important than non muslim problems and that's how they expect everyone else to see it. In their eyes a muslims suffering is greater than a non muslims suffering.  That's why they are ignorant to the political problems that other communities face       they have this self importance

Thanks Puzzled for informing me that I am not interested in hearing about political issues in other communities. Would I be entertaining your ill-informed views if that were the case?

Neither I, nor my friends, nor my family EVER 'bang on' about our own problems. We realise how tremendously blessed we are not to be living in any Muslim or non-Muslim part of the world where food and shelter are not taken for granted, and we would never insult the integrity of people who go without to call our minor distractions 'problems'.

If you had ever seen true suffering, you would know that its effects scream out to anybody with ears – that includes us, Muslims. I couldn't ignore a person suffering any more than you could. I hope in my heart that you do far more than I can to alleviate other people's suffering because that would at the very least assure me that you never walk past a person who stretches their hand out to you.

The self-importance that Muslims have is no more an issue of self esteem that people, Sikhs included (if this forum is to be believed), claim for themselves (rightfully, or wrongfully) when they are confident of the path they have chosen. That's actually a woeful interpretation of God's blessing to us. It's His religion that is great, not we the people who follow.

To bring some balance to your views on Muslims; I don't doubt that the Muslims you know, or 'debate' with are lacking in humility. I suggest that it's the nature of your encounters with them that prompts their expressions of self-importance. Good on you if you retain some decorum about your own beliefs when challenged by them. 

The Qur'an tells us that justice is above one's kin. Therefore, in the pursuit of justice, in the struggle to combat injustice, nobody's pain and suffering can be overlooked.

 

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52 minutes ago, Big_Tera said:

Would you view Sikh suffering greater then Muslim suffering? 

When you donate to charity would you donate to Sikh or Muslim Charity. 

The fact is everyone is biased for their own faith. 

Hindus care and Hindus

Christians care about Christians

Why should Muslims not care about their own people more? Is not human nature.

 

according to sharia law non muslims should pay tax for living in a muslim country  jizya       sikhs and hindus had to pay tax to the mughal darbar     when you start seeing other communities so differently that they have to pay tax for being non muslims then that is barbaric.

thats how skewed the muslim vision is      then people wonder why muslims treat non muslims the way they do    their own islamic laws tell them that there is a difference.

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Guest Empathy
On 10/4/2019 at 10:09 PM, puzzled said:

according to sharia law non muslims should pay tax for living in a muslim country  jizya       sikhs and hindus had to pay tax to the mughal darbar   

Oh dear, Puzzled! I won't go into the specifics of Sharia law but will assume you realise that your (and most people's) understanding falls way behind that of classical and contemporary jurists. What I will say is that among the political landscapes of Muslim countries today, the only 'Islamic' state that saw fit to impose jizya was that of ISIS. Nobody – Muslim, or otherwise – can expect there to be any fairness in any of the impositions those people sanctioned. You can call their imposition of jizya Islamic, I won't. 

In classical Islam, where the conditions for fair application of Sharia law existed, jizya was levied on non-Muslim males in exchange for that their families would be protected and receive the full benefits of the state. Muslim did not pay jizya. Instead, they (men and women) had to pay a higher rate of tax called zakat. These days, the make-up of society has changed and an introduction of jizya would be economic folly. 

It's too easy to grab hold of Islamic ideals that, on the face of it, seem discriminatory without looking into the history and present day relevance or application. The same can be said of some Sikh practices, but I won't be drawn into distractions. I'm sure anybody reading some of the threads on these forums would be appalled at some of the language (Paki/sullah etc), but would it be correct to assume that Sikhs are racist? I do hope not.

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On 10/4/2019 at 9:15 AM, Guest Sat_Kaur said:

I am confused. If Guru's were God, than the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji too is God? I am sorry, but how can the writtings of islamic people, like Bhagath Kabeer and Farid be God? Didn't Guru Gobind Sikgh Ji say ""Those who call me God, will fall into the deep pit of hell"?

Bhai Gurdas ji says in his vaarns describes Guru Nanak Dev Jis the Sargun and nirgun are one.  Guru Granth sahib ji is the word of Waheguru. Guru Gobind Singh ji says that if we desire meeting him then we should sit before Guru Granth sahib ji, if we desire to talk to him then we should read bani.       

ਪਾਰਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਪੂਰਨ ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਕਲਿਜੁਗ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਇਕ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ।

Paarabrahamu Pooran Brahamu Kalijugi Andari Iku Dikhaaiaa |

He preached in this darkage (kaliyug) that, saragun (Brahm) and nirgun (Parbrahm) are the same and identical.

ਵਾਰਾਂ ਭਾਈ ਗੁਰਦਾਸ : ਵਾਰ ੧ ਪਉੜੀ ੨੩ ਪੰ. ੩

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I think that Guru Nanak Dev Ji is considered like God, but not the later Gurus.  

which is still confusing as we are not allowed to believe that God takes birth.

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On 10/14/2019 at 5:03 PM, Guest guest said:

I think that Guru Nanak Dev Ji is considered like God, but not the later Gurus.  

which is still confusing as we are not allowed to believe that God takes birth.

Hmm, interesting concepts.  Some call the entire line of Gurus Nanak. 

Guru Granth Sahib Ji says Akal Poorakh is both form and formless, birthed and not, and beyond all these concepts? Also is it not said when khel is over, the actors take off their masks and reveal there was only ever One actor? 

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