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So when you see the likes of badals, captain amrinder singh, sgpc, indian establishment, british estaliblishment, abrahamic missionaries, international financiers, bankers, vatican church, royal families, cooperation tycoons, military intelligence agencies, terrorist group leaders. All connected and covering up for each other and helping each other in their wicked schemes it ultimately comes down to money.

All racial, economic, social inequality stems from the loot these people amassed and the riches of other peoples labour and other nations they stole off and now hoarded and hidden away in bank vaults. They have the wealth they have the weapons they have the power to dictate how society is to run and this is why racism and discrimination exists in society it's not in their interests to change the status quo they don't want to share the wealth like Sikhi says, they dont want to see people united like sikhi says they want people divided and conquered.

This is why they want Sikhs and Sikhi oppressed as it will make societies a more fairer place and free people out of mental, physical and financial slavery

Here's a little insight below how the elites of the former british empire cover up their international crimes and indulge in off shore tax evasion.

 

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This is why they want Sikhs and Sikhi oppressed as it will make societies a more fairer place and free people out of mental, physical and financial slavery

That's one leap in logic I'm struggling to comprehend. What are the Sikh contributions that are currently making society a fairer place? How are we any different to any other in demographic in practice as opposed to theory? Facts, please, not emotionally driven rhetoric.

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7 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

That's one leap in logic I'm struggling to comprehend. What are the Sikh contributions that are currently making society a fairer place? How are we any different to any other in demographic in practice as opposed to theory? Facts, please, not emotionally driven rhetoric.

Logic being that when we had our Sikh raj society was much fairer no one went hungry when maharajah ranjit singh passed poor people it is said he gave away something to keep the people looked after. Sikh raj where all people was treated equally no religious community got to oppress the other, and there was equality of opportunity in his government and army too. Look at the capitalist societies today there is incredible wealth at the top 1% and incredible poverty at the bottom 99% of the pyramid.

When we had muslims ruled over punjab we saw non-muslims were treated as 3rd class citizens and brutally oppressed same as christian british rule they racially oppressed the natives.

And what do we have in present day punjab? its the elites all banding together keeping their chairs safe against the interests of the people they claim to represent. So we have the badals and captain amrinder singhs who are related by marriages. They pretend to be Sikhs, they appear to be sikhs but wWhat have they done for Sikhs and Sikhi? zero contribution really.......they have let the british and indian establishment drain the wealth of punjab dry. Why do they allow it? because they are leaders and puppets of the same corrupt regimes thats responsible for oppression sikhs and sikhi.

The British establishment covers for the genocidal crimes of the indian establishment. Why? because the "elites" of these establishments have hoarded away the wealth stolen from our nations and communities so naturally like a den of thieves they look out for each other against the people they stole off from.

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2 minutes ago, genie said:

Logic being that when we had our Sikh raj society was much fairer no one went hungry when maharajah ranjit singh passed poor people it is said he gave away something to keep the people looked after. Sikh raj where all people was treated equally no religious community got to oppress the other, and there was equality of opportunity in his government and army too.

When we had muslims rule over punjab we saw non-muslims were treated as 3rd class citizens and brutally oppressed same as christian british rule they racially oppressed the natives.

And what do we have in present day punjab? its the elites all banding together keeping their chairs safe against the interests of the people they claim to represent. So we have the badals and captain amrinder singhs who are related by marriages. What have they done for Sikhs and Sikhi? zero contribution really.......they have let the british and indian establishment drain the wealth of punjab dry. Why do they allow it? because they are leaders and puppets of the corrupt regimes.

The British establishment covers for the genocidal crimes of the indian establishment. Why? because the "elites" of these establishments have hoarded away the wealth stolen from our nations and communities so naturally like a den of thieves they look out for each other against the people they stole off from.

A Sikh raaj that all but collapsed as soon as Ranjit Singh drew his last breath due to incompetence, greed and unintelligence of Sikhs. A Sikh raaj that was more concerned about inclusivity of Musleh and Hindus than prioritising Sikh interests and Sikh personnel. Rather than investing in disloyal non-Sikh mercenaries, where was the drive to recruit Sikh individuals who could be moulded using the Sikh identity as a binding force? Talk about low Sikh numbers, then where was the parchaar? Why build mosques and mandirs? Weree there not any in the rest of India? Muslims and Hindus had their empires, yet when we finally fought and won ours, we were more concerned with virtue signalling and placating these hyenas pretending to be our friends.

Treachery and deception played its part, but even those issues could've been mitigated by a ruthless and Sikh-prioritising leadership. The Dogras and the Sikh spies reporting to the British were not a great mystery even at the time. A Night of Long Kirpans (Google it but replace Kirpan with Knives) might have meant a Sikh empire that was still around today.

Blame the British and the rest, quite rightly at times, but the burden of the betrayal falls on us. 

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13 hours ago, genie said:

So when you see the likes of badals, captain amrinder singh, sgpc, indian establishment, british estaliblishment, abrahamic missionaries, international financiers, bankers, vatican church, royal families, cooperation tycoons, military intelligence agencies, terrorist group leaders. All connected and covering up for each other and helping each other in their wicked schemes it ultimately comes down to money.

All racial, economic, social inequality stems from the loot these people amassed and the riches of other peoples labour and other nations they stole off and now hoarded and hidden away in bank vaults. They have the wealth they have the weapons they have the power to dictate how society is to run and this is why racism and discrimination exists in society it's not in their interests to change the status quo they don't want to share the wealth like Sikhi says, they dont want to see people united like sikhi says they want people divided and conquered.

This is why they want Sikhs and Sikhi oppressed as it will make societies a more fairer place and free people out of mental, physical and financial slavery

Here's a little insight below how the elites of the former british empire cover up their international crimes and indulge in off shore tax evasion.

 

Wow!! Paji, you have really hit the nail here!   I have been thinking like this for over 2 years now, but no one ever takes any notice of me.  I hope your post will not only open everyone’s eyes on this forum but also educate them to think logically. See, the biggest problem we face in this day and age is that no one is bothered to observe what’s going on around them anymore. Everyone is too busy doing other  things, which can be classified as not only mundane but also  as waste of their precious  intelligence.. I hope people will now start changing their outlook on this rotten world which has not only addled their minds beyond any foreseeable recovery but also led them to apathy. The last time I said anything as remotely as intelligent as your post to some people at a social gathering was a while ago, when  I received a slap for being too cocky or too big for my boots. God save us from these aunty jis and uncle Jis. I have definitely started to keep my mouth under lock and key since then.

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4 hours ago, MisterrSingh said:

A Sikh raaj that all but collapsed as soon as Ranjit Singh drew his last breath due to incompetence, greed and unintelligence of Sikhs. A Sikh raaj that was more concerned about inclusivity of Musleh and Hindus than prioritising Sikh interests and Sikh personnel. Rather than investing in disloyal non-Sikh mercenaries, where was the drive to recruit Sikh individuals who could be moulded using the Sikh identity as a binding force? Talk about low Sikh numbers, then where was the parchaar? Why build mosques and mandirs? Weree there not any in the rest of India? Muslims and Hindus had their empires, yet when we finally fought and won ours, we were more concerned with virtue signalling and placating these hyenas pretending to be our friends.

Treachery and deception played its part, but even those issues could've been mitigated by a ruthless and Sikh-prioritising leadership. The Dogras and the Sikh spies reporting to the British were not a great mystery even at the time. A Night of Long Kirpans (Google it but replace Kirpan with Knives) might have meant a Sikh empire that was still around today.

Blame the British and the rest, quite rightly at times, but the burden of the betrayal falls on us. 

I don't think your getting the point. Yes all that went on and the Sikh raj wasnt perfect had many faults and many traitorous opportunistic people were waiting to weaken and collapse it. But for us Sikhs it was ours, we were not enslaved by invaders and outsiders we were not suffering from problems that the panth is suffering today. We were on a upwards trajectory by spreading Sikh rule on lands that hadnt seen non-muslim rule for hundreds of years. And why did it collapse? Because of the greed people who we see similarly in charge of punjab and the panth today. The so called leaders are the very ones who are living comfortably who aided the british to come in impose their rule install their anglo-saxon christo-judaic software to control our lands and people.

It is greed and money that is root of all evil, the people betrayed their own faith and people for their own self interests. Sikhi was started not just a philosophical faith to combat social ills of society but also the financial inequality and racism/castism people were suffering under the people with power. We similarly saw how emperor's of the past ruthlessly massacred people who stood in their way or opposed their injustice and today similarly the same mentality exists in people with power. if you oppose their unjust rule, even peacefully protest you get gunned down and genocided eventually.

If i was a sikh ruler and I wanted to implement a society based on Sikhi I would have to do away with all legacy british empire made laws and change the economy of the nation that actually worked for the benefit of the people. This is why so many people flocked to Sikhi under the guru's than stay trapped under the rule of hindu hill raja kingdoms or muslim invaders.

Today It's the anglo-saxon judicial legacy capitalist international banking system that is enemies of peoples of oppressed people everywhere. Those guardians of that system come in many form including our own so called Sikhs who uphold that system instead of upholding Sikh centric system.

2071736369_sikheconomicmodel3.jpg.91101a8543e9d8504375f2e369a57050.jpg

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They have a mega problem with the  Sikh identity and Sikhs demanding a separate homeland for their future generations. They are living under constant fear with this ever happening again. They know if they crush the Sikh identity they will crush their dreams for a separate homeland. Basically, using Sikhs to set as an example for the rest of India’s  multitudinous ethnic minorities. Divide and conquer is the best policy for them for the time being. After all, this is the legacy left behind India’s all time rulers or masters. 

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16 minutes ago, genie said:

I don't think your getting the point. Yes all that went on and the Sikh raj wasnt perfect had many faults and many traitorous opportunistic people were waiting to weaken and collapse it. But for us Sikhs it was ours, we were not enslaved by invaders and outsiders we were not suffering from problems that the panth is suffering today. We were on a upwards trajectory by spreading Sikh rule on lands that hadnt seen non-muslim rule for hundreds of years. And why did it collapse? Because of the greed people who we see similarly in charge of punjab and the panth today. The so called leaders are the very ones who are living comfortably who aided the british to come in impose their rule install their anglo-saxon christo-judaic software to control our lands and people.

It is greed and money that is root of all evil, the people betrayed their own faith and people for their own self interests. Sikhi was started not just a philosophical faith to combat social ills of society but also the financial inequality and racism/castism people were suffering under the people with power. We similarly saw how emperor's of the past ruthlessly massacred people who stood in their way or opposed their injustice and today similarly the same mentality exists in people with power. if you oppose their unjust rule, even peacefully protest you get gunned down and genocided eventually.

If i was a sikh ruler and I wanted to implement a society based on Sikhi I would have to do away with all legacy british empire made laws and change the economy of the nation that actually worked for the benefit of the people. This is why so many people flocked to Sikhi under the guru's than stay trapped under the rule of hindu hill raja kingdoms or muslim invaders.

Today It's the anglo-saxon judicial legacy capitalist international banking system that is enemies of peoples of oppressed people everywhere. Those guardians of that system come in many form including our own so called Sikhs who uphold that system instead of upholding Sikh centric system.

So true!

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1 hour ago, MisterrSingh said:

A Sikh raaj that all but collapsed as soon as Ranjit Singh drew his last breath due to incompetence, greed and unintelligence of Sikhs. A Sikh raaj that was more concerned about inclusivity of Musleh and Hindus than prioritising Sikh interests and Sikh personnel. Rather than investing in disloyal non-Sikh mercenaries, where was the drive to recruit Sikh individuals who could be moulded using the Sikh identity as a binding force? Talk about low Sikh numbers, then where was the parchaar? Why build mosques and mandirs? Weree there not any in the rest of India? Muslims and Hindus had their empires, yet when we finally fought and won ours, we were more concerned with virtue signalling and placating these hyenas pretending to be our friends.

Treachery and deception played its part, but even those issues could've been mitigated by a ruthless and Sikh-prioritising leadership. The Dogras and the Sikh spies reporting to the British were not a great mystery even at the time. A Night of Long Kirpans (Google it but replace Kirpan with Knives) might have meant a Sikh empire that was still around today.

Blame the British and the rest, quite rightly at times, but the burden of the betrayal falls on us. 

tbh i think the Sikh empire is made out to be a lot secular and inclusive than it actually was. During the early years it was quite harsh on Muslims. Before M.Ranjit Singhs raj the Bhangis actually taxed the Muslims lol  just how their people taxed us. The Masjid in Lahore was turned into a horse stable while the minars were used as watch towers, cannons were placed in the masjid, much of it had to be repaired during the British period. And even when M.Ranjit Singh came into power things weren't all that nice and cosy for the Muslims. The Empire continued taxing Muslims for many years. The Sunheri Masjid in Lahore was raided by Sikhs and held for several months, can't remember but they either turned into a Gurdwara or wanted to turn it into a Gurdwara but had to be persuaded by other Sikhs to return it back to the Muslims. The Azaan was not allowed to be sung out loud, there actually were a lot of restrictions on them! Many Mughal buildings including the Masjids were actually raided by Sikhs as well. Basically the way the Muslims had treated Sikhs/Hindus the Sikhs treated them the same way minus the persecution. 

The only Mosque that was built by him was one for the kanjris of Lahore after Morans request, because the muslims never used to let kanjris enter.

During his latter years he did become more lax and lifted a lot of the restrictions on the Muslims, many say it was because of Morans influence? who knows ... 

As for Hindus  i think the line between Sikhs and Hindus was a lot more blurred than it is today, like Jatt Sikhs and Hindus married, just how the Rajput Sikhs and Hindus married and so on.

But despite this even back then many Sardars of the darbar were strongly against the role of the Dogras and other Hindus in the empire, like the Sandwaliya Sardars. More orthodox Sikhs like the Akalis and people like Hari Singh Nalwa were against the position that Hindus like the Dogras held and they were quite loud and clear about it as well. Why M.Ranjit Singh trusted the Dogras so much is confusing! many sardars from the darbar used to warn him.

I think the main problem was M.Ranjit Singhs offspring were rubbish and had no leadership qualities. His Grandson Nau Nihal Singh on the other hand was very much like his grandfather, he was intelligent and very popular among Sikhs, he even knocked his own father off the throne and briefly ran the empire, the people within the empire who were aware of his potential got him killed off on the very day he became Maharaja. 

I think too many personalities who were just regular farmers or shopkeepers one day and then rose to unimaginable power and position the next all wanted a piece of the cake. Then there was the internal family feud.

But the whole secular thing has hugely been blown out of proportion! and the sjw types love using the whole Sikh empire secular thing, when in actual reality it wasn't the case! Secular people do not raid and overtake other places of worship or tax them! 

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29 minutes ago, kangw said:

They have a mega problem with the  Sikh identity and Sikhs demanding a separate homeland for their future generations. They are living under constant fear with this ever happening again. They know if they crush the Sikh identity they will crush their demand for a separate homeland. Basically, using Sikhs to set as an example for the rest of Indias multitudinous ethnic minorities. Divide and conquer is the best policy for them for the time being. After all, this is the legacy left behind India’s all time masters. 

Exactly bro, the reason why the british imperialists was so fearful of the Sikh empire and the last indian kingdom to be conquered was because of their economic system of governance and military derived from the Sikh faith. So once they had managed to wage war and take it over they then installed their christian missionaries all over the place to subdue the people. This is why I wrote the other thread what is the reason for all these missionaries? Its because its a continually of oppression of the same british empire system that enslaved the people in the first place and why the natives of punjab resisted christianity and resisted islam when they first came to the lands. The punjabi's are hot blooded they do not take kindly to oppressive regimes that steal from the people overtly or covertly.

When general o'dwyer opened fire on the peaceful protestors at the jallinwala bagh it wasnt because he wanted to massacre people for the sake of it. He said in his own words he feared rebellion in punjab and so it was his way to crush it early on and teach the people a lesson not to rise up even if they was peaceful because he wanted to set an example that the rulers were willing to murder and genocide them. Similarly we saw what indira gandhi and her establishment did they did that because they feared punjab feared Sikhs they wanted to teach the rebelious Sikhs that they are in power and a genocide was their way of the same system of oppression to show them not to oppose their unjust rule.

And if we go back to the examples of our Guru's our 6th guru built the sri akal takht sahib as a sovereign challenge to the brutal oppressive mughul rulers of the day. After the martyrdom of guru arjan sahib ji it was game on:

spacer.png

(kar sewa and rebuilding of sri akal takht sahib after destruction of it by the indian state in 1980s)

The original takht was a simple platform, 3.5 meters (11 ft.) high and stood a little taller than the Mughal Emperors throne in Red Fort Delhi intentionally as a statement about the soverignty of the Sikhs outside the other worldly Governments. Guru Hargobind Sahib would sit in court to receive petitions and administer justice. He was surrounded by insignia of royalty such as the parasol and the flywhisk. Many Sikhs gathered here for the redressal of their grievances. The Guru desired the Sikhs to bring arms and horses as part of their offerings in order to uphold the sovereignty of the Guru and the Sangat. This was readily done and some of them personally joined Darbar Sahibs armed gaurd. Here, Guru Hargobind Sahib watched the Sikhs performing exercises in the art of warfare.

 

Th

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3 hours ago, genie said:

I don't think your getting the point. Yes all that went on and the Sikh raj wasnt perfect had many faults and many traitorous opportunistic people were waiting to weaken and collapse it. But for us Sikhs it was ours, we were not enslaved by invaders and outsiders we were not suffering from problems that the panth is suffering today. We were on a upwards trajectory by spreading Sikh rule on lands that hadnt seen non-muslim rule for hundreds of years. And why did it collapse? Because of the greed people who we see similarly in charge of punjab and the panth today. The so called leaders are the very ones who are living comfortably who aided the british to come in impose their rule install their anglo-saxon christo-judaic software to control our lands and people.

It is greed and money that is root of all evil, the people betrayed their own faith and people for their own self interests. Sikhi was started not just a philosophical faith to combat social ills of society but also the financial inequality and racism/castism people were suffering under the people with power. We similarly saw how emperor's of the past ruthlessly massacred people who stood in their way or opposed their injustice and today similarly the same mentality exists in people with power. if you oppose their unjust rule, even peacefully protest you get gunned down and genocided eventually.

If i was a sikh ruler and I wanted to implement a society based on Sikhi I would have to do away with all legacy british empire made laws and change the economy of the nation that actually worked for the benefit of the people. This is why so many people flocked to Sikhi under the guru's than stay trapped under the rule of hindu hill raja kingdoms or muslim invaders.

Today It's the anglo-saxon judicial legacy capitalist international banking system that is enemies of peoples of oppressed people everywhere. Those guardians of that system come in many form including our own so called Sikhs who uphold that system instead of upholding Sikh centric system.

2071736369_sikheconomicmodel3.jpg.91101a8543e9d8504375f2e369a57050.jpg

I get you. All great points. I'm just adding a note of caution that we should be as harsh and honest about our failings and our "own" -- and be determined to root it out early in order to anticipate and prevent any greater future calamity -- in addition to being eager to identify outside forces who bear us ill intentions.

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