Can Indians ever get past idolatry

[puzzled 3,828]

Been thinking about this for some time now. Can Indians, including Sikhs, ever get past idolatry?

I've been India/Punjab several times, and they are idolaters, that's the culture and the way of life in that country. They worship statues, ancestral tombs, graves, animals, trees/plants, humans, everything!

People from Sikh backgrounds are mainly idolaters as well. 

The Gurdwara in my dads pind is open during the morning and then they lock it up till 6pm for Rehras Sahib and then lock it again till the next morning! Why? because no one is interested.

On the other hand the local jaggas/tombs etc are always busy. Where my parents are from the busiest religious place is a tomb. If you go to this tomb on a Sunday then you have to stand in the queue for at least half an hour! that's how busy it is. Visit a Gurdwara on Sunday, no one there! 

Its as if people in that country, including Sikhs, need something in front of them to worship, an idol, tree, human, they just need something there. Sitting there and doing simran, does not satisfy them! 

For some idols are not enough so they become a member of a dera! and the baba becomes a living idol! 

Because of my families beliefs in India, I've bowed down to very strange looking idols, Muslims graves, Tree/plants, and goats and so many other things! 

Can Indians ever get past idolatry? its very much part of the culture and everyday life there, it has been for 1000s of years, Its deeply imbedded in them. 

Separating Indians and idolatry is like separating sand from salt! 

It reminds of the sakhi of when many people became Singhs but they continued believing in superstitions and idols, so guru Gobind Singh ji challenged them and told them to make a devi appear before them, no devi appeared before them! So even before Guru ji before them in physical form, they still believed in idols and superstitions. 

 

 

[intrigued 473]

I think we can especially in the west. I don't know a lot of ppl here in the US who do idolatry. maybe in the UK you guys have a lot or maybe my perception is skewed cause the sangat that im with doesn't do it.

7 minutes ago, puzzled said:

The Gurdwara in my dads pind is open during the morning and then they lock it up till 6pm for Rehras Sahib and then lock it again till the next morning! Why? because no one is interested.

They do that here too  I wish they didnt but the majority of ppl come on sunday. they keep it open tho on weekdays

[NaamTiharoJoJape 91]

44 minutes ago, intrigued said:

I think we can especially in the west. I don't know a lot of ppl here in the US who do idolatry. maybe in the UK you guys have a lot or maybe my perception is skewed cause the sangat that im with doesn't do it.

They do that here too  I wish they didnt but the majority of ppl come on sunday. they keep it open tho on weekdays

last time I went to India I was rudely shoved outside of the gurudwara after ardaas 

he was a mona, and the way he was behaving he seemed like son of the paathi

wonder what happens to others in the village if anyone even goes there anymore

 

 

as far as idolaltry goes, people do tuf around and in front of guru sahib's pictures and do matha tek to them here in West

i cringe when parents tell little children to do matha tek to pictures of chaar sahibzaadey or guru sahib 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 91]

21 minutes ago, puzzled said:

Been thinking about this for some time now. Can Indians, including Sikhs, ever get past idolatry?

I've been India/Punjab several times, and they are idolaters, that's the culture and the way of life in that country. They worship statues, ancestral tombs, graves, animals, trees/plants, humans, everything!

People from Sikh backgrounds are mainly idolaters as well. 

The Gurdwara in my dads pind is open during the morning and then they lock it up till 6pm for Rehras Sahib and then lock it again till the next morning! Why? because no one is interested.

On the other hand the local jaggas/tombs etc are always busy. Where my parents are from the busiest religious place is a tomb. If you go to this tomb on a Sunday then you have to stand in the queue for at least half an hour! that's how busy it is. Visit a Gurdwara on Sunday, no one there! 

Its as if people in that country, including Sikhs, need something in front of them to worship, an idol, tree, human, they just need something there. Sitting there and doing simran, does not satisfy them! 

For some idols are not enough so they become a member of a dera! and the baba becomes a living idol! 

Because of my families beliefs in India, I've bowed down to very strange looking idols, Muslims graves, Tree/plants, and goats and so many other things! 

Can Indians ever get past idolatry? its very much part of the culture and everyday life there, it has been for 1000s of years, Its deeply imbedded in them. 

Separating Indians and idolatry is like separating sand from salt! 

It reminds of the sakhi of when many people became Singhs but they continued believing in superstitions and idols, so guru Gobind Singh ji challenged them and told them to make a devi appear before them, no devi appeared before them! So even before Guru ji before them in physical form, they still believed in idols and superstitions. 

 

 

waheguru ji 

I have a question if anyone can clear my doubts on shastar puja being similar to idolatry 

 

[puzzled 3,828]

36 minutes ago, intrigued said:

I think we can especially in the west. I don't know a lot of ppl here in the US who do idolatry. maybe in the UK you guys have a lot or maybe my perception is skewed cause the sangat that im with doesn't do it.

They do that here too  I wish they didnt but the majority of ppl come on sunday. they keep it open tho on weekdays

What do you mean? they lock Gurdware in the US ? 

They do that in India and its so saddening to see that. 

[intrigued 473]

1 minute ago, puzzled said:

What do you mean? they lock Gurdware in the US ? 

Yea but only at night

[puzzled 3,828]

29 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

last time I went to India I was rudely shoved outside of the gurudwara after ardaas 

he was a mona, and the way he was behaving he seemed like son of the paathi

 

as far as idolaltry goes, people do tuf around and in front of guru sahib's pictures and do matha tek to them here in West

i cringe when parents tell little children to do matha tek to pictures of chaar sahibzaadey or guru sahib 

yeah I was raised doing tuf around Guru jis paintings  

But yeah, that's the thing, they just need an object in front of them to worship!  they just can't go with out it.

 

[puzzled 3,828]

1 minute ago, intrigued said:

Yea but only at night

Oh Ok, they do that here too, but I guess they have too lock it at night.  But in Punjab they lock it up throughout most of the day other than in the morning or afternoon.

 

[intrigued 473]

1 minute ago, puzzled said:

Oh Ok, they do that here too, but I guess they have too lock it at night.  But in Punjab they lock it up throughout most of the day other than in the morning or afternoon.

Oh wow...

[NaamTiharoJoJape 91]

2 minutes ago, puzzled said:

yeah I was raised doing tuf around Guru jis paintings  

But yeah, that's the thing, they just need an object in front of them to worship!  they just can't go with out it.

 

yeah, every rakhri i still get in arguments lmaoo

i stopped doing matha tek of pictures when i gained some surt around age 12

[puzzled 3,828]

29 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

waheguru ji 

I have a question if anyone can clear my doubts on shastar puja being similar to idolatry 

 

How I see it is, that when they worship idols, trees, animals, graves etc   they pray to it, so they ask it to answer their prayers. Like they go to a grave and ask the grave to answer their prayers and if the person buried under the grave answers their prayers they buy a green sheet and cover the grave with the sheet.

But with Shastar Puja, from my understanding, they aren't asking the shastars to answer their prayers, neither do they pray to them, or ask them for guidance. 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 91]

5 minutes ago, puzzled said:

How I see it is, that when they worship idols, trees, animals, graves etc   they pray to it, so they ask it to answer their prayers. Like they go to a grave and ask the grave to answer their prayers and if the person buried under the grave answers their prayers they buy a green sheet and cover the grave with the sheet.

But with Shastar Puja, from my understanding, they aren't asking the shastars to answer their prayers, neither do they pray to them, or ask them for guidance. 

so more close to token of respect as we touch the feet of a mahapurkh 

or do shastar namaskaar

either way, shastar are our saints as well 

so would you say sgpc was wrong to "ban" it 

also I request anyone to come to the baba sahib singh thread, I am trying to learn more about nihangs and traditionalists 

[puzzled 3,828]

2 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

so more close to token of respect as we touch the feet of a mahapurkh 

or do shastar namaskaar

either way, shastar are our saints as well 

so would you say sgpc was wrong to "ban" it 

Yeah, but that's just my limited understanding of it, perhaps someone who knows more about shastar puja can answer.

Dusherra was celebrated in the Sikh empire. They would do shastar and cannon puja, extra charity, and then mock fighting, where one Singh would dress as Raavan and the other dress like Raam. 

 

[puzzled 3,828]

10 minutes ago, NaamTiharoJoJape said:

yeah, every rakhri i still get in arguments lmaoo

i stopped doing matha tek of pictures when i gained some surt around age 12

I worshiped the paintings till I was around 14 lol    

Yeah I stopped rakhri too, my parents still get upset about it, but i don't feel comfortable wearing sparkly and colourful strings around my wrist! 

[NaamTiharoJoJape 91]

4 minutes ago, puzzled said:

I worshiped the paintings till I was around 14 lol    

Yeah I stopped rakhri too, my parents still get upset about it, but i don't feel comfortable wearing sparkly and colourful strings around my wrist! 

I still grudingly  have to do rakhri since I am an adolescent, but I take it off in a matter of 2 hours 

I honestly don't criticize anyone else practicing it, but I just want people to stop forcing me 

I dont rok tok others, just the annoying part is "bibi nanaki tied rakhri on guru nanak"

maybe Ill draw a picture of guru nanak in santa's sled helping him handout presents

plus isnt there a picture of guru sahiban worshipping gau mata by rss etc. 

as long as misinformation isn't spread and culture/religion are kept seperate, I dont care what people do