Chaupa Singh rahit: Sikh from a bad background and an unruly selfish Sikh

[dallysingh101]

[MisterrSingh]

The Brahmin Supremacy manifesto, lol.

[dallysingh101]

5 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

The Brahmin Supremacy manifesto, lol.

Care to elaborate? 

[MisterrSingh]

16 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Care to elaborate? 

I assume you've read the rehatnama? It seems to have an uncomfortable heavy bias in favour of Brahmin culture and those who originate from Brahmin backgrounds.

It's one thing for village nobodies to self-aggrandise themselves and their particular castes and backgrounds for secular advancement and perks, but for an author to emerge and claim his work is a divinely inspired order when it repeatedly contradicts the fundamental values of the religion he supposedly belongs to is taking the pi55.

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, MisterrSingh said:

I assume you've read the rehatnama? It seems to have an uncomfortable heavy bias in favour of Brahmin culture and those who originate from Brahmin backgrounds.

It's one thing for village nobodies to self-aggrandise themselves and their particular castes and backgrounds for secular advancement and perks, but for an author to emerge and claim his work is a divinely inspired order when it repeatedly contradicts the fundamental values of the religion he supposedly belongs to is taking the pi55.

Have you read it properly? 

It's no different to Rattan Singh Bhangu bigging up juts here and there in his work.   Overall though, it's a fascinating and study worthy document. 

I hope you're not someone who learns most of your heritage from Macauliffe and other colonial era works. lol 

Read it again, and take a fresh look. The pro-Brahmin bits are small and obvious, there's a lot more to it than that.   

[MisterrSingh]

15 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Read it again, and take a fresh look. The pro-Brahmin bits are small and obvious, there's a lot more to it than that.   

These pro-Brahmin bits undermine the entire premise of the thing. You can't pick and choose what bits to follow and what bits to ignore. It's not the Quran, lol.

If you're looking at it purely from an academic perspective as a quasi-piece of literature, then fair play, but if it's something to be adhered to with sincerity, then no chance.

There's also the possibility it IS accurate, which would suggest the Sikh teachings and thoughts of Guru Gobind Singh differ from the ethos and spirit of egaliterianism of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and accordingly we've been sold an inaccurate approximation of the Sikh faith. That opens up an entirely different can of worms.

[dallysingh101]

47 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

These pro-Brahmin bits undermine the entire premise of the thing. You can't pick and choose what bits to follow and what bits to ignore. It's not the Quran, lol.

No man, maybe they are the voice of someone concerned with losing long held status and power. When you look at them as part of the whole, they don't seem as dramatic as just singling them out for a decontextualised ponder. I think these things stem from inner conflict, the writers often have an obvious affinity for and connection with Sikhi but are worried about the social change taking place on a personal, familial level.    

 

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If you're looking at it purely from an academic perspective as a quasi-piece of literature, then fair play, but if it's something to be adhered to with sincerity, then no chance.

I think parts of such manuscripts can really help shed historical light on the early Khalsa in a variety of ways. And that disjuncture and mental anguish between the old and new ways is apparent within too. They also show that on certain points, there wasn't 100% consensus between the panth (like meat eating for instance). Evidence doesn't seem to point at one fixed rahit being pushed on all the panth. Rahits are simply interpretations of a way of life, and some biases can come in when they are being written, many parts will however reflect Gurmat and early Khalsa thinking/culture.

 

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There's also the possibility it IS accurate, which would suggest the Sikh teachings and thoughts of Guru Gobind Singh differ from the ethos and spirit of egaliterianism of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and accordingly we've been sold an inaccurate approximation of the Sikh faith. That opens up an entirely different can of worms.

I think a lot of us post-annexation children were definitely exposed to politically motivated 'approximations' like 'Sikhism' but clearly there is now a global movement by many intelligent Sikhs in the diaspora to explore the unadulterated heritage, and try and see without the anglofied, protestant tinted glasses. I don't think that's about to turn us into Hindoos anytime soon, and the fear of that should be attenuated by now at least.   I think the use of the Gurmukhi script alone helps prevent that. Kneej erk reactions to changing social circumstances within texts should be easy and quick to identify, that doesn't remotely take anything away from the irrefutable egalitarian nature of Sikhi.  

It don't seem that complicated to me?

 

Plus I meet people from cultures that don't have a remarkable linguistic and written cultural heritage as us (that survived despite sustained determined attacks), so you know, we're lucky to have them to read and study in my opinion. They ain't Gurbani, but they are still valuable and fascinating.

Here's another interesting bit on weaponised Sikhs:

[MisterrSingh]

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

It don't seem that complicated to me?

You aren't representative of the people in the quom for whom these rehatnamas are more relevant to their daily practice of Sikhi than even the Mool Mantar, lol. Literal-minded individuals who isolate certain aspects of such writings because they confirm certain of their pre-existing biases that they feel unable to relinquish, and then because they're unable to sift through the text and judge its validity, they accept it wholesale, even the things that contradict the fundamentals of the religion they profess to adore and follow!

 

2 hours ago, dallysingh101 said:

Plus I meet people from cultures that don't have a remarkable linguistic and written cultural heritage as us (that survived despite sustained determined attacks), so you know, we're lucky to have them to read and study in my opinion. They ain't Gurbani, but they are still valuable and fascinating.

They aren't Gurbani for you, but for some it's pretty darn close.

Anyone who's listened to a reading of Guru Granth Sahib Ji from start to finish can't avoid the almost start-to-finish commentary on Brahmin society and its injustices. To go from that to this so-called rehatnama and not be even slightly concerned at the disparity in philosophy is astounding.

This is the same Chaupa Singh who said he wrote this document in the presence of Guru Ji (or was it that he had darshan of Guru Sahib who imparted this document to him? I can't recall)?

[dallysingh101]

2 minutes ago, MisterrSingh said:

You aren't representative of the people in the quom for whom these rehatnamas are more relevant to their daily practice of Sikhi than even the Mool Mantar, lol. Literal-minded individuals who isolate certain aspects of such writings because they confirm certain of their pre-existing biases that they feel unable to relinquish, and then because they're unable to sift through the text and judge its validity, they accept it wholesale, even the things that contradict the fundamentals of the religion they profess to adore and follow!

 

They aren't Gurbani for you, but for some it's pretty darn close.

Anyone who's listened to a reading of Guru Granth Sahib Ji from start to finish can't avoid the almost start-to-finish commentary on Brahmin society and its injustices. To go from that to this so-called rehatnama and not be even slightly concerned at the disparity in philosophy is astounding.

 

We've put brakes on and catered to the simpleminded enough now. We can't keep doing that. They or their offspring will have to catch up when they are destined to.  

 

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This is the same Chaupa Singh who said he wrote this document in the presence of Guru Ji (or was it that he had darshan of Guru Sahib who imparted this document to him? I can't recall)?

I don't recall this, but there was someone by that name closely associated with the darbar for many generations, so they may have witnessed a bunch of stuff. 

Exploring the Chaupa Singh rahit isn't some back road to subordinating ourselves to Bahmunhs you know! lol 

[MisterrSingh]

Just now, dallysingh101 said:

Exploring the Chaupa Singh rahit isn't some back road to subordinating ourselves to Bahmunhs you know! lol 

Objectively, it's fascinating reading, lol. Honestly, I do enjoy reading it. But to sincerely follow its edicts to the letter? Nah, it ain't kosher in my opinion.