Debating the Dasam Granth by Robin Rinehart

[dallysingh101]

I have to say, as someone who has tried to translate stuff in the past, I did think her translations of the Chandi narratives were impressive.  

[dallysingh101]

1 minute ago, BhForce said:

Could you just put the link here?

The Google Books link just leads to a preview (which shows only footnotes and not the body of the book).

This site doesn't allow you to upload books like that, that's why you have to get it from the other one. It has the complete work now. 

[BhForce]

2 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

This site doesn't allow you to upload books like that, that's why you have to get it from the other one. It has the complete work now. 

Do you have to create a log in for it to be visible?

[BhForce]

10 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

I'm super suspicious of western works myself, but I read this, and I think it was spot on.

I think a lot of us have been through the "oh, look, a Westerner acknowledges Sikhism!" stage.

Where I am now, I don't care to "make another Macauliffe", so to speak. That's the origin of McLeod. Sikhs thought he'd be another expositor of Sikhism to the gore.

All these Orientalists can't exist with the "native informer". The native informer is the guy on the inside who gives information to the gora, which uses to colonialize us, defeat us, or write books about us.

Things could change, but at this point I don't think I really care if goray think we're a violent "warrior religion" a ala Kim Bolan (racist reporter for the Vancouver Sun) or are sympathetic like Christopher Shackle.

In fact, I think I might prefer goray think we're unhinged (even though we're not).
 

[BhForce]

From the Amazon summary:

"The Dasam Granth is a 1,428-page anthology of diverse compositions attributed to the tenth Guru of Sikhism, Guru Gobind Singh, and a topic of great controversy among Sikhs. The controversy stems from two major issues: a substantial portion of the Dasam Granth relates tales from Hindu mythology, suggesting a disconnect from normative Sikh theology; and a long composition entitled Charitropakhian tells several hundred rather graphic stories about illicit liaisons between men and women."

So here's a question: Why in the world would an average gora care about this arcane aspect of a minority foreign religion? He wouldn't. 

It would be like some weird debate about the various branches of Buddhism.

So I see that the only reason this could be published is because of funding from university grants organizations and university presses, which publish these sorts of things for basically the exclusive customer base of other college libraries.

This makes me think that "they" (the university industrial complex which produced McLeod) could just as easily produce anti-DG and also anti-Guru Granth Sahib ji works.

Which is why I want them to stay out

 

[BhForce]

On 1/27/2023 at 10:04 AM, dallysingh101 said:

I've been reading this for the last few days. I think it's a really good study, and quite stimulating to read. I recommend it for everyone. 

(Don't take any of my rants as an attack on you. They are attacks on the Orientalists.)

I would love to see one of us produce a study on "Sikh Studies professors". Just like they love to study us as weird, exotic, irrational creatures, I'd love to see them portrayed for the ego-maniac, backstabbing grant-hoggers that they are.

[dallysingh101]

10 minutes ago, BhForce said:

I think a lot of us have been through the "oh, look, a Westerner acknowledges Sikhism!" stage.

Where I am now, I don't care to "make another Macauliffe", so to speak. That's the origin of McLeod. Sikhs thought he'd be another expositor of Sikhism to the gore.

All these Orientalists can't exist with the "native informer". The native informer is the guy on the inside who gives information to the gora, which uses to colonialize us, defeat us, or write books about us.

Things could change, but at this point I don't think I really care if goray think we're a violent "warrior religion" a ala Kim Bolan (racist reporter for the Vancouver Sun) or are sympathetic like Christopher Shackle.

In fact, I think I might prefer goray think we're unhinged (even though we're not).
 

I hear you 100%! 

I loathe Mcleod's work, I think even most of the Singh Sabha era literature has been infected with that orientalist mindset internally.

I read this work with a hawkish attitude because of my previous experiences with 'Sikhism' texts (of which I've read many and grew up on), and was pleasantly surprised at its balance. I think it has a lot of merits. It's a textual analysis that attempts to actual contextualise and grasp the underlying message behind various works within. 

For the record, whilst I applaud and value Shackle's contributions for their linguistic usefulness, I think he himself hasn't been able to shake off that orientalist mindset. To him the Singh Sabha era was a renaissance period - to me it was a hardcore colonial subordinate compromise. 

[dallysingh101]

Some people are interested in literature and what it can tell us in terms of concepts and ithihaas and the cultures the works emanate from. She seems to be genuine based on what I read therein? 

 

[dallysingh101]

12 minutes ago, BhForce said:

(Don't take any of my rants as an attack on you. They are attacks on the Orientalists.)

I would love to see one of us produce a study on "Sikh Studies professors". Just like they love to study us as weird, exotic, irrational creatures, I'd love to see them portrayed for the ego-maniac, backstabbing grant-hoggers that they are.

Some of this has been done:

https://www.discoversikhism.com/sikh_library/english/psychoanalysis_of_dr_w_h_mcleod.html

[BhForce]

3 minutes ago, dallysingh101 said:

Some of this has been done:

https://www.discoversikhism.com/sikh_library/english/psychoanalysis_of_dr_w_h_mcleod.html

Interesting. Thanks. 

Isn't the author JS Mann a hardcore anti-Dasam?

Even if he his, that's fine. I think the anti-Dasam crowd has done good work in the anti-McLeod field.

One of the reasons I say I'd rather fight it out with Sikh brothers is because I don't think the Missionary nonsense is permanent. There's something called reversion to norm.

A cranky Uncleji might be anti-Dasam, and going on and on about this Charitar or that section of Chandi until his family and relatives get bored, but the pursuing generations will just go right back to matha-teking to Guru Granth Sahib ji, and visiting the "dreaded" Hazur Sahib and reading Chaupai Sahib.